Golgotha by Victor Hardy - Page 5
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Thread: Golgotha by Victor Hardy

  1. #81
    Molebrain
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    Originally posted by Spacemunkie
    Originally posted by Malfoy
    ...art should never be, in any way, offensive or provacative. Artists should never attempt to illict a reaction through their work and, most importantly, we should never have to question our own sensibilities.
    What a load of bollocks! That statement almost perfectly sums up why most artists do what they do!! Artists have historically challenged the status quo and railled against the establishment. German Expressionists during the Third Reich and the Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution are just two examples where artists have used their work to illicit a reaction.

    That\'s not to mention all the \'concept\' stuff that\'s been done over the years where the only premise of it is to illicit a reaction.
    I\'m pretty sure he\'s being sarcastic there.

    Zach

  2. #82

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    Yeah, sorry Spacemunkie..I agree. I think that was meant to be severe sarcasm.

    I think this is an interesting topic, but I agree also with the sentiments that were stated earlier....For all the hype that surrounded this piece, I don\'t think it lives up to it.

    I stated earlier that it is offensive, and that is most likely the point of it. I take nothing away from the technical skill of Mr. Hardy, but I also find it akin to what a Shock Jock or Marilyn Manson does. Being shocking just to illicit a response. Not that there is anything wrong with it, it is still a valid form of expression.


  3. #83

  4. #84
    Malfoy
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    Spacemunkie,
    Next time I\'ll be more explicit in my sarcasm. Sorry you took me literally. I feel like Jonathan Swift getting hate mail from people who thought he really wanted to eat babies. But yeah, I was being sarcastic.

    Dave

  5. #85

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    I think cosidering the ripping apart this mini has had & the upset generated from its appearance it might be nice if the subject was closed after Victor was given the final word to end it all . Lets not forget this artist poured 600 hrs ? off his life into a mini and its been publically pulled to pieces, lets just STOP for a second & ask ourselves how we would feel if we were in his shoes.I am in awe of his patience & his perserverance lets now give the man a break !Well done Victor on your award . GOD bless ..........VINCENTI :(

  6. #86

    Default uhm

    was Victor trying to say something? :)

    Sanjay

  7. #87

    Default

    Spit it out Victor lol

    It\'s a damned good piece, plain and simple. That\'s enough for me.

  8. #88

    Default

    Originally posted by vincenti
    I think cosidering the ripping apart this mini has had & the upset generated from its appearance it might be nice if the subject was closed after Victor was given the final word to end it all . Lets not forget this artist poured 600 hrs ? off his life into a mini and its been publically pulled to pieces, lets just STOP for a second & ask ourselves how we would feel if we were in his shoes.I am in awe of his patience & his perserverance lets now give the man a break !Well done Victor on your award . GOD bless ..........VINCENTI :(
    Not sure he should feel too bad, or we can feel all that bad for him honestly, it\'s sitting at 9.7 on the site. In addition the piece was obviously made to spur conversation and would seem almost a shame if everyone just ignored it.

    What I am seeing that I think is funny, is that people seem keep assuming that if someone doesn\'t like the imagery they are offended on the bases of their religious values. Reading through the thread I don\'t see anyone really saying the piece offends them in that way or that the subject matter of the piece stirs religious controversy (in fact post like Tagrons say exactly the opposite). I definately think it is not exactly the DaVinci code of minis despite some trying to elevate it to that level. It doesn\'t particularly get people to reexamine their faith, or question the foundation on which that faith rests.

    What I do see is rather that people think it is simply in bad taste to combine the imagery in this way. And it\'s in bad taste precisely because it does it in a way, that does not stir any actual religious controversy, or cause people to question their religious values. Religious imagery is a powerful tool for inspiring human emotions, but I think the reason that this piece is getting so much talk is not because of the emotions it has stirred up, but rather that for all the imagery packed into it, it manages to stir up almost none.

  9. #89

    Default

    I think I follow you Eric lol

    About that pint...

  10. #90

    Default

    Originally posted by hashmallumPeople stick the sign of PIESCES (fish) and cross on their cars ,. Isn\'t this a blasphemy?
    Actually, it\'s not piesces, it\'s ICHTHES (greek for fish).
    The fish is a Christian symbol because the first two letters of the greek word are the initials of \"Jesus Christ.\"

  11. #91
    Malfoy
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    but I think the reason that this piece is getting so much talk is not because of the emotions it has stirred up, but rather that for all the imagery packed into it, it manages to stir up almost none.
    I think you\'re 100% wrong there and I\'ll tell you why in anecdotal form.

    At Adepticon a couple years ago, Victor had brought the model to help teach one of his classes. We were headed out to dinner before his class and my girlfriend met us at the hotel. I told her that before we left, she needed to see the figure. Later, after Victor gave a \"tour\" of the model I asked her what she thought and she described it as \"dark\" and the imagery as \"disturbing.\" This from a non-hobbyist. I\'m sure we\'d all like to be able to illicit a response like that with our painting. So when you claim that the model fails to stir any emotions, I feel I have to correct you. That is not at all the case.

    Dave

  12. #92

    Default

    Originally posted by Malfoy
    Spacemunkie,
    Next time I\'ll be more explicit in my sarcasm. Sorry you took me literally. I feel like Jonathan Swift getting hate mail from people who thought he really wanted to eat babies. But yeah, I was being sarcastic.

    Dave
    Heh, tbh I thought you we\'re being serious too :) I feel foolish now, but it\'s not all my fault (I have been on mini sites for a while, you can never tell what moronic opinions are actually real) :D

  13. #93

    Default

    Originally posted by Malfoy
    Spacemunkie,
    Next time I\'ll be more explicit in my sarcasm. Sorry you took me literally. I feel like Jonathan Swift getting hate mail from people who thought he really wanted to eat babies. But yeah, I was being sarcastic.

