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  1. #1

    Default the gamer community

    A lot of the Warhammer posts now current have mentioned at times the \"gamer\" community. I hope this isn\'t out of place but here is a rant I whipped up when I was really ticked off several months ago after a few bad experiences in a game store (I\'m a professional writer and I do this sort of thing for fun).

    Fortunately, this rant is a compilation of several events rather than a one-shot afternoon or I\'d be ordering everything on-line from now until Doomsday as there are no other local stores that carry figures.

    - Otter
    \"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work.\"

    *********************************

    I love comics and computer games, and because of my interests and my friends I am constantly coming in contact with those who embody the stereotypical image of the D&D-type campaign gamers. I do not understand them at all. They are unbelievably offensive in their actions and their behavior. It’s amazing that someone has not beaten them to within an inch of their lives with a hardbound copy of “Miss Manners”.

    If anyone plays here (I’m certain there are some, as we’ve all rolled the dice a time or two), I am assuming that you are one of those that likes to play but are like my boyfriend and his circle of D&D friends: Socially-oriented, family-type people who just happen to also enjoy role-playing, and not those portrayed in this piece. In fact, if I can get stories to the contrary I would LOVE to retool my negative image of what I see as the “average” gamer. Or is this rant in keeping with your own experiences in game shops? If you do game, please let me know.

    *********************************

    “A little thing like you don’t need minotaurs.”

    It’s Saturday, I’m in a game shop, and somehow I’ve grown a forty-three-year-old boil on my left shoulder. He stinks of old pizza, he’s wearing a wedding ring, and he keeps trying to bump his crotch against my leg.

    “I keep tellin’ you, get the elf ladies. Don’t you like elf ladies? You see Lord of the Rings? Here’s one on a unicorn.”

    I’ve already run three laps around the store trying to circle away from him and haven’t otherwise acknowledged his existence. Based on his deft handling of women, I suppose that he thinks I’m smitten as I have neither chucked my hot chocolate on him, nor screamed and run off with my hands waving frantically like Kermit the Frog announcing the evening’s guest.

    My choices aren’t good. It’s customer appreciation day and I can either leave the store and sacrifice forty bucks of free merchandise or knee the guy in the groin and never be allowed back. He appears to be a friend of the manager’s and I’m betting he’ll stick around until closing, lending aid to the female customers of his choice. I’ve been waiting for another woman over the age of twenty to come in since if I ditched him on the defenseless little girls reading through the Ranma series at the counter I’d be committing a mortal sin. The confrontational part of my brain really wants to ask him what is the DC challenge rating for moving out of his parents\' basement.

    “Tell ya what. Put those back and let me pick ‘em out for you.”

    Moving from New York to North Carolina has been a real culture shock. The suitable old joke that I’d be shocked to find culture applies, but there is a nightlife if you know where to look for it. Unfortunately, living with two teachers and a police officer means that the household usually falls into bed at around ten, leaving me to crawl the walls until the day’s caffeine has dissipated. Being a hardcore Dungeons and Dragons fanatic as well as an art teacher, one of my roommates paints the little pewter miniatures that they use in table campaigns. One night with time to kill I started painting. Now, I’m incredibly hooked. Painting these things is similar to zen meditation - You have to focus and relax at the same time to paint a statue the size of a nickel so perfectly that it seems a full-sized toy when photographed. For example, take a look at this picture:

    http://www.coolminiornot.com/?id=256

    The statuette in this picture is less than two inches long and an inch high, if that, and most assuredly not one of mine. It’s a real art and I’m entranced by the whole process. The only problem is, of course, that I’m now dependent on the gamer community for its resources. Usually, there’s no challenge popping into the local gamer store for a quick browse and some paint. As long as you stay out of the store on weekend afternoons and evenings when the games are being run, it’s a fast and easy process. But if you dare brave the store during these times…

