• Games Workshop woes

    Pre-tax profit for the six months to 27 November sank to £0.1m from £7.7m a year earlier on revenue down to £57.1m from £71m in 2004. Puts blame on Lord of the Rings.

    http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareNews.asp?S...=games_worksho
    Comments 148 Comments
    1. frenchkid's Avatar
      frenchkid -
      The easy way to see the effect of the LoTR sells would be to compare those stats with the stats of the year before LoTR started.
      As for GW, I whent into my store yeasterday, and even though I definetly didn\'t feel like staying in there any longer then I had too, it was packed full of people buying. So I don\'t see why they shouldn\'t increase prices if people are still buying, that what all buisnesses do. And I\'m not even going to try to explain what GW should or should not do, because in my opinion the people runing it are much more knowledgable about there entreprise then I am and they definetly know much more about finance then me.
    1. Modderrhu's Avatar
      Modderrhu -
      Well, the rebuttal post started as an yet another anti-GW flame, but brought up some good points.
      And when they say they don\'t have anything to sell you, they mean for the next 3 to 4 years. GW simply does not want your business if you\'re an [insert army not on the soon to get redone list] player. This is, by FAR, the biggest problem GW has. Every other game company has a method to continue to produce revenue from existing customers. GW does not, or rather it doesn\'t have a particularly effective one. Once you buy an army, they have nothing to sell you unless you want a different army.
      This is the big one for me. I wanted a Wood Elf army, and the redo was due - overdue. Everyone got excited at the prospect of the Wood Elves being next, and what did GW do? To the utter dismay, horror and anger, of many players? A new army - the Ogre Kingdoms. Well, that was the best way to alienate a whole lot of existing customers, now wasn\'t it? Screw over the existing customers. I never did buy that Wood Elf army, and never will. In fact, it allowed me to broaden my search for a new fix, and I found a shop that sold Rackham, Warmachine, and a whole bunch of other manufacturers. I\'ve got Dark Elves and Tomb Kings, and I don\'t want any more of GW\'s armies, except for maybe Brettonians.

      Since they did Dark Elves, a long time ago, they\'ve brought out exactly one new thing - the Manflayers. And even then, you only buy one unit, never more. I\'ve also got some Tomb Kings, which have had nothing new since their release.

      I have been buying some Necromunda minis, but that\'ll be nowhere near the money they\'d have had from me if I had bought a new Wood Elf army.
      Or it could be this LotR bologna they\'re feeding their investors.
      I don\'t think it\'s bologna. I think GW invested in a line that truly had a limited life-span. LotR minis have been around for many, many years. They\'re only popular now because of the impetus GW put into a new line of LotR minis, and even that is riding on the back of the films. Well, the films are over, they\'re history, and are unlikely to produce new customers for GW. This is quite the opposite of the previous quote.

      It\'s funny, GW are continuing to produce new LotR stuff, for whom they only have an existing customer base. Yet they don\'t provide the same to the customers that got them where they are today.

      They\'ve been betting on the wrong horse, and that IMO is where they\'ve gone so horribly, horribly wrong.
      Originally posted by frenchkid
      ...in my opinion the people runing it are much more knowledgable about there entreprise then I am and they definetly know much more about finance then me.
      And right you are! That\'s why I say nothing about their price increases, or anything like that. But since we are a part of GW\'s potential market, we can definitely talk about customer alientation.

      By the way, DRINK!!!.
    1. bayrodney's Avatar
      bayrodney -
      @Modderrhu:
      From your post i have realised
      - Ogre Kingdoms, Was a mistake
      - LOTR should have been produced and sold in another direction (ifyou know what i mean)
      - There should be an order in which armies are released, not the \'drawn from a hat technique\'

      @FrenchKid: I often go to GW and can hardly move my self through the store because of the amount of customers, but i notice one thing, they are all very familiar faces, Every so often i will see the odd \"newbie\" come into the store, play a tutorial game with the staff, which is all well and good, but 9/10 of the times, those \"newbie\'s\" are one off, unlike a few years ago where at least half of them would return (I for one) Have GW lost \'their Touch\' with new customers??



