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No, because it *was* targeted it just was not affected.

RAW means "rules as written."

As long as there's enough room, sure. Why wouldn't you be able to?

It shouldn't matter whose turn it is.

Uh, no. I TO tournaments and don't use that poster as a resource.

I want a game dev to answer questions too. That's the whole point of this thread lol.

Nah, they'll just get mad at you for nitpicking and daring to ask that question.

This is interesting because the rulebook doesn't imply alternating ability orders at all. A good candidate for an FAQ.

In English this would technically be ambiguous but I'm pretty confident that it has to be enemy.

Rules exist to be nitpicked; in a few cases, they just don't work as written. I get it that you're very interested in the social hierarchy of designers=>community middlemen=>lumpen masses, with the...

Nobody official's answering rules questions here, we've had silence from CMON on this game for a while, Michael and Fabio haven't communicated in 6 months. I emailed CMON asking them who was...

They're definitely lost. Use the app, it's got the updated versions.

Which is tricky, because in previous iterations of the rules they said you could do it in either order. And it's very relevant in some NCU's case - Melisandre, for example.

Yes, I understand that nobody plays it that way, which is a problem, because we don't know how the designers intended it to work with effects like Catelyn's influence. If you point out that the...

It triggers field control *and* Caitlyn's influence. They both have the timing of "when a zone is claimed", and the active player's effects go first.

Except Field Control's resolution itself is a "when this zone is claimed" trigger. So if we assume that Influence, the Maneuever Zone, and Field control all have the same trigger, then the active...

Rules as written, it depends on the order. When you check the scenario rule, it checks to see how many corpse piles are out, and if there's too many, whether from Remorseless Examples or itself, they...

The issue is that Field Control doesn't even work as written, so we have to double-check everything involving it.

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I would say that a destroyed unit, by implication, has lost all of its ranks - otherwise it wouldn't be destroyed.


Shield Wall only works when you're being attacked, and only blocks...

Despite the fact that orders are formatted the exact same way as Tactics Cards, they do not follow the same targeting rules, which is very confusing. Yes, Quick Fire does not target the charging unit...

Page 17 of the rules lays out the attack sequence. Any ability, like Sentinel, that triggers "after a unit has been attacked" triggers during the "Attack Completed" step. So it is after the panic...

Assuming that we muddle our way through Field Control's tortuous wording and assume that it works, is there any reason why it wouldn't completely negate the new Robb's ability? You can only use it...

Why would you think that? The rulebook uses the language "when you claim the zone" for the effect of the zone itself too.

Can Catelyn Stark resolve her Influence after the effects of the Maneuver (horse) zone to remove the Weakened token imposed by Field Control?

Yes and it's off the fucking chain. Hope you have auto wounds or can deal more than 6 hits.

So yeah, if you have war cry from multiple sources you can target an enemy unit with it more than once, from both your units with war cry. Why wouldn't you be able to?

Now, if you have a unit with...

I mean I blame Asmodee, but to each their own.

Could you give an example? Because it depends on what you mean by "affected" and "sources."

Player A's "after retreat" action. The Retreat is entirely contained within resolving Player A's original "after an attack is resolved" trigger. Once the retreat is entirely resolved (including...

Correct. You could use Sacrifice for the Cause immediately after your opponent plays Coordination Tactics, though, before they resolve it.

Incorrect. By the time Coordination Tactics resolves, the "start of turn" trigger has already passed. It provides a specific exception for Orders on Coordination Tactics, but Sabotage and Subvert is...

It's a grey area, and it'd be nice to get some confirmation on it, but my take would be it doesn't work because you can't remove the model in question. The "Camp Followers" ability would still...

Whoops, yup, was confusing it for the NCU. Yeah, it will copy.

Influence abilities are not copied by Coordination Tactics. They're not an ability on the unit.

EDIT: this is not relevant to this case.

Doesn't apply in this case.

Or a Targ player could use it when they claim a zone. I might see it happen.

Honestly that card is too powerful anyway.