    My main problem with the average table gamer is they have no social graces. None whatsoever. I’d like to be proven wrong as my boyfriend and several friends are gamers and they are extremely open, intelligent people who shatter the stereotype of reclusive and inept jerks squatting in a dank basement, shrieking out the names of fake deities while slugging back Mountain Dew and fistfuls of Cheetos. Maybe they ARE the average… maybe the gamer who acts like they missed a crucial rung on Darwin’s ladder is just the vocal minority. But until I meet more gamers who are also able to function within a non-game-oriented culture, I’m sticking with the stereotype. Every time I go into a gamer store I have some viciously negative experience that keeps convincing me that the norm is dead-on-balls accurate. I turn to collect money from someone and a kid swipes an item I’ve already paid for off of the counter. The clerk tells me that I can’t open a $3 miniature until my card has been run through the machine because he can’t be sure that I have enough money in my account to cover it (A valid point, perhaps, but one that sounds a bit off when delivered by saying “Stop it. We don’t want to lose money on you” to a regular customer who drops $50 or more a week.). A box of new releases comes in and the menfolk crowd around the counter ogling, then literally yank it away and cover it with their bodies to hide it from view when I lean over to get a look. And don’t forget the Boob Factor, which apparently suggests to all male comers that if I enter a store alone than I’ve made a public announcement that all men regardless of age should either try to pick me up or should talk in very simple words so the icky estrogen doesn’t hinder important information reaching my underdeveloped brain.

    Like my shadow, who has finally meandered away. He’s waddled to the rear of the store to complain loudly to his manager friend about meeting a “cold bitch” somewhere. Gee, I wonder if I’m meant to overhear? At least now I can look at the items on the lower racks without denim in my ear.

    Now, miniatures in hand, it’s time to run the gauntlet. As I mentioned, it’s customer appreciation day and the store is packed with gamers taking advantage of the sales. The counter has a long line, mainly with college-age kids standing in packs. Being told I’m a fool while fending off a pelvic region is bad enough, but this is the part I really hate – You cannot be in the proximity of a gamer without entering into their world. The second you enter into what a gamer perceives as their personal space, even if it’s as simple as standing in a line behind them, they have the right to either talk to you as they would an old friend or confront you over some imagined slight. The first is just confusing, the latter incredibly insulting: If I saw an old woman buying a crate of Aqualube and eagerly thumbing through a Playboy from 1983 featuring “Dynasty’s” fully nude Joan Collins, I’d be calling my friends and relatives once out of the store but I’d never criticize her right to buy them to her face. This is inevitably what happens in line at a game store, where your purchasing preferences are everyone else’s business. And even the clerks take part in a jolly bout of customer criticism, which is just ludicrous. Doesn’t your livelihood depend on taking my money? Why do you want to discourage this?

    For once, it looks like they don’t much care what I’m buying. Instead, they are listening to the gentleman in front of me recite facts and figures from some world I’ve never heard of. I pick up one of the Ranmas, lean on the counter and tune out, ever so often inching my way up in line.

    Suddenly a finger stabs down onto my book and the gentleman in front of me looks me straight in the eyes. He says, very intently: “I know more about weapons than anyone else in this store.”

    I show empty hands and back up a step, saying something banal like “No problems here.”

    Oh yes, stupid me. I forgot this was one of my best friends and he was just starting conversation. The gaggle of gamers LOSES it, some of them laughing so hard that they choke and gag. The clerk doubles over. Ha ha, I laugh, Yes, yes, good joke. The kindly gentleman explains that he is an expert on arms and armor in Whereverville, then pulls back his coat to show a heavy knife. You know the type, the brushed steel variety that is sold at Renaissance faires. He then makes eye contact again and says in a low voice, “If that had been a threat, you would know it.”

