Sometimes you have to bite the bullet……………..
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Thread: Sometimes you have to bite the bullet……………..

  1. #1
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Default Sometimes you have to bite the bullet……………..

    Today I’ve had to do something I really was dreading having to do, but I‘ve had to have a very long discussion with another manager about one of their staff and their failure to be “Fit for Purpose”.

    Basically over the last 6 weeks of their temporary employment this person has had one of my technicians called into correct “Machine Faults”, each one of which turned out to be User Error / Carelessness, virtually every day. Last Friday I ended up dealing with 5 separate incidents of this person’s inability to use a mouse with care and attention, in place of my technician. (Now I’ve had issues with this person in the past, before they were on a temporary employment basis, and I held back making any comment due to my personal dislike for them and their attitude, not wanting to allow personal feeling to colour my opinion in the matter.)
    But since the area this person has been working in, deals with Children’s Education Information and crucial documentation as well as Extremely Confidential I was deeply concerned.

    Yesterday after spending over 2 hours attending to the same problems and getting sarcastic comments from this user, my technician made a formal complaint to me detailing the level of the issues he’s had and I’ve acted on it.

    As I said, I arranged the discussion with their manager and to be honest, I was dreading it. However, it turns out I’m not the only one with problems with this person and that the issue with my technician had been noted.

    My discussion has in fact prompted some serious action and now this user is no longer employed.

    To be honest It’s a result I did not expect, and although I feel some relief that my technician will not be faced with the constant harassment of this individual and that the Data is protected, and I know as a manager I’ve done the right thing. But someone has lost their employment because of my action, and I feel somewhat lousy.

    I was wondering if anyone’s ever been in the same situation and felt the same?

  2. #2

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    I\'ve been in similar situations, but it boils down to this:
    You didn\'t hire the incompetent moron. You merely helped get rid of someone who was endangering the workplace, and in turn your job.

    As an IT, the Confidential Data ultimately is your responsibility, this person was a direct threat to the confidentiality of this data, which if breached, could lead to massive lawsuits, and unemployment of the entire department.

    You did the right thing. You did the responsible thing.

  3. #3

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    Originally posted by Dragonsreach
    But someone has lost their employment because of my action, and I feel somewhat lousy.
    bullshit man. he lost his job because of his actions. what an arsewipe. you shouldn\'t feel guilty in the slightest - in fact, by the sounds of it, you have saved a lot of lot of effort in dealing with this moron

  4. #4

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    my dad had a simulator test when he joined a new airline, but the guy was really tight and my dad made o \"formal complaint\" then the guy got promoted to training leader of the airport. oh dear.:(

  5. #5

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    Originally posted by DragonsreachLast Friday I ended up dealing with 5 separate incidents of this person’s inability to use a mouse with care and attention,
    That sounds really odd. How hard is it to use a mouse and what could that person have possibly done with a mouse that required so much assistance?
    However, it turns out I’m not the only one with problems with this person and that the issue with my technician had been noted.
    This is usually the case. People who are not a good fit usually bump into a lot of corners.

    But someone has lost their employment because of my action, and I feel somewhat lousy.
    It may help to know that if the person was performing so badly, (s)he was likely not happy in the job to begin with.
    If it is any consolation, I have never fired anyone, but I have been fired (I think you call it sacked).
    I got fired from my job of framing posters and the net result is that I am now a lawyer.
    Getting fired was very good for me.

  6. #6

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    mike

    i totally know what this is like. being a teacher i have to deal with helping of hiring ppl and such. especially teacher aids. the problem is that many times you feel as if you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. another thing to consider is that it could be karma coming back to him. this could be used to teach him a valuable lesson for his next job and it might turn out better for him in the end too.

    i wouldnt just say BULLOCKS!! feel good about your decision and know that in the end it is for the best for all involved.


  7. #7

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    (we\'re waiting for some vendor response for the DST thing, so where am I? CMON!)

    Yes, I know what you are talking about.

    Some of my own coworkers have serious technical deficiencies, and end up passing things they they are supposed to do on others because they can\'t figure out the simplest of problems. The more capable employees don\'t have the patience to walk the other person repeatedly through the simplest of tasks so they just do the work.

    I was torn between desperately wanting one of these people to get discovered and canned over their incompetence, but at the some time feeling terribly guilty about wanting that. This is another person we\'re talking about, and I had compassion for them irregardless of how much of a personal strain they caused me.

    I\'ve seen plenty of people fired from one job go on to be successful at another. It sounds like you had an awful lot of patience about allocating your resources to this person, so you certainly took the high road. I think it\'s important to remember that if you were costing your company considerably more than your value there, they would probably get rid of you. It sound like this person had plenty of time to get off the track, and they ignored the train.