My point is that it's CMON overall who bears the responsibility, not anyone community-facing.

I don't think CMON is paying the designers enough to take the time. I actually support that - I wouldn't want them doing work for free.

I was aware of those but was ignoring them for simplicity's sake. But yes, that would be more reasonable than the current BS we have now.

No, because they have the same name for the keyword (Horrific). There's a tactics card that creates special corpse piles that I think the Weeper and a version of Dany has. Those corpse piles have a...

That's exactly what we're saying. The card is written wrong.

Incorrect. Endless Horde and the zone itself have the same trigger ("when a zone is claimed"), so they both resolve before Field Control does.

If things were as you described Influence effects...

So, what? You're not being clear, unfortunately.

The answer is 1. You can only use each ability once per trigger. And at that point Selyse & Shireen cannot save them.

Remember that morale tests are not panic tests, but panic tests are a subset of morale tests. If you fail a morale test, you're not destroyed; the destruction is still the original impetus.

The "if any" is probably superfluous, but it's a matter of the designers twisting the rules to make things like NW crossbows overpowered with their order in the last revision, and the consequences...

The player playing the card. They control the effect.

Yes. But keep in mind any effect which does wounds (Precision etc) will just deal a wound to them.

I'd like clarification here too.

That's a great question we could use an answer to.

Wasn't resolved in the latest update. Bumping for visibility.

The issue is that at the time the trigger happens, the unit is off the board, and therefore isn't within long range.

RAW it doesn't work.

As long as, when your turn starts, your opponent still has unactivated units, yes.

Wrong. It's in the rulebook. All orders are considered to target the unit they originate from.

Nah, when a unit attacks you still have to resolve all triggers, like Horrific Visage.

Yes, you can stop the unit's own order with it.

Yeah that's not clear at all. It could use a clarification.

The latter. For the same reason that if you play What is Dead May Never Die on a unit when it dies from damage it can still die from panic.

Another one is Mag the Mighty's on death effect vs. Horrific Visage.

Alisser, I definitely disagree with your take.

The rulebook agrees with me and not you.

What the title says. Not being able to use Final Strike and similar effects when a tray is wiped sits pretty poorly with every new player I've seen.

That's all well and good, but the effect of the zone itself resolves before Field Control does, but can be resolved after the active player's replacement effects.

You've got the timing overall...

I agree with your "replace a zone twice" statement, but the problem is that the actual zone resolves before Field Control does. You resolve all of the active player's "when a zone is claimed"...

I appreciate the thought but that doesn't match up with how we know the zone is supposed to be resolved.

As of the current update, I am seeing two bugs/problems:

1. For each faction, one of their commanders is not showing up in the "tactics cards" menu. I've confirmed this for Free Folk and Bara at...

You said the exact opposite on your last post. What are you getting at?

No, if the attacker isn't engaged with the defender at that point, they cannot receive hits. It's part of why this card is written improperly - if the defender is killed by the attack, they cannot...

And just to elaborate here, when you follow the resolution of effects in order, like we're told to in a bunch of other rules sources, the effect just doesn't work. How do you think players should...

The two strongest commanders for Lannisters are Roose and Tyrion, from the largest set of player data we have.

If it's not in the rulebook you can't expect players to play it that way. Different people's "common sense" may mean different things, and usually amounts to players trying to force their...

Aight, whatever, you clearly don't understand what I'm saying.

They used the word "targeted" in OP.

As I mentioned, and this is in the rulebook, anybody mentioned in the bolded trigger section of the card is considered targeted.

Anybody mentioned in the trigger (The first bolded sentence followed by the colon) is a target of a tactics card (but not an order). So since the enemy attacking unit is mentioned in the trigger, it...

Yes, and my point is that the language should be cleaned up in the FAQ/errata, because I'm 99% sure that wasn't the intent. There's an issue in the sense that the wording is sloppy.

The use of "1+, 2+" etc implies they're cumulative.