    Now, knives are like underwear. If you’re the typical run-of-the-mill underwear-wearing individual, you put it on in the morning and forget about it. If you consciously think about your underwear during the day, something has gone wrong and your underwear is in need of attention. People who go around flashing their underwear in public are likely to go to jail for an indeterminate period of time. Which is why the Benchmade Balisong in my waistband remains covered by my shirt and I make a nicely impressed OOOOH sound for the benefit of my new best friend. I’m up next in line and I cannot WAIT to get out of here. I don’t care if my boyfriend needs to work next customer appreciation day - I’m digging him out of that classroom and using him as full-bodied gamer deodorant.

    Now I’m finally at the clerk, I’m finally paying, and I’m so close to leaving that I’m practically out the door. I’ve planned to run across the street for a sushi lunch and by now I’m really, REALLY looking forward to curling up with a novel, some green tea, and an eel special roll. Which is why when the gentleman with the iron skewer loudly announces to his friends that they should go eat at this same restaurant that I shake my head and quietly sigh. At which time – and I swear this happened – the clerk looks at me and shouts “You got a problem with the Japanese?” The gaggle of gamers starts accosting me about racism and one of them said: “I knew it. She’s wearing leather.” Great. So in addition to being an ice queen and a coward, I am also a racist and a black leather jacket is apparently the new covert symbol of the KKK.

    I really hate gamers.


  2. #2

    Default

    I know exactly where you are comming from. The entire time I worked at a game store I often felt as if I was the only sane person in the shop (a very ironic statement if you know me).
    Sadly there is a general tendency for those gamers which attract the most attention to themselves to be obsessive, loud, and to possess poor hygene.
    I really don\'t think that they are in the majority though. Most of my customers came in, got their stuff, asked how business was and if there was anything new, paid and left. Even game nights were pretty sedate most of the time. But the few truely obnoxious people made the job hell at first. In the begining I would casually admit to having played a particular game, then it was as if the conversation had become an interrogation. They wanted to grill me on the complete history of that particular game and demonstrate their superior knowledge. I think that is one of the reasons there are so few women involved in, pardon the term, \'geek\' hobbies. They hate getting swamped by guys who want to show off what they know, especially when they know so much about nothing.
    I must admit, the role-players were worse in this respect than the war-gamers.

  3. #3

    Default

    Jeez. You have my sympathies. Now, I only hang around my local (Guelph, Ontario) gaming store long enough to get what I need, but they seem like a pleasant enough bunch there. The clerks (and 2 of 3 that I\'ve ever met are women) are polite and helpful, and anybody playing in the store is usually just that - playing. Ignoring the shoppers, not annoying them. What corner of hell do you live in that you deserve this? I assume that N.C. isn\'t some grotesque backwater if you were willing to move there. Being a man, I\'ve never been the target of such creepazoid behaviour, but I can imagine it\'s frustrating and really spoils your day. I\'m not sure what\'s worse, the fact that they seem to resent your presence, or the fact that they simultaneously seem to crave it. Your knife-wielding friend sounds like he\'d be banned from any respectable establishment, and Mr. \"Elf Ladies\" is just the kind of friend that every small business owner doesn\'t need. I don\'t even know what to say about the Japanese thing. If it made one damn bit of difference I\'d apologize on behalf of male gamers everywhere but who are we kidding? Those clowns are probably there right now, laughing nasally, playing rules-Nazi to each other and trading pr0n site URL\'s across the table.

  4. #4

    Default


    Yeah-yes. The evil People. I remember when there was actually a store in my neighborhood. I remember the keen unwashed floor smell and rugrats at my feet. I remember the hoards of primed minis that were called \"painted\".. But most of all I remember them packing up in the middle of the night and leaving to evade their insurance, taking with them the very first Confrontation figure I ever owned among others with them. I guess I had it coming when I thought I naturally assumed that other gamers would be like me. I was horribly wrong. Some facts really got to me, like the fact no one actually read a rulebook when a question of rules came up (god forbid I try and shoot before I move into assault). And what is with these people and swords? It must be some macho penial competition I\'m not interested in. There were cries of \"My Katana rocks!\" \"Oh yea, my claymore\'ll beat that any day!\". I have nothing against swordsmanship, I myself have studied with a bokken a little but it\'s not a big deal and I never tell people to brag because I know I haven\'t trained very much. I guess painters have a more left brained approach to such things and hence there are schisms that arise.

