Opinions please?
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Thread: Opinions please?

  1. #1
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Default Opinions please?


  2. #2

    Default

    Hmm.... seems a picture converted in B&W using an image editing program.
    Even the background is grey, no shades of yellow or blue and this is really strange.

    The miniatures seems well painted, just converted in black and white

  3. #3

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    Yeah, I flinched on that one too when I first saw it. It \"seems\" to have been PS grey-scaled.

    Is that all you\'re reproching it Mike? Except for the grey-scale filter it does look well painted.

    I\'d only really get mad at this if he tried to enter it in the CMON contest n°6. BtW, any news on that?

    [edit]He\'s got many minis in his gallery that are rated better (8.6 at the moment). It\'s not as if he\'s \"stealing\" somebodies rank. But you\'re right to ask this question. What is CMON\'s position on photoshopped minis by the way?[/edit]

  4. #4
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    I can\'t quite put my finger on my doubts about this miniature.
    On one hand I have looked at his gallery several times in the past and see very well painted miniatures, yet on the other I find the total smoothness of the grey colour(?) on this very difficult to believe.

    Personally I would like to discover that this is an expertly painted minature and not a greyscale\'d picture through photoshop.

  5. #5

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    But he didn\'t mention if he used photoshop or not. It is a bit misleading.

  6. #6
    NecroN
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    Voted a 9 on this one yesterday.

    Have to admit my first amusing thought was that according to Games Workshop this is not painted (less then 3 colours).

    I actually really like it. The only think I think could be improved was to add some browns or maybe blues. When you look at a black and white image you mind adds a few other colours in there that aren\'t pure black white or grey. This usually distinguishes similar colours that have the same tone that would look the same in black and white, but do not to the eye.

    Also due to the whole things being black and white, I find the metals lack the shine they would have against a colour miniature. The chain for example could be seen as a rope. I don\'t know how you would fix this though.

    Overall I love the concept and have considered doing a B&W mini myself. Our of the two I have seen on this site I prefered the newstand (sorry don\'t have the image number).

    Edit: okay didn\'t realize that we were talking about PShoping minis and if this one was. Personally I am usually a Pessimist, but when it comes to a group like this, a group of like minded people sharing a hobby, then I am usually an optimist regarding the behavious of said people. Thus I didn\'t even consider the fact his could be PShopped. Going to give it another look.

    Edit2: okay it states it was done using only two colours, so it says it wasn\'t photoshopped. What does worry me though is that if you look at his/her mini page and look at the backgrounds for all of the minis this one is different. It is much darker. This makes me wonder. Personally though, I would go with the direct approach, anyone send a PM and ask?

  7. #7

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    Message original : Dragonsreach
    I find the total smoothness of the grey colour(?) on this very difficult to believe.
    If you look carefully, you can see variations in the grey (on the legs and the back of the coat for instance), so I don\'t think he used any PS blending tool on those. But the grey background is not helping to determin if it\'s a true monochrome mini or a PS filter. DragonPaint\'s comment on that there are \"no shades of yellow or blue\" is true and something is indeed strange.

  8. #8

    Default

    It\'s not grayscaled. It looks pretty straight up to me. Save the picture out and zoom in so you can see each individual pixel. An image that has been grayscaled will have NO colour whatsoever, just shades of grey. This one looks to have some touches of green and other colour shifts in there.

    It\'s not as if it\'s that difficult for a technically profficient painter to do this sort of thing anyway....

  9. #9

    Default

    This is how it looks now:


    This is how it\'d look if it was PS B&W:


    and spacemunkie just pulled the words from my mouth! :)

  10. #10

    Default

    I have to agree with the fact that this painter would have absolutely no problem in doing a \"color value\" piece like this one. It\'s just not that difficult to do.

  11. #11

    Default

    I think it\'s legit even before seeing that comparison.
    This painter is really very good and I don\'t see why he\'d bother pretending to do something he didn\'t do.
    Regarding the background, almost all of his backgrounds are a shade of gray. If he always used a blue background and then here it was gray you might wonder. The difference appears to be one of brightness or gamma correction. He just didn\'t gamma up this one as much as the others or his lights weren\'t as bright this time.
    Going by what spacemunkie says, I see green, but that could just be my eyes.