    At least you didn\'t have to perform the actual firing. I\'d have a very hard time with that.

  8. #8

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    An employment situation is a two way street. The boss needs to run a responsible and competent business and the employee needs to also be competent and responsible. It\'s a rather simple transaction there. If one or the other dosent meet the criteria then a parting of the ways shouldn\'t be a surprise......if your employee isn\'t cutting it then it\'s incumbent on THEM to either improve or move on to where what they do know fit\'s. No reason to feel bad for simply upholding a responsible principal.

    I had to fire someone one time and the person literally wailed in front of a room full of other employees. I didn\'t have fun doing it but the person was on drugs and did poor work.......not my problem.

  9. #9
    I paint my thumb. GreenOne's Avatar
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    I\'ve been fired from a few jobs, always for similar reasons... and I don\'t feel bitter towards my old employers.
    Business is like that, it has to cold and efficient,
    and to transcend your personnal feelings good or bad. You do what you need to do, I do what I need to do.

    I guess if it wasn\'t him, it could have been you, if something bad happened and you we\'re responsible, you could have lost your job. And I am sure that guy wouldn\'t feel bad about it.
    In fact, as far as employment fidelity ( Not sure of the \'legal\' term.) is concerned, you we\'re basically obligated to inform the manager about this, bacause that guy\'s action were threatening to the well being of your company.

  10. #10

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    You definatly did the right thing people are responsible for their own actions, sometimes its hard but im sure you would have felt worse if you had not.

  11. #11
    Coffin Dodger / Keymaster airhead's Avatar
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    Mike, don\'t feel bad. Bad is working construction and laying off whole crews at the first of December because the weather has moved in. Not their fault, not yours, but there is no work to keep them on the payroll for and no Christmas for those families.

    I\'ve grown up with that reality.

    Fired guys for showing up late at important dates. Once in a while is understandable, but constant is a disregard to you and the other workers.

    I\'ve got two workers now that I am either going to break their bad habits or replace them. They do good work, but won\'t follow up with the reports. Either they change or they are not fit to do this work and need to find something else to do.

    Me, I\'m still not sure what I want to be when I grow up, but I was looking for a job when I found this one.

    Have a drink for me. Shrug your shoulders and move on knowing you did that person and the company the right thing. As was said, this person should have been able to see the writing on the walls if their performance was that bad.

  12. #12
    Brushlicker Valander's Avatar
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    Mike, I understand how you feel. It\'s rough to be in that position of feeling \"responsible\" for getting someone fired.

    But, as others have said, you didn\'t get him fired, he did. For whatever reasons, he wasn\'t capable of doing his job, and you and your technicians wound up with the short end of the stick. However, as you found out, your team wasn\'t the only one that wound up having issues with this guy, and that\'s the real reason he was terminated.

    Where I am now is a great company, and it\'s interesting that they are most definitely not afraid to terminate someone if they can\'t cut the mustard. That\'s a well known policy (in fact, there are occasional jokes about the reactions interviewees have when they\'re told, \"Yeah, so if you can\'t cut it after you\'re here, we will fire you.\"), and interestingly enough, it\'s got a positive impact rather than a negative one. Because everyone knows that there are standards, and that everyone who is still here must be meeting them, there\'s a lot more collaboration and teamwork going on.

    In short, yeah, it feels cruddy to have to terminate someone, but you have to keep in mind that it wasn\'t some kind of \"I just hate this guy because of the way he eats his sandwich,\" but that he was screwing up. When someone screws up, there are consequences, and in the workplace that often means termination.

  13. #13

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    Lurch and now Valander!!

    Are we having a CMoN Reunion?

  14. #14
    Arkzein
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    Been in a very similar situation myself. Worked in a CD factory for a time to help me through university so can empathise with \"machine faults\" coming from user errors, one guy we worked with was a bit slow, not too bad of a sort at heart but had the tendancy to think himself right all the time, be more than a little arogant about it and not the type of person you\'d generally want to have a conversation with. (Bad to say it but \"oddball\" was probably the most apt term, don\'t think he could manage social situations, few of the staff got on with him).

    In any case he not only couldn\'t do his own job, and thought he did it better than everyone else, he did the same for others going so far as to take on the technicians work \"fixing\" things. The rest of us pretty much tried to work around him and cover somewhat, guess feeling sorry for the guy, but eventually there was a massive problem with one of the machines (Not one he should have been working on, mine in fact) and it was obvious it was been hampered with far beyond even the scope the tecnicans would have went to.