  5. #5

    Default

    Hey Otter, I added a sub-category called \"Misc\" in the Articles section. Why not post your article there? :)

  6. #6

    Default I\'m a Gamer.

    I totally understand; Because, I\'m a woman... and a real life in the flesh gamer. Now I\'m perfectly sane, I just like using the creativity and in a \"real\" Roleplaying game there are no winners or losers. So far I\'ve played D&D (2nd and 3rd ed), D20 Star Wars, Call of Cthulhu, WereWolf, Vampire, Aberrant, Mage, Gurps, All Flesh Must be Eaten, BESM, In Nomine, Toon, Castle Falkenstien(Diceless System), 7th Sea and probably a few more I can\'t remember. I\'ve been meaning to try Middle Earth Roleplay, Legend of the Five Rings, Marvel, Trinity, Shadowrun, Murphy\'s World and \"Cadilacs and Dinosaurs\" just because I got the books laying around.

    Now I have found certain games tend to attract certain people. Every person I have met that only plays Call of Cthulhu tends to twitch or tick. I think Legend of the five rings tends to attrack some serious hack-n-slash type people. I haven\'t seen any Goths play or Larp anything other than Vampire. Gurps tends to attract some serious Rule Lawyers. This is just my personal observation, Every gaming con I go to I just go and try as many different things as I can and sometimes you can tell what table has what game just by looking at the people.

    Now most gamers I know are people I choose not to associate with for various reasons. (Ug, the horror stories I could tell) However I\'ve been able to find a group of decent people and that\'s what I stick with. Mainly because they are the ones I haven\'t banned from my house because of behavior.

    Lisette

  7. #7
    Sturmhalo
    Guest

    Default

    I can hardly call myself a gamer these days, but here\'s what I\'ve experienced through my occasional visits to my local GW store.

    Don\'t go in on a weekend, an evening or a school holiday! The place will be packed with kids. All kids smell of piss and biscuits (cookies) and the poor store guy will have to keep spraying room spray around his shop to make it a bit more inviting. Kids can also be the most argumentative when playing games. I once saw a group of kids getting ready to play their squads of space marines against one another, and jeez the language! All arguments about someone having a bit more cover near their squad than the next guy, or someone\'s squad being a little further away from the table edge than someone elses! No wonder one of the store guys had some kids mother complain about him threatening to ban her poor little son!

    The socially inept gamer is also a true stereotype. One guy goes into my local GW and just talks in a very load voice at the staff about the latest GW novel he\'s reading. The guy is totally wrapped up in this world and seems so impressed by the actions of fictitious characters wielding fictitious magical weapons. The guy talks as if he was persoanlly \'there\' when an event took place in the book! He just goes into the store, says his piece, then leaves.

    Gamers are not always very humble and like to think they are the best at what they do! Some folks are happy to see well painted figures and admit there\'s a lot they have yet to learn about painting. Others will be dismissive and ignore you coz you\'ve put their nose out of joint!

    Gamers can be very chatty when asked about minis or gaming, but beyond that they\'ll perhaps just grunt at you.

    Outside GW, why do all goths seem to play Vampire and believe they are actually the character they play? When I was uni I heard of some guy saying that time between games was just down-time! Sad muppet! A friend at the time also new someone who played Vampire as part of quite a large gaming group. He got a desperate sounding message on his answer machine from this friend urging him to call him back quickly. Thinking something terrible had happened he called him back immediately. Apparently all it was was the gaming group was splitting up into two seperate groups due to personal differences! Not the end of the world.

    These are the reasons why I\'m reluctant to get back into gaming. I\'m not claiming to be the most rounded individual in the world, but I can be quite \'normal\' when I want to be!