      And another point, in my opinion, If GW lowered their prices, in the Long Run they would gain more money, not everyone has the money.....
      Sorry for the 10000th GW Rant, but it wouldnt be a Forum if we didnt Rant :P
    1. Spacemunkie's Avatar
      Spacemunkie -
      GW are in the shit big style. 6 monthly profit of 119k? When your turnover is 57 million, that\'s pretty desperate. Their huge chain of shops will throttle them if you ask me.

      Rackham\'s profits have doubled in the same period, and apparently PP\'s have quadrupled. Flames of War has taken off massively as well. The truth is that GW are suffering from a combination of their own ineptitude, price hikes and competition. It\'s no coincidence that their turnover has dropped 20% from around the time that they whacked all their prices up either!

      I\'m sure Tom Kirby doesn\'t give a shit. He\'s lined his pockets for the last decade and can pass on a blackened husk of a company with a smile on his face.
    1. bayrodney's Avatar
      bayrodney -
      Originally posted by Spacemunkie


      I\'m sure Tom Kirby doesn\'t give a shit. He\'s lined his pockets for the last decade and can pass on a blackened husk of a company with a smile on his face.
      He\'ll Just leave when he realises he is losing money from his OWN pockets, not the buisness\' :P
    1. Ebonbuddha's Avatar
      Ebonbuddha -
      It doesn\'t surprise me that this is happening. People will not be duped forever.

      Here is a thought; GW has succeeded in roasting their own nads. Now that this has happened, will the other manufacturers who raised their price and following GW\'s lead now start giving more discounts and perks for their customers or are the manufacturers just lemmings going over a cliff?
    1. Trevor's Avatar
      Trevor -
      I\'m not into the GW bashing. I think their current woes are easily explained by

      1) LOTR bubble - burst.
      2) Comparative expense. Its much cheaper to start many other games, and often the minis are cheaper. Where they are not cheaper, they tend to be better looking (just look at the beautifully painted and well sculpted rackham unit minis).
      3) Competition. I know when I started I really didn\'t like the look of Grenadier and Ral Partha, GW just looked waaay better. Now there are a number of companies churning out as good or better looking minis, not to mention the smaller guys like Hasselfree, Spyglass etc. This is hurting both the mass gamer and single mini painter markets. Before I\'d by a GW for display, now I\'m more likely to go with one of those smaller companies, they offer things I simply can\'t get at GW.



      They will still sell LOTR stuff, but not at anything like the lvl they did during the films. A hardcore will continue to buy their new LOTR product, but it will be much smaller base.

      I still think GW are churning out some of the best looking minis they have done in ages, and their plastics are great, but there is so much more competetion now.

      I think they need to promote a more tiered approach, offer everything from skirmish to battle and spread the support around a bit, rather than spamming dwarfs for 3 months then forgetting about them for 4 years.

      Still I don;t think GW are going anywhere, but they could do with changing their attitude a bit, lets see more support gamers and less buisness crap*.


      * I\'m thinking about the push back in the late 90\'s by the suits to stop gaming in store ... I mean how bad a grasp of your customers does that show?
    1. Ritual's Avatar
      Ritual -
      Originally posted by Spacemunkie
      I\'m sure Tom Kirby doesn\'t give a shit. He\'s lined his pockets for the last decade and can pass on a blackened husk of a company with a smile on his face.
      That\'s the problem with the type of people that become CEOs nowadays. They are recruited from a group of \'professional\' CEOs. They don\'t have any interest in the companies they run! They run a company for a year or two and then they move on... No matter how badly they do their job they always get new ones, because they have friends and people just like themselves all over.

      And to respond to Arthur\'s claim that these people know so much about finance... Yes, in a way they do... They know a lot about stock market value and that\'s what they have in focus. They use the current stock market value as a guage of how well the company\'s doing and the share holders demand a good value. But strategies to uphold a good current stock market value can be, and often are, contra-productive in the long run. This is something these people don\'t seem to know, or at least don\'t care about. But, since they probably run another company in a couple of years, maybe they feel it\'s unimportant.
    1. bayrodney's Avatar
      bayrodney -
      Originally posted by Trevor

