For DM\'s eyes only! ;)
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Thread: For DM\'s eyes only! ;)

  1. #1

    Default For DM\'s eyes only! ;)

    For DM\'s eyes only! ;) :D lol


    Not really. lollollol

    So I was wondering how many of you use critical hit/fumble charts? This has been a debate with my gamming group as I like them, because I feel they add a little more realism to the game and they can really make things intersting. My players only like them when it is in their favor. Go figure.

    I currently use the the crit/fumble charts from D20 Elric! Nice but not perfect. Any thing better out there. I think I would really like to see something that was more orientated towards the specific body parts.

    So again do you use them?

  2. #2

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    I use them, and the fun option of the critical threats where a natural 20 on the second roll kills instantly.

    I am also sometimes prone to using the Wandering Damage System.

    Why mess around with silly monsters?

  3. #3

  4. #4

    Default

    You\'ve never heard of the Wandering Damage System? Oh, my, but you\'re a deprived one...

    The wandering damage system was originally published in an old Dragon Magazine, as a part of the \'Killer Dungeon Master\' text.

    Wandering monsters? Too slow and convoluted. Just deal the damage directly.

    It went something like this....

    Roll 1d10:

    1: Your character cuts himself shaving. Consult limb-loss table.
    2: Your character falls down a flight of stairs. Take 2d6 points of damage.
    3: Something invisible bites off your character\'s nose, doing 2-7 points of damage and really messing up his charisma.

    ...

    and on in that vein.

    The same issue also included information on the Sleep Inducing Dungeon Master, who exists with only one purpose in life... to steal the players\' dice! Beware! He often has an accomplice in the party who will spend an hour debating over what to name his pack mule.. pointless mazes... and soft Barbara Streisand music in the background...


  5. #5
    Brushlicker tzor's Avatar
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    No. I have been in the valley of death, and even in the era where we all knew the rules had holes you could park aircraft carriers inside I still had problems when the odd creature fumbled or when someone hit the odd creature.

    Back in those days (1E AD&D) we used to grab whatever table we could get our hands on no matter how bizzare it seemed in AD&D. Arms Law was a good source for the crit hit/fumble tables.

    :o Good in an evil sot of way you know.

    So I\'ve finally come up with this simple notion, hit points are bizzare, abstract things that represent so many factors in terms of health and heroics that it is almost pointless t detail it beyond that. (Given the fact that you can fight at full potential at full HP and at 1 HP already strains the notion of believability as it is.) Therefore there are three types of damage that combat can give you. Subdual, regular and attribute damage and that should cover all situations.

    Additional rules for criticial hits and fumbles should be handled through brilliant and vivid descriptins with minor rewards if the occasion suggests them.

  6. #6

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    used them all the time back when I ran RuneQuest games.

  7. #7

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    Yeah, on a Natural 1 i make them roll, but i add their character level and dex to determine it.

    If you rolled a natural one;
    DC 15 = (character level) + (Dex Mod) + D20
    With another natural one for a dex check being an automatic fail.


    The way i see it, a higher level character is a lot less likely to accidentally harm themself than a lower level one. Basically if you\'re Epic Level (or close) you\'d need to REALLY screw up ie; two ones in a row, to hurt yourself that way.

  8. #8

    Default

    Originally posted by vincegamer
    used them all the time back when I ran RuneQuest games.
    Augh!! I hated fumble rules in RQ!! It always seemed to work out that the result was \"you fling your sword 50 ft. and decapitate your nearest companion\".
    lol
    Or maybe my GM was cheating. :D

    I don\'t generally like fumble rules because they always seem too random in my experience. It is reasonable that you might occasionally hit a companion if you\'re in close melee or firing a missile into melee, and sometimes weapons do break. But I think it should be a rare thing, not every time someone rolls a 1 (or 98-100 if we\'re talking RQ).

    Itchy has a good point, too. Why should a 1 be the same result for a 20th level character as it is for a 1st level character?

    OTOH, I have a GM who doesn\'t like fumble rules so he rules that 1s are just normal misses. Makes the game seem rather dull somehow. Maybe if D&D fumbles were done similarly to crits? Roll again, and then if you roll within a certain amount it\'s a drastic fumble (you hit a buddy), or another result will get you broken weapon, and a third level of result will just mean you lose your next attack. If you\'re going to say a 1 is something other than a normal failure, it should have some consequence, but maybe not always a horrible one.

  9. #9

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    Oh, well that\'s what i do sniffles. If they roll a one, then i make them roll again for the fumble... they might just miss, but then again if they roll bad enough, they might miss AND throw their axe away.:o

    Oh, and when you get into the higher levels of characters you start getting more attacks, so that\'s when the crit fumble rules REALLY start to hurt you if you don\'t compensate for being a more experienced character (higher level and more help to getting your fumble DC passed).

  10. #10

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    Originally posted by tzor
    Back in those days (1E AD&D) we used to grab whatever table we could get our hands on no matter how bizzare it seemed in AD&D.
    I remember those days...heck I even made up tables when I couldn\'t find ones that applied (or needed tweaked, or if I was bored...)