    I can see why women are put off by male gamers as well. What it is, is you\'re entering a male dominated realm, and it can be quite novel to have women interested in our nerdy little ways. Some men (boys) think that coz you like their hobby you\'ll be attracted to them. After all, they find you attractive, and that\'s partly to do with your interests as well as your assests.

  8. #8

    Default

    At the risk of coming on like another pizza-breathed new friend, I\'d like to say: a very entertaining and well written rant, Otter.

    After a few decades out of it, I went into a GW store recently and it explains the guarded look the staff have in their eyes when they come up to you and obey instructions to be friendly.

    One of the reasons I dropped out of RPG is that I could never find a group that had the right balance of serious intent and fun; that and the inevitable feuds, rivalries and power struggles of course.

    In the 80\'s, I tried to sell the idea for a one off tv drama about a gaming group that\'s infiltrated on its \'open day\' by Loki, the god of mischief, in the guise of a wild looking Aqualung type tramp (sorry - 60\'s reference, don\'t worry about it ).;)

    Predictably spells happen \'for real\', people\'s weaknesses and fantasies are mercilessly exposed etc etc, before the god disappears mysteriously at the end. It was a genre piece but also a chance to a take a sly dig at the kind of gaming stereotypes we\'re talking about here.

    I thought it was promising - this was pre Dirk Gently days too - the suits thought it was too \'minority taste\'.

    Ah well.

  9. #9

    Default thanks!

    Originally posted by Chern Ann
    Hey Otter, I added a sub-category called \"Misc\" in the Articles section. Why not post your article there? :)
    Thanks Chern Ann, I\'ll tidy it up a bit and resubmit it. :)

    - Otter
    \"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work\"

  10. #10
    Justin[AsG]
    Guest

    Default


    I assume that N.C. isn\'t some grotesque backwater
    No NC isnt a hicksville inbreeding center, ok well a few smaller towns maybe but I really love living in NC. I have mountains 3 hours away, and the beach 3 hours to the east. You cant hate that. Btw where are you in NC? We have a really nice \"and normal\" store in Davidson. Look up Skirmishes sometime if you get a chance.

  11. #11

    Default

    Nice story. I\'m glad it didn\'t happen all at once.

    Okay, I\'m a gamer. Even though I hardly ever play, I like playing games far better than any other hobby (even painting - but painting doesn\'t require an opponent). I fall into the subset of wargamers though I\'ve done my share of role-playing.
    I don\'t mean to belittle your experiences, which were terrible. But I find myself feeling terribly sad for the \"jerks\" in the story.
    I remember high school. I was too shy to ask a girl out and too poor to do anything even if I\'d had the courage. I was embarrassed by the changes in my body and physically inept. As far as I could tell I had very little going for me. However, I\'d get together with my friends and I could be Thorn, pirate captain ne master thief. Or I could be Liet Kynes and lead the people of Arakis to overthrow offworld oppressors. Basically I had found one thing I was good at.
    Unfortunately 90% of the world seemed to ridicule me precisely for what I was good at.
    I was at least fortunate enough not to have a weight problem or odor problem and I was raised by caring parents who taught me civil behavior.

    I feel sad for the fellows you describe because they don\'t seem to have anyone to teach them acceptable behavior. Every girl they have met in their peer group has probably explicitly or implicitly told them they are grotesque for being who they are (rather than being told their behavior is offensive they are told THEY are offensive). Suddenly they see a female who because she is in a game shop probably plays games and so will probably appreciate their expertise (and whom they expect to behave like their friends who are probably all outcast guys). Unfortunately no one has ever taught them how to approach a strange woman and politely strike up a conversation. (and if they learned anything from manga it\'s that females are always sweetly submissive when faced with aggressive males).

    Just because it\'s sad though, doesn\'t excuse the behavior. Mr. Jeans committed sexual assault. Mr. Flash His Manhood might have committed assault with a deadly weapon. (okay there\'s probably and uncalled for dig in there)

  12. #12

    Default Oh my god she pegged it....