I think we still need a clarification on this. It's pretty fuzzy.

Nah, the timing issue is still in question.

Might be worth a FAQ entry/errata - RAW, both the tactics zone itself and Field Control have trigger timing of "when an NCU claims a zone." When resolving simultaneous effects, the active player's...

No, I'm talking about the attack granted by Last Stand.

Neither of those. Order is:
1. NCU claims zone
2. Targ player plays Field Control, which does nothing to the board but changes how the active player's action plays out.
3. Active player resolves...

You still control the effect; you're choosing the targeting. It's just changed to be a shitty, shitty effect.

I don't think you're being super clear with what you're trying to say, but the way you...

So because Influence effects are simultaneous with the actual zone ability, the active player gets to choose the order they resolve in. This means that you, as the active player, can choose to have...

Welp, bursting their bubble might be a rough time. But he's still very good.

It does none of those things. You never get the effect, and you don't actually occupy the space. You just count as controlling the zone for other effects.

Is it:

1. Immediately after the attack
2. As a "when this attack is completed" trigger
3. After "when this attack is completed" triggers, but before Surge Forth?
4. After Surge Forth?

Well you can physically contact a tray in an arc other than where you started, but you have to align to the arc you started in. But I guess you formally "contact" the enemy in the arc you started,...

Keep in mind that the wound suffered through panic are part of the attack, so you can play WIDMND when a unit gets wiped due to panic.

I'm guessing they're busy with the kickstarter atm.

It's based on the unit itself. Attachments don't count unless they have the "Affiliation" ability.

When the Kingsguard unit is redeployed (as in the case of Here We Stand's scenario rules and others), do they show up with a fresh supply of banners?

That's correct. And that's a big part of why Giants aren't worth running.

What does this card mean by "contact"? Can I charge a unit from the front, but actually touch bases in their side arc, and then align to the rear?

Yes and yes.

Active player's effect resolves first, ergo active player has the first turn to re-roll.

Thanks! I know it was changed wrt Redcloaks, but didn't know it was a general thing.

We know that Redcloaks consider a charge a single action for their ability; is this true for Aeron Damphair's Influence ability too?

They both have to be on the same unit.

That's cool, those should probably be changed then.

That doesn't answer my question, so it's not much help.

Yeah, you might be right. I'd still love to get an official word on this.

Is Benjen Stark's version of Hit and Run meant to have the same requirement that Robb's was, where it requires you to begin the Turn engaged with the Defender to be able to Retreat? Seems like a...

No it's not. I noted that RoH have worse attachment options and a deck that doesn't work as well compared to Screamers; I'm looking at the holistic situation.

The rest of your argument says that...

The token goes on the unit that used it, say you copy War Cry over with CT - you can use it on the unit that only temporarily has it, and it won't affect the use of the ability on the first unit.
...

No, it's really not ok. If they explicitly said that Baratheon was an underpowered faction in the rulebook or on the box, that'd be one thing, but people are buying into this game with a certain...

I coulda swore I remembered it, but the search function wasn't returning crap.

When the Uncontrolled Rage ability on Gregor Clegane, Lord Tywin's Mad Dog is used, does that charge count ad his action for his activation?

EDIT: Already answered, derp.

It's not that they're mutually exclusive - if you play it like Diversionary Tactics you can't ever legally place the corpse pile, since the "Short Range" mentioned on the card is, by implication, in...

What makes you think that? If that were true, wouldn't Mission 4 be "Each time..."?

Player A is a Free Folk player and Player B is a Lannister Player. It is player A's turn. They play Regroup and Reform on two of their units, one of which contains a Turncoat placed by the Lannister...

For mission cards that you could conceivably score multiple times, is it possible? For example, for mission 2, do you score a point each time an enemy claims the Combat or Maneuver zone do you gain a...

Meant to post this in the rules q's section.

Is a centrally-placed objective considered to be on both sides of the table, or neither, for the purposes of Mission 10?