    I used to use crit tables, but not anymore. Couple of reasons: A) I tend to get to graphic if I use them. Wasn\'t a problem when I was playing with the boys in the Navy, but when playing with your 12 yr old son, I\'m better not to go there. B) Slows down play. I\'d rather \"wing it\" and get on to the next attack than reference another chart on my DM table (which is normally crammed full of books, charts, dice, minis, paper, etc.)

    I DO have a fumble die. It\'s the biggest die I have (other than the fist-sized d20, which I don\'t use in games). It was blank and I etched letters in the sides: Hit ally, Hit self, Drop weapon, Break weapon, Fall, and the dreaded \"STAR\", which basically means \"the DM is going to be creatively evil\". There\'s nothing like the look of horror in the players eyes when they hear that \"clunk\" on the table behind the screen...:D

  11. #11
    NecroN
    Guest

    Default Cirts and fumbles (going to be a long one)

    I have a feeling this will be a long one... Just a warning.

    Critical hit tables. My game of Choice is Warhammer and Crit tables have always played a big part of that game and my running that game. I used to have the 1st edition ones memorized \"and by chance one of the bone fragments has severed a major artery. Death from shock and blood loss is almost instantaneous\". I also used them in Merp/Rolemaster as they were a major part of the game. Merp/RM I also used the fumble tables.

    I used them in a few other games as well, the R.Talsorian games (Mekton, Cyberpunk) I had a table for both crits and fumbles. When I was younger and still in school I would make up charts in class (bad me) and use them for whatever game I was running. Over the years I have written more then a few systems and these always included a crit/fumb system and most had associated charts.

    If find most of the time now though that I use them if they are included in the game and don\'t if they aren\'t. So for example I currently run 2nd ed Warhammer and Feng Shui. Warhammer uses the charts, Feng Shui didn\'t have any and I didn\'t make any so I don\'t use them.

    Now on the topic of Crits. I would like to bring up Feng Shui again. This system has got to have the best system for crits and fumbles I have seen to date.

    The problem with most systems is that you have a set chance to crit or fumble that has no bearing on how good you are at what you do. R.Talsorian being the worst for this. A d10 based system, where if your rolled a 1 you fumbled. You could be the best damn solo on the planet with 10s in all stats (or more with cyberware) and 10s in all skills and you would still fumble 10% of the time. That just doens\'t make sense. Same with older D&D, you fumbled %5 of the time and critted %5 of the time, now this has been fixed somewhat with the critical threat range but you still fumble 5% of the time.

    This drives me nuts. The better you are at something the better chance you should have to crit and the less chance for a fumble.

    Now back to Feng Shui. It is an extremely simple D6 based system. Roll 2 D6, subtract one from the other add to a skill. If you roll a 6 on either die roll again and add. It usually means that if you are good at something then you are good, if you are bad you are bad.

    Crits/Fumbles occur when Boxcars are rolled (2 6s). Once you roll boxcars something spectacular is going to happen. Roll again. If you fail in your roll (skill, attack, whatever) after rolling boxcars things go catastrophically wrong. If you succeed in your roll after boxcars things go amazingly well.

    What this system means is that if you are really good at something and have a high skill, then you are probably going to succeed in your roll and boxcars coming up before hand means you will most likely succeed amazingly well. Also the odds of botching go down as you would have to roll rather poorly after boxcars before anything bad could happen.

    Okay that was harder to explain then I thought. Hope I got that out right.

    If looking for more info on Feng Shui we have an active thread going on my board about it, I get into the crit/fumble system there as well. There is a great synopsis of our first game there as well.

    Feng Shui Thread on WGR

  12. #12

    Default

    A little off-topic, but along the lines of what Naukhel was saying about charts and stuff for random(ish) generation of situations, did anyone see the random name generator in Dragon (or Dungeon)? You had to roll for vowels and consonants and stuff and it got really silly. It was about 14 years ago mind, so you may not remember it...

  13. #13

    Default

    Originally posted by reverend
    A little off-topic, but along the lines of what Naukhel was saying about charts and stuff for random(ish) generation of situations, did anyone see the random name generator in Dragon (or Dungeon)? You had to roll for vowels and consonants and stuff and it got really silly. It was about 14 years ago mind, so you may not remember it...
    GW did the same kind of thing for the ogres in the White Dwarf when the OK were released. That was at least entertaining and made some sense.

  14. #14

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    I just remember being in English Literature class with my mate and making up names for the afternoon. Got bored soon after lol

  15. #15
    NecroN
    Guest

    Default The whfrp character pack

    WHFRP V2 character pack has a great section on pc names that make some great names that don\'t sound silly at all. Plus there are enough of them that you shouldn\'t get repititon for years even with Warhammers PC fatality rate.

    We actually rolled all names randomly this game, and it has been great for coming up with quick NPC names when someone that wasn\'t meant to be important to the plot becomes moreso.

    Some pcs in my current game:
    Rambreckt Vogle
    Brelinda (hmm can\'t remember off hand)
    Kurt Vanbelt
    Abbey Hoefer

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