    I sincerely doubt war gamers are any better. I feel as if I have to shower once an hour when attending Games Day. I think that the other side of the coin there is the gaming floozies. These are the female gamers that flock to that type of person you mention in your article, they are quite amusing if you watch them and the male gamers interact. Blimey wot a marvelous speciman she is....Look how the male of the species begins the mating ritual involving HO HO\'s and Jolt Cola spitting. LOL. Mind you I have little patience for the gamer crowd at all. I am sorry that is the enviroment you have had at your gaming store. We have our share of those type gamers here, but not near as bad. People please don\'t think all of North Carolina is like that. We actually have towns with 2 street lights in them. :)


    Originally posted by Justin[AsG]

    I assume that N.C. isn\'t some grotesque backwater
    No NC isnt a hicksville inbreeding center, ok well a few smaller towns maybe but I really love living in NC. I have mountains 3 hours away, and the beach 3 hours to the east. You cant hate that. Btw where are you in NC? We have a really nice \"and normal\" store in Davidson. Look up Skirmishes sometime if you get a chance.
    So your near Sanford eh? If you get the chance stop over at www.yahoogroups.com/tamga. We have a painter/gamer group there that we are trying to build up. We would always welcome another painter to be quite honest.

  13. #13

    Default


    Also, what about the habits of other gamers? I know for a fact Console gamers (Playstation, Xbox, Gamecube) all have their followers with their own sterotypes. Of which they all seem to dislike PC gamers for some reason, and vice versa. I would hate console gamers too (if I wasn\'t both Pc and console) because of the friggen bugs in PC games!

    All I know about hardcore PC gamers is to \"Phe@r their 133t skill5\".. :P

  14. #14
    wyrmling_x
    Guest

    Default Sad, Sad

    Fantastic post, Otter! I give you my deepest sympathies. I know what it\'s like to endure the jerks of the gaming world, however I understand that it is more unfair to women than to men. I often wonder why few women (none in my area) are even remotely interested in gaming of this or any nature. The jerks and creeps you have encountered are, sadly, the current \"norm\" in the so-called gaming community. Or at least the bottom tier of it. I\'m certain they are what turn women away from gaming, in my experience.

    I play and paint Warhammer Fantasy and 40k, and most of the people I play with are intelligent, courteous and otherwise good people. I enjoy gaming with them. However, there are a couple friends of mine that are quite contrary to this, and make me pity the poor women they come in contact with. They are the typical basement gamer. Their cleanliness is questionable, their perversion is disgusting, and their total attitude toward gaming is akin to those creeps you ran into.

    I attribute my own attitude toward gaming to the way my parents raised me. I am glad they tought me manners, respect, courtesy, and selflessness. I find that gamers that lack any or all of these qualities swiftly degenerate into the crude, pathetic porn-trading geeks we find today. Geeks and gamers are easily identifiable - don\'t assume they are the same! :)

  15. #15

    Default

    Originally posted by Mediocrity
    People please don\'t think all of North Carolina is like that. We actually have towns with 2 street lights in them. :)
    Justin and Mediocrity - I\'m living in NC but would rather not say exactly where... It\'s a big state but there\'s only the one gaming store in the area and I didn\'t write this to hurt their business or their reputation. One day I might make a road trip out to your shop and shoot the poop about miniatures with you guys, tho\'. :flip: As for North Carolina in general... I think the people are hella nice and the weather is God\'s gift to the planet earth, especially after New York.

    Thanks to everyone for posting the compliments on the article and for your own gaming experiences. I think maybe if gamers (as a whole) worked to be nicer and more social, the hobby would catch on like wildfire. It\'s only this stigma of the stinky pimple-ridden geek that\'s doing everyone in.

    And the rant really wasn\'t intended to be a battle of the sexes type of post... Vincegamer, I really likes your point about people locking onto a common interest. It seems that gender is something that creates tension in gaming. Another barrier to overcome before the hobby goes vogue?

