Archaon vs. Valten battle
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Thread: Archaon vs. Valten battle

  1. #1

    Default Archaon vs. Valten battle

    I need help quick. Pretty soon I\'m going to play a 3000pt battle with my chaos army against an empire army. I\'m using Archaon and he\'s using Valten (second form) just to check out who actually wins this. The only problem I have is that I don\'t know what to use in my army! I almost never win a battle, but I sure as hell want to win this one! So please any help is welcome. (I have about everything at my disposal except mounted deamonettes and furies).

  2. #2


    come on! can\'t anyone help me? I\'m pretty sure I\'ll be facing 2 cannons, a mortar and a hellblaster.

  3. #3


    I\'d love to help you, but i will not :D For two reasons:
    First one I don\'t know the chaos army list
    And second one I play Empire so I say go empire !! :P
    But I shall give you some advice: Watch out for the valten, he is one mean character :flip:

  4. #4


    Oké this is my army list:
    *Mounted chaos sorcerer with 2 dispel scrolls and the lore of fire
    *5 chosen knights of chaos with war banner
    *2 units of 6 warhounds
    *2 units of 16 marauders with full command, shield and light armour
    *12 chaos warriors of blood with great weapons, shield and full command
    *5 marauder horsemen with shield and throwing axes
    *15 bloodletters with full command
    *5 screamers
    *4 nurgling bases
    *dragon orge shaggoth champion of blood with great weapon and light armour

    That gives a total of 3002pts
    Casting pool: 6
    Dispel pool:6
    Models: 94

    So what do you guys think?

  5. #5

    Default Sorry to say...

    But most of us here on CMON don\'t know so much about gaming. Or if we do, it\'s often about alternative game systems. I think if you want to get some useful critique of you\'re list, you should post it on another forum too.

  6. #6

    Default i don\'t understand...

    DennisMech, are you insinuating that some people play some sort of games with the miniatures?


    I guess that would explain those rather thick books that come with the sets of miniatures I buy. lol

  7. #7

    Default I..I think so

    I once went to my local GW, and I saw people rolling these strange spotted cubes. Every so often they\'d consult their books and smile as they proclaimed their models could do some strange feat. Then they yould move the models arbitrarily around the table, as they rolled more spotted cubes, resulting in them either becoming very pleased, or very angry (the \"gamers\"). weirdest thing I ever saw :D

  8. #8


    Hmmph, well anyway.....I game just as much as I paint, and play both Empire and Chaos, so I\'ll attempt some advice.

    I\'d drop the chosen knights
    They\'re going to attract every cannonball, helblaster shot and \'no armour saves\' spell your opponent can throw at them

    I reckon the best way to beat empire is to have large infantry blocks who can survive thewalk across the battlefield. Such as marauders (great weapons/flails are good)

    If you really want to keep those knights in (I assume they are for archaon to lead) then make sure they are well screened by warhounds, although this won\'t help them against cannons or spells.

    It\'s worth noting that the current Valten, while good, and very compenent against \'normal\' characters, is still no match for archaon.

    \'Unleash that daemon sword and kick his ass\'

    In a thouroughly sporting and friendly way of course .............. ;)

  9. #9


    Thanks for the advice, but I\'ve adjusted my list a bit.

    This is it:

    *Archaon (855pts)
    *5 chosen chaos knights with: full command and war banner (will be led by archaon I think, not sure) (300pts)
    *Chaos lord with: chaos runeshield, great fang and mark of Tzeetch (will join the chosen warriors) (450pts)
    *11 chosen chaos warriors with: mark of Tzeentch, full command, shields and blasted standard (5+ ward save) (331pts)
    *2 units of 7 warhounds (45pts each)
    *16 chaos warriors with: full command, shields and great weapons (302pts)
    *16 chaos warriors with: full command and shields (270pts)
    *15 bloodletters with full command (275pts)
    *4 screamers (132pts)

    Points: 2999
    Casting pool: 9
    Dispel pool: 5
    Models: 84

  10. #10


    i dont think this will be an effective force against the empire, i think your numbers are to small for a 3000pt army and quite slow, your going to be ripped apart by the warmachines in all liklihood and have very little left by the time you get into close combat, i think you need to drop one unit of warriors in favour of cheaper cannon fodder, those units of warhounds are to small to be very effective in imo, lose 2 to missile fire then there probably going to panic and break.

  11. #11


    I have to agree with Calebdark. The 2-3 turns it\'s going to take you to get across the battlefield is going to get you pasted so that when you get there, you won\'t be able to break him convincingly. My personal experience with Chaos is since you have no shooting, but amazing strength in HtH, every turn not in combat is one utterly wasted. need to get there as fast as freaking possible. Also, you need to make sure that you are well defended against magic. I think it\'s too expensive and too unreliable to really waste points in trying to be super offensive with it (miscast and end your phase and do nothing for that turn with all your magic? done that before) I played a dozen games with my foot slogging chaos. Got shot up for 3 turns and by the time I got to those turtle poops I got smacked. After going my fast army, I haven\'t lost! You need to be in combat from turn 2 on. Unfortunately the furies and mounted daemonettes would have been some of the stuff I would have suggested, but there is still lots of love out there. If I was going to bump up my current super fast chaos army to 3,000 points and include Archaon, it would go like this.