In older FAQs there were comments that if you had a choice about *when* to trigger an ability, it targets. Because you could choose to use it when unit charges and not when another does.

Once per round or once total, if it's in play for 2 rounds?

I know *this* isn't the case.



It's not "once per round." It never says that on the card. It says "once this round."

I'm not saying it doesn't target the Xbowmen. I'm saying it *does* target the charging unit, if Eddard targets.

No, it happens "once this round." Which is a different statement. Like I said, it's unclear, we should wait for some official word.

The point is that if Eddard Stark is considered to target, then you'd be wrong about Ready! Aim! Fire! (assuming the ruling follows some sort of overarching logic and is not meant to be arbitrary).

The use of "this round" in the text of mission 9 inplies that it will only be in effect for a single round (at a time). We nerf a clarification on what's intended from the rules team.

Does a unit have to be entirely within the enemy deployment zone to score Mission 6, or just with a tiny sliver of their base inside?

The game mode states that the mission cards are drawn at the start of the game, but don't cycle the first time until the start of the 3rd round - so potentially some objectives might stick around for...

Better then pretending there's no problem, like your cartoon implied.

How the heck does Eddard Stark target? By that logic Ready! Aim! Fire! should target, and we know that doesn't.

Do you think that balance is not a good design goal?

The first effect is controlled by the Lannister player, the other effect is controlled by their opponent.

No, I'm right. Read the card. I guarantee you're misinterpreting whatever you're reading. "Controller" means something different and specific, but I think the language barrier is going to prevent me...

These two statements are in contradiction to each other.

So the first thing to (unfortunately) keep in mind is that targeting works differently for Orders and Tactics Cards. For Tactics Cards, anything mentioned in bold before the colon (the trigger) is...

Unless fighting against Armor 2+ opponents *from the front*, Dothraki Screamers will out-damage Riders of Highgarden, as well as be more durable. What's more, they have worse attachment options, and...

The Joffrey NCU specifically says on the card that your opponent gets to target and choose one of your units on the card.

The difference to keep in mind with Turncoat is that once the game...

Yup, because it says "1 additional wound" it's considered to be a wound inflicted by the attack.

Still waiting for someone to say anything in the face of this lol

When the ruling is in contravention to the text of the card it's worth asking. Is the text in error?

You can resolve the effects in either order, as the active player, so it's possible to attach Ygritte to the unit after it is brought onto the table.

Cool, thanks.

Would be nice. I'm hoping for an official word on it so we can put it to rest.

The rules call them "effects" but never abilities.

Does the Clegane attachment's charge use up its action for its activation? If so, what makes it different from the free maneuver that cavalry get? There's a player in my playgroup who's insisting you...

Olenna's ability comes off as a specific exception to the rule that you can't target units off the board.

I'm actually not so sure this is intentional; previous FAQ rulings indicated that units mentioned in the trigger for orders were targeted too.

Ok, now I'm confused. For Tactics Cards, the unit that triggers them is considered a target - but this is not true of Orders?

Nah I just mean like... players' hands aren't accurate to sub-mm distances, and that's what's required to adjudicate contact in this case.

This seems like a pretty egregious balance issue lol

How do you adjudicate that when trays are potentially jostled or moved or on a slightly uneven table to be .00001 mm out?

Great! Thanks.

So when do you align enemies as described under the "contacting multiple enemies," sidebar on p.16? Before aligning to your charge target? How does that work?

I'm asking if it's generalizable.

Should these be read as "Before Determining Attack Dice?" Like for example a unit of Rose Knights has 8 wounds remaining and makes a melee attack. Does it roll 5 dice because it gained a wound back...

Specifically with respect to the "Engaging Multiple Enemies" sidebar on page 16 of the rulebook. Does it happen after the "Roll Charge Distance and Move Attacker" step, the "Align with Enemy" step,...

Why wouldn't you just rule it the other way, though? Why should moving an attachment from 1 unit to the other result in a net loss of a wound from a game experience perspective? Why not just apply...