    - Otter
    \"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work.\"

  16. #16

    Default

    Wow. Yikes. :wow:
    Otter, you have my sympathy.
    I am a female gamer as well (very much into RPG\'s) but luckily, I have never had a really bad experience. \'Course, I don\'t spend much time in game stores either. I DO get odd looks when I show up (however, I also look much younger than I am, so that might be it too) but people are usually polite. Once they get the hint that I actually know what I\'m looking for, the staffers have always been very nice about helping me out.
    I do know a few people who are dangerously close to being stereotypical gamers, on the other hand. They occassionally play in the same RPG group as me. The regulars (my sister and her friends) keep them on their good behavior for the most part. I\'ve also learned that those types of guys tend to avoid women who prove to be intelligent and discerning...

  17. #17

    Default Good lord...

    Jeesh, that may be the worst gamer experience I\'ve ever heard. Sorry you had to go through that, Otter. That said, I do have to admit that I\'m also a gamer. I paint, buy books, and spend an inordinate amount of time writing background for my campaign settings. However, I was raised to be courteous and polite, and I always had other interests other than games to keep me occupied and that gave me enough experience in dealing with women. I\'ve met your kind of gamer (Columbia, MO is rife with them) and I have to agree with Vincegamer in that I feel sorry for them. This is a group of guys that are probably only good at wargaming or rp\'ing and sadly are ridiculed for it by \"mainstrean\" culture. Let\'s face it, hentai and other porn doesn\'t really teach great interpersonal skills with the opposite sex. Know that we\'re not all grotesque, unwashed, ogres that think that the avergae woman is going to give a damn what level our D&D characters are or if we know how to wield a longsword. Hopefully you\'ll be able to find a better shop and quit buying from that little dungeon of a shop. It\'s places like that that make ordering online such a beautiful option.

    Adios,
    Grundar

  18. #18

    Default Take this for what it\'s worth if anything . . .

    You know, people are like that in every hobby that has passionate adherants. If you think the horse crowd, or the stamp collecting folks, the train folks, the sci fi folks, the weavers, the quilters, the bridge players, book collectors - are any different then you really should think again. Any and all of those groups are filled with members who are heavy set, poor visioned, have low hair count, are unwashed.
    I\'ve been around that whole lot and many others and no group is exclusively comprised of physically attractive, normal appearing, well adjusted folks. That\'s not to denigrate anybody but as I stroll around convention floors of all kinds it really seems that it\'s the same group of people -only the booths are selling different things. But strip away the hobby itself and I\'d have a hard time telling their group from ours- some have more women but basically it\'s the same geeky crowd..

    (Incedentally I\'m a member - proud of it)

  19. #19

    Default

    Originally posted by Flashman14
    But strip away the hobby itself and I\'d have a hard time telling their group from ours- some have more women but basically it\'s the same geeky crowd..
    No doubt about the physical standards scenario - There\'s no physical ideal anywhere in any hobby or group. I bet even the sceen actor\'s guild has it\'s bad hair days. And you are right about every hobby having its share of geeks. But to be honest, the only hobby that (to my knowledge) fosters people with no real social skills is gaming. I just can\'t imagine the people in a book store or a bass fishing club treating anybody to the same environment as you\'d find in a game store.

    - Otter
    \"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work\"


  20. #20

    Default

    Oh I don\'t know, Otter. While I agree with your article and the stereotype is true, your comment about book stores caught my eye. I worked at a Barnes & Noble for almost three years, and I\'d have to agree with Flashman about this, while the majority of our customers were at least (and usually at most) civil, we got some of the worst behaved, sometimes frighteningly so, people who came in there, one wondered if they were able to read, sometimes.
    I am sorry for and angered by your experience :( :mad:, and I truly wish I could find more people like you and your friends (guess I never had the patience to weed through the multitudes of idiots). :D

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