      * I\'m thinking about the push back in the late 90\'s by the suits to stop gaming in store ... I mean how bad a grasp of your customers does that show?
      Whats this??
      Did GW attempt to stop gaming in stores?
    1. Infidel Castro's Avatar
      Infidel Castro -
      For my money the firm has lost all personality. Plain and simple. Apart from some of the second-string games (Necromunda, Mordheim) there is no marker to show what or who they are any more. The humour used to be fantastic and there were lines of interesting figures for Talisman, WHFRP and what have you. All you have now is limited choice and even more limited fun.
    1. bayrodney's Avatar
      bayrodney -
      Originally posted by reverend
      All you have now is limited choice and even more limited fun.
      I don\'t think you have \'limited choices\' as such
      more like...To many choices
      But thats not a good thing.
      They are all the same, just different colours or background.
      The limited fun is coming from the small amount of \'range\' in the way the customers collect. People dont want old, weak models. People like the new stuff, and GW re-do their armies on Popularity, so you will see the same armies all the time. if GW had a lesser choice of the armies but more variety between them that would attract people collecting different armies, provoking more fun.

      - If that makes sense
    1. Infidel Castro's Avatar
      Infidel Castro -
      I\'m saying that the limitation to only wargames and skirmish stuff is what puts off people like me. I want character, one-offs, situation pieces, individuals made for no other reason than collecting to paint. A human rat-catcher, a dwarf bounty-hunter, a goblin thief...silly fun stuff. It\'s all about shifting large units, volume rather uniqueness. I\'d rather trawl ebay for an old classic than pick up what looks like a generic army piece. That\'s why I hate going to GW.
    1. bayrodney's Avatar
      bayrodney -
      Ok, Sorry didnt understand what you ment before. now i do!
      I agree with you Rev, i love seeing the one off Rackham mini\'s. GW should release more of their \'limited edition\' models, i loved the Archaon model, The limited edition Space marine models with your GD entry, these should be released more. You dont see these models on the table, but you will find them in a lot of customers Cases

      They are great models

      More, More, More...Please?
    1. Infidel Castro's Avatar
      Infidel Castro -
      Limited edition = reason to hike prices even higher up the scale.

      A pack of 5 Ratling Snipers cost me £6. Two Space Marine Veterans cost me £7. What a con! Those were some of the more interesting pieces to my mind though.
    1. bayrodney's Avatar
      bayrodney -
      Originally posted by reverend
      Limited edition = reason to hike prices even higher up the scale.

      A pack of 5 Ratling Snipers cost me £6. Two Space Marine Veterans cost me £7. What a con! Those were some of the more interesting pieces to my mind though.
      Everybody likes them though...
    1. Ritual's Avatar
      Ritual -
      Originally posted by bayrodney
      Everybody likes them though...
      Ehh... No!
    1. bayrodney's Avatar
      bayrodney -
      Originally posted by Ritual
      Originally posted by bayrodney
      Everybody likes them though...
      Ehh... No!
      Haha, lol
      I was just waiting for the first of many to reply with the big \"N-O\"
      :P
    1. Swordwind's Avatar
      Swordwind -
      As much as everyone says they hate GW, how high thier prices are etc etc etc but if it was announced tomorrow that Games Workshop had shutdown, everyone would mourn.

      I personally would get my hands on as many sprues of Space Marines as I could get and cast them myself
    1. bayrodney's Avatar
      bayrodney -
      @Swordwind:I for one love GW, i would be terrified if they left!

      I am sad to hear about the loss of money

      Although, there just a bit....Dumb?
    1. Modderrhu's Avatar
      Modderrhu -
      Originally posted by reverend
      I want character, one-offs, situation pieces, individuals made for no other reason than collecting to paint.
      Inquisitor. I\'m eye-balling one or two of those 54mm minis. If I\'ll ever paint them is a good question with a dubious answer. lol
      Originally posted by Swordwind
      As much as everyone says they hate GW, how high thier prices are etc etc etc but if it was announced tomorrow that Games Workshop had shutdown, everyone would mourn.
      Oh, I don\'t hate GW. But I still think they\'ve been very foolish. Hoisted by their own petards, so to speak. And yes, I would mourn GW\'s demise, we would lose many really great minis unless another manufacturer got hold of the moulds. I don\'t care too much about who makes the minis I want.
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