    4 Chosen Swords of Chaos (real beatsticks) w/ war banner
    2 Chaos Sorcerers loaded with scrolls
    5 Chaos Knights
    2 Chariots (I like the mark of Khorne on them for the extra S5 attacks and the dispel dice)
    8 warhounds
    10 warhounds
    5 Flesh hounds
    10 Furies
    4 Screamers
    4 Minotaurs , standard, xtra HW, Lt. Armour
    5 Mounted Deamonettes
    3 Dragon Ogres Lt armour, Great weapons for anything armored (for less than the Shaggoth you get 9 S7 attacks rather than just 5, and he has to do 12 wounds rather than 6 to take you out)

    So I counted that all up, and you are right there around 3,000. Big thing is that you have nothing that moves slower than 6\" and you WILL be on him turn 2. You have so many things that will kill his warmachines. Furies, flesh hounds, Screamers, Deamonettes... You do end up with less models, but the important thing is everything you have hits hard and moves fast. Plus you will be able to manuver and pick your battles because you won\'t have clogged up the board. Chaos armies are always small becuase they\'re expensive. You have so many nasty things on the board that he won\'t know what to shoot. Good luck and get on him! Let us know how it goes.

  12. #12


    Thanks. If I had the models I would try your list, because it really looks like a good one and it\'s FAST!!!
    I\'ll let you guys know how it went. But it\'s still about 6weeks until we battle, first were still have to play 2 senarios of a campaign, so...

  13. #13


    From my understanding - the units of warriors at 16 strong are woefully under strength - as a long time Empire follower (not player sadly) the basic advice for them is 25 figs per regiment at minimum (for your core infantry) and a lot of detachments. So if he\'s following that kind of advice then prepare to deal with getting flanked on an individual unit perspective plus you need to make sure your blocks get there as blocks or Empire forces will strip your rank bonus away faster than acid on a baby ...

  14. #14


    Yes, your units are far too small, and its far too character heavy.

    I understand taking Archaon, but you really don\'t need a second 450 point character. That makes the knight unit 750 points which is insane even in a 3000 pt battle. They simply will not be able to pay for themselves. You need larger cheaper units, ditch the lord, use the knights as flankers protected by scenery/warhounds and get some big units of warriors and marauders.

  15. #15


    What I would do is when you face your opponant, place a severed head on the table. If your opponant asks, refuse to comment.. if they keep asking just say you like to live by the philosophy \"If you can\'t beat them in the game, beat them in the parking lot\".. if they still press, freak out and say that was the last person who beat you in a game.

    It also helps if your opponant is about to do something you don\'t like.. just point at the head.

    It\'s not a great strategy, becasue it really depends on the fact that your opponant must not want to deal with a very very sore loser, or will intimate easy - and it relies on the avilability of a severed head. You can always fake it if you are sneaky by getting a short person who is slightly taller than the table you are playing on to simply put ketchup all over their neck and stand next to the table starring at the ceiling.

  16. #16


    it relies on the avilability of a severed head
    LOL!lol Just point to the head when you disagree.... I would do this every game except severed heads are hard to come by in my neck of the woods.

  17. #17


    well, maybe I\'ll sound a bit self confident, but i think you\'ll have seious troble if you use that. I don\'t have The army buider here but I\'ll try to include.

    1 Exalted Daemon. Level 1.
    Soul Hunger
    Spell Breaker

    2 Units of Mounted Daemonettes

    1 Unit of 6 Furies

    1 Unit of Screamers I\'d use 4, maybe 5 if you have enough points.

    1 Unit of Beast Herd

    1 Nurgling Base

    (Count Special Units, don\'t know the maximum at 3000 points, if there are too many take out the nurglings)

    This way you\'ll have 5 units charging 50 cm, that will be DEATH to Empire shitties, and then will take Flanks and Backs, also the Exalted Daemon causes Terror, you MUST use something that causes terror... it\'s worth the pitty.

    Use Marauder Horsemen (1 or 2 units of 5 of them with that weapon that gives +2 STR the frist combat turn (don\'t know its name in english) with nothing more.

    Use Dragon Ogres, 3 of them with ONLY great weapon. I fyou can afford it use 2 units (don\'t know if it\'s possible at 3000 points.

    Use Minotaurs with great weapon ONLY.

    Warhounds are great to cover your units, use croups of 5, thay will be human shields, as the beast herd.

    Maybe a chaos charriot would be nice, but i\'d no use it, as he will use cannons and STR 10 will break it into pieces.

    Do NOT USE:

    Flesh Hounds
    Daemonettes (those on foot)
    Plague Bearers
    Chaos Warriors (Too explensive and slow)

    Try to stick up to this and you\'ll win for sure, try this one: Charge with the 2 mounted daemonettes to Valten\'s unit and with the Exalted Daemon, HE WILL KNOW WHAT TERROR IS. (-2 Leadership)

  18. #18


    Personally I\'d rather see these guys against an orc giant.

    I mean the horror of having a giant walking around with a archaon shaped lump in his trousers is just humiliating!

    Not to mention the so called \"reincarnation of the Emperor\" being sent to Reikland through \"air mail\" would just make me laugh like crazy.

  19. #19

    Default \'ere it goes

    This is more general info than specific since I\'ve never played against Empire, but I have played Chaos a lot.

    Do take the daemon, terror\'s a bitch for those pansy humans. Take it straight behind his lines to desory his fire power as well as some screamers, preferably 2 units, 1 for each flank.

    Make sure you have enough magic to stop his spells, don\'t go offensive.

    Take as many units of knights as humanly possible, you don\'t need to beef them up, they\'ll destroy whatever they come in contact with anyway.

    Chariots have always worked for me. And warhounds for shielding.

    Solid core units are good to fill out, since if you have his flanks busy, he can\'t shoot, and you\'ll actually be able to fight hand to hand.

    Kill Valten first, no strategic reason, he just deserves to die. And the more dead Valtens, the better victory for Chaos during the Storm of Chaos event this summer!

  20. #20

    Default curious...

    isn\'t valten version 2 really powerful? actually i felt it is really skewed...a valten versus archaon duel is a foregone conclusion of the winner and loser.

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