    Getting pulled into that room with the top brass, knowing I had to land him in it to save my own job, I think \"dreading it\" describes things for me as well, especially given I\'d tried to at least be civil to him given the outright hostility he had started to generate from others. Once I\'d said what happened all the other incidents came out and the guy was given the sack later that day. Knowing he was in no way suited for the work didn\'t make me feel any better, neither did the fact it would be a complete shock to him as despite us telling him to the contrary, he thought he was more adept than anyone else. (Especially given the guy had a gambling problem, a family and had recently last a massive bet).

    There\'s not too much you can do about other people though, and I certainly wouldn\'t worry over it too much. Of course feeling bad about it is only human, but sounds like you\'ve made the effort and the guy eventually just dug himself a hole too big, as was the case in the above.

  15. #15
    Brushlicker Valander's Avatar
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    Originally posted by supervike
    Lurch and now Valander!!

    Are we having a CMoN Reunion?
    Heh... slow day at the moment while I\'m waiting for a new software build to beat on. ;)

    HIJACK ALERT!
    Sorry I haven\'t been around for a while, but been really busy with new (and kick-ass) job and just bought a house. Hopefully things will settle down soon and I can get back to tweening things... :P

  16. #16

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    Mike, almost the same thing has just happened where I work. A bloke has been simply inept at doing his job, neither timeous nor was it of any quality - over a year\'s worth of his work has been thrown down the drain. This was one of the factors that caused an entire 2-year project to be abandoned, one which I have been asked to revive. And revive it I will, it will be a success.

    But, the point is that he let down the entire company, delayed opportunities, destroyed shareholder confidence, and so on... I have no sympathy for him. A slovenly and slobbish character that we are best to do without. The same should go for you too, Mike.

  17. #17

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    Originally posted by Modderrhu
    A slovenly and slobbish character that we are best to do without. The same should go for you too, Mike.
    This could be taken very much out of context. :o lol

  18. #18
    Brushlicker johnboyjjb's Avatar
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    Having been on both ends of this situation, I certainly prefer firing then getting fired. We had a guy working on brakes on cars and screw something up almost daily. After 3 months of him screwing things up he finally cost the company too much money and we fired him. My boss didn\'t know it, but this kid was a busboy and his own father had fired him for being incompetent. Incompetence is never acceptable. (Except in politics. There are no other options to accept)

    I got fired for poor sales as a service manager in a store that had poor sales for the last 3 years. I was brought in to turn it around but wasn\'t allowed any financing to advertise. My sales plans were mocked and when then store turned a $70k loss I was held to blame. Despite the fact that the owner had written a $60k check for a phone book ad that I didn\'t authorize or want. The guy they put in there to replace me, isn\'t doing any better, and next year, he will be gone too.

    Airhead reminded me of when I worked at CompUSA. They announced massive layoffs. No matter the capabilities of the employees, if you had specific job titles you were done. The Sales Manager went through and reclassified all of the employees that he wanted to keep throughout the night. Some of us, myself included, walked in that Friday with a job title and position that we weren\'t qualified for, had no training to do, and didn\'t know if we could perform, but we still had jobs. Things got settled back to normal after about a month.

  19. #19

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    I once had a really bright student who never did any work (okay, I\'ve had such students many times actually). She was the kind of student who could have had straight As with comparatively little effort, but she couldn\'t be bothered. Every semester, I would talk to her about it, and she would always say that she was lazy, really liked the subjects wanted to learm etc. And then she would say that she just needed to stop being so lazy. In time, I remember telling her I didn\'t think she was lazy at all. I thought if she really wanted to be in school, lazyness wouldn\'t have been a factor. That only becomes an issue when you really want to be doing something else instead of what you\'ve commited yourself to do. The problem wasn\'t temporary; it was chronic. And I couldn\'t help but think she\'d have been better off quitting and getting on with her life doing somethinge else, something that wouldn\'t seem like such a chore. If semester after semester she couldn\'t get it together enough to learn the material and pull a decent grade, the obvious conclusion was that she was not interested in being a student.

    Any more that\'s the way I feel about chronic non performance, including a few phases of my own life. There comes a time when you have to realize it reflects a deeper problem. And if someone consistently can\'t bring themselves to do the job they have set for themselves, then odds are very good they don\'t want to be doing that job after all.

    Small comfort, I know, but that\'s the impression I get when I read your story. If the guy can\'t pull it together after all that time, odds are pretty good he doesn\'t want to be there after all.

  20. #20

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    Dude, I think it has to be said that the thing that separates him from you is, he felt NO remorse at being a complete @rse in the workplace not doing the job properly and letting everyone else down, but you feel guilty about contributing them to lose their livelihood, even though it was negatively impacting upon you and your business workings.

    That makes you a better person for the job, showing your consideration of other human beings. Whereas the other had no concern for anyone beyond his own selfish needs, which result in a lack of consideration of others.

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