    Dave
    My apologies :D

    I hadn\'t wiped the snot out of me eyes this morning!!!

    The most offensive thing about the mini:
    \"My favorite part is the back of the banner, which I think captures the look,
    lighting and feel of an ancient oil painting done in the tradition of the
    old “Realism” masters of the 15-18th century.\"

    Knackers does it!

  14. #94
    Malfoy
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    No apologies necessary, SM! Dammekkos is right, you never know what to expect from people. I should monitor my sarcasm though- it comes from watching too much \'Colbert Report.\'

    D

  15. #95

    Default

    Originally posted by Malfoy
    but I think the reason that this piece is getting so much talk is not because of the emotions it has stirred up, but rather that for all the imagery packed into it, it manages to stir up almost none.
    I think you\'re 100% wrong there and I\'ll tell you why in anecdotal form.

    At Adepticon a couple years ago, Victor had brought the model to help teach one of his classes. We were headed out to dinner before his class and my girlfriend met us at the hotel. I told her that before we left, she needed to see the figure. Later, after Victor gave a \"tour\" of the model I asked her what she thought and she described it as \"dark\" and the imagery as \"disturbing.\" This from a non-hobbyist. I\'m sure we\'d all like to be able to illicit a response like that with our painting. So when you claim that the model fails to stir any emotions, I feel I have to correct you. That is not at all the case.

    Dave
    I don\'t know if someone being disturbed is all that important a reaction. It\'s EASY to disturb people, or to offend people. What is hard (and valuable) is to disturb or offend and then get them re-evaluate their thoughts and feelings on the subject.

  16. #96
    Malfoy
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    I don\'t know if someone being disturbed is all that important a reaction. It\'s EASY to disturb people, or to offend people. What is hard (and valuable) is to disturb or offend and then get them re-evaluate their thoughts and feelings on the subject.
    Eric,
    I think being disturbed is a very important reaction when your goal is to disturb people! In fact, you might even say that if you\'re trying to disturb people and then those people are disturbed, you\'ve been successful. Pretty simple, right?

    And if you\'re saying Victor\'s piece fails because it hasn\'t made people re-evaluate their faith, then I\'m at a real loss to understand your expectations.

    I don\'t really want to argue and we all agree it\'s completely subjective and we are certainly entitled to our opinions (I, personally, thought you\'re work at the L.A. Games Day was far and away the most inspired). But I have to disagree with your premise that this piece fails to illicit any valuable response.

    Dave

  17. #97

    Default

    You know what would make this figure more disturbing?

    Bears.

  18. #98

    Default

    Originally posted by Malfoy

    Eric,
    I think being disturbed is a very important reaction when your goal is to disturb people! In fact, you might even say that if you\'re trying to disturb people and then those people are disturbed, you\'ve been successful. Pretty simple, right?

    And if you\'re saying Victor\'s piece fails because it hasn\'t made people re-evaluate their faith, then I\'m at a real loss to understand your expectations.

    I don\'t really want to argue and we all agree it\'s completely subjective and we are certainly entitled to our opinions (I, personally, thought you\'re work at the L.A. Games Day was far and away the most inspired). But I have to disagree with your premise that this piece fails to illicit any valuable response.

    Dave
    Well, in another example, there was once this website cumonbabyjesus.com, which someone set up, and made quite disturbing, basically the goal (which was stated) was to be so disturbing that some christian group would purchase the domain from them to take it down. I don\'t see a real point or value to just being able to disturb someone without a real message behind it. In other words, how I see it, is that being disturbing is what catches someones attention, but what\'s important is the message you deliever once you have their attention.

    Now if you read back a ways, I already have mentioned there is brilliance shown in this piece, and it does catch the attention obviously. I am just yet to see anyone then figure out what the message actually is once he has our attention.

    Some people have called this a true work of art and that is what I am debating, not the fact that it is a brilliantly painted miniature (which is obviously is). To me (since I agree it\'s completely subjective), I do not elevate this to the level of an important/thought provoking piece of art. To me, it is another mini in which the imagery chosen actually detracts from my enjoyment of it.

    And my expectation is not to have people reevaluate their faith, but rather that something, anything interesting is said on the subject of faith, since their is so much religious imagery used.

    PS: Thanks for the comment about my LA entry :)

  19. #99

    Default

    I cannot thank everyone enough on this forum for them holding back and not publishing photos of my mini so that I could have another chance to compete in a Golden Demon.
    My only question on this whole thing is the above. Why does not putting photos online make a difference in being able to enter again in a later Gamesday? I\'ve seen plenty of folks who post before entering and still place... Tagron, for example, posted his dwarf from GDLA a month or so in advance. Happens all the time.

    For the piece itself, I think it\'s highly appropos for a Word Bearers daemon. I\'m probably going to try to copy some of the knotwork on a figure of my own this afternoon. I had no emotions generated by the piece beyond the usual \"that\'s a nicely done figure\" sort of awe and respect, however.

    Kep

  20. #100
    Malfoy
    Guest

    Default

    First, Matt, you\'re right. Bears are this nation\'s number one problem and they\'re on notice!

    Second, Eric, I think that when Victor gets a chance to explain what he was doing with the piece (drawing parallels between Christianity and 40K\'s Imperial Cult) you\'ll find that not only was he successful, but that it was well-executed and appropriate. It tells a story and certainly isn\'t just controversial for the sake of controversy. But I\'m sure VH is preparing a \"tour\" of the model. Until that happens it\'s really out of context for people.

    And things should be in context otherwise they just look like Mohammed with a turban-bomb, right?

    dave

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