    Beautiful piece by the way. First I saw one of these was in the contest at wyrd and immediately I wanted to buy one.
    Of course I could never make it look as nice as this.

  12. #12

    Default

    Ok, here\'s my last miniature.
    I have loaded it in Photoshop, selected Image-->Adjustements--->Gradient map and then selected the darkest and lightest point of the other miniature (they are not plain grey but have a bit of green and red)
    Here\'s the result:




    BTW the guy paint better than me looking at the other miniatures in his gallery... just this one is not painted in B&W :)

  13. #13

    Default

    I personally think that the Photoshop conspiracy theories are a touch overstated. Why on earth would any of these excellent painters need to tamper so heavily with their stuff?

  14. #14

    Default

    So show us a pic of her un-PS\'d.

    Most people do her showing very little skin. Looks from this like you\'ve done her in a much more revealing outfit.

  15. #15

    Default

    :) Still in WIP... I\'m writing a tutorial and I dont know if I can show her now.. I have to ask.
    :D

  16. #16

    Default

    yeah, blending from black to white isn\'t that tough really, I have no doubt this painter can do that.

    However it does take different photography skills to capture BW vs. Color, and I think the photo he put up of this mini is rather poor. Very dark and does not accent the contrasts in tone.

  17. #17

    Default

    Dragonpaint: I\'m not quite following you. The miniature you submitted is perfectly in B&W. Any colours you see is just a trick of the eye.

    If I would investigate such a matter I would think rationally. What is this artist motives?

    I submit a picture of a miniature made to my girlfriend. I paint it in colour.. but hey I just need to make it B&W for whatever reason and so that people won\'t suspect me I give the entire miniature the tone as if it was photographed under a 930 fluorecent lamp. This I do while I can in fact do incredible smooth paintjobs scoring 9+ and I actually came second in Rackham Open.

    I\'ve checked this photo and by oversaturating the image other colours come out, which they don\'t if you for use a tool for colouring the entire miniature like \"photo filter\" (I can post the difference). If he cheats he has got to make thin layers of different colours onto the miniature, and I don\'t see the point.

  18. #18

    Default

    Originally posted by Avelorn
    Dragonpaint: I\'m not quite following you. The miniature you submitted is perfectly in B&W. Any colours you see is just a trick of the eye.
    Sorry, maybe I gave the impression to have something against this guy and this is not true.
    Dragonsreach asked an opinion about the picture and I just wrote my opinion, it SEEMS converted in a sort of greyscale.
    I have posted a converted picture just to show that the result is similar (maybe I have to add some more green in the gradient map) but if you say that I\'m wrong I can trust you wothout problems :)

    In this case the paintjob is really well done and deserve a full 9 for me :)

  19. #19

    Default

    :] *hug*

    I must admit I get easily ticked off when it comes to subjects like this. I think some people have had a tendency to judge other people\'s work as cheating far too lightly. Even when I\'ve seen the actual miniature IRL and I don\'t think it looks the same in picture I don\'t pass judgement. I\'ve taken too many digital photos that turned out wierd, seen too many examples what ropey cameras can do. And above all.. how different miniatures looks in different lightingconditions. Cheating for me is like.. the lowest of the low, I take it very seriosly (maybe too seriously??). So before saying anything I try to remove all other possibilities. Maybe other people have a more relaxed relation to it?

    I think it is a very good idea, like Mike did, to write a topic about the miniature in question so that you can discuss it. Or just talk with any photoshop expert. Of course.. everything is more or less possible to do in PS, but some things might be less likely.

  20. #20

    Default

    Having done quite a bit of black and white work on canvas, paper, and mini\'s, one thing I can say is that black and white are VERY seldom black and white. There is almost always a leaning towards certain colors and when you shoot something you will also, frequently pick up just a touch of ambient color. To see a TRUELY B+W seems a bit odd. Not saying it cant be done but it would be rare.

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