Better solution would be to update giant unit cards with an ability that says "whenever this unit takes wounds, it takes half that many wounds, rounding down, instead" and get rid of their existing...

Hilarious with Endless Horde if it works that way.

This is a good next step.

The minis are sweet, and were incredibly anticipated on my part, but the rules after the revision fell incredibly flat. If they're not going to be playable for like a year+ I might as well sell off...

Wrong subforum

And now he doesn't buff giants. Giants have way too much skornergy (antisynergy) in the 2021 update IMO.

The points deduction for running all 3 dragons and the Mother of Dragons version of Dany isn't being applied correctly. More precisely, it's not being applied at all.

Giants are actually nice with him. One of the main abilities he has is he can go fish his cards out of the deck, thus thinning your deck.

So Shinall admitted that Starks are overtuned. Seems like I was on about the truth when I was talking about this.

The tournament in question was slanted heavily towards Lannister.



No, I don't think he (or you) are following. I'd imagine that if there were more tournament results you'd still say the...

If you understood statistics, you'd also know that smaller groups lead to more variance, and so your comment about neutrals is meaningless.

The real question is, does Starks w/ max wolves...

My understanding was that the last big Euro tournament had 6/10 of the top 10 being Stark, 5 of those being lists abusing cheap Wolves to get more activations, and there was only 1 Lannister in the...

They seem quite OP at the moment, and the last big tournament before the pandemic hit was overwhelmingly tilted towards Starks.

So I've been playing a bit, and the units that I've found the easiest to use have been Raiders, Followers/Champions of bone, and Giants. I want to branch out a little; how do people use Trappers?...

There are effects that blank them but Ygritte is great for dealing with Walder.

At least bears will make it much easier to get 2 units in melee with 1.

Many of the cards are *very* situational and require more setup than other factions' card decks - do you guys think this limits the factions' potential, since CMON said they don't want to errata card...

I'm guessing the next two are Greyjoy and Martell. But I hope they take their time with it, all the current factions need some love on the supply chain side.

Always run Ygritte to protect the big lads.

For an "elite" list you're gonna want FoB (or lots of giants).

It means having an average cost of 4/activation in your army... that's low, even for Free Folk. I'd be interested to see how Badger breaks down listbuilding if he thinks 10 activations is important...

WTF do you mean "only 9 activations"? That's quite a few. In 50 point games, sure, we can start talking 10+

It seems like running 2 or 3 NCUs is what people do. Whay affects your guys' decision making process in this regard? When do you run 2, when do you run 3?

Tyrell might have been its own faction at one point.

Yeah, though part of the problem is if every neutral unit costs, say, 1 point more than it would if it were in-faction, then in a merc army, running lots of troops becomes the main option, just the...

You know what they could add that would kick ass? A "for beginners" button on the main screen that'd have tutorial videos and suggested starting army lists for all of the faction starters.

I'm a new Free Folk player, and I've got 2 copies of the starter, and 1 of everything else except the cave dweller savages, which I'll probably get soon. I wanted to ask the community what units...

I think we can agree on that, but in a Neutral-only faction they should have something to make up for that. If the Neutral Tactics Deck was OP to make up for intentionally throttled units, that would...

A poll is not a particularly effective way of getting objective data. Most people are going to fall into the "my faction is underpowered, factions mine has an advantage against are balanced, factions...

What other major tournaments have Neutrals performed poorly at?

Well pre 1.5.1 Boltons won LVO, didn't they?

Win At All Costs.

From my perspective, it looks like a bunch of WAAC players upset the meta is now more balanced.

This. Competitive games need rules updates to adjust to things. This is a good thing; if it happens about once a year, that's fine.

Cool, thanks for your insight.

Thanks for the input, guys. Do you think Frey is pushing people to run more spammy, less elite armies so as not to provide juicy targets for his ability?

Just started this game, and I'm playing Free Folk, so can't run neutral units. I've heard that Walder Frey and Varys are very commonly run as the NCUs of choice, since Walder Frey can shut down...