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  1. #41

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    I was under the impression that the plastic models would bring the price down but as far as I can tell it\'s not significantly different.

    I don\'t play Warhammer, I just like painting the minis.

    I guess I\'ll just stock up on whatever I think I might like to paint in the near to close future :(

  2. #42

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    meh two quid either way doesnt really bother me. i dont see the need to complain abot the prices, they are extortionate for what they are, but they can be very nice minis. gw are there to make money, and considering nobody ever says \"my god, i cant belive they\'re not charging us for using their tables and staying in their shop far longer than theres need to\" then i dont think we can moan about the fact they need to up prices to keep afloat. sure its not great, but if you dont like, then dont buy.

  3. #43
    Consummate Brushlicker Jericho's Avatar
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    The prices were down for a while... $25 for the new plastic Chaos Knights that used to be $65 or something like that. We\'ll see how they end up tho. Seems like some of the newer boxes won\'t be such a good deal anymore.

  4. #44

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    Have just been perusing what everybody has been saying here and tbh, it seems like everybody is blowing bubbles over something slight.

    I agree with what people are saying about Gw\'s outdated business model, and what demon said about how they should utilize the internet for sales as its more economically viable but on the other hand it takes away the communal game area for the Gw demographic as they more than likely dont have the space to have their own gaming boards etc but of course having Gw hobby centers which sell product for more than what is available elsewhere is always a losing scheme, but keeps a part of the consumer market loyal to the company just through its social importance to the hobby.

    As for the models, someone previously mentioned that the new plastic greatswords are £25 for 10? When i had an Empire army they were £15 for 5. Yes they were the metal versions, but ultimately you are getting more troops for your money despite material used to make them. If it cost me less i would have an entirely plastic army.

    Still overrall the best points that have been said are if we enjoy what we enjoy then we will keep buying it. We will all front the cash to indulge in our vices whatever they be.

  5. #45

    Default Good Wittle guys...

    I know nothing about how inflation works... but, it seems natural that GW minis are getting a little more exxy each year. I\'ll still buy the odd mini off \'em. I\'ve always liked some of GW\'s stuff.

    I\'d love to get my mitts on some old vintage GW stuff, especially the old 90\'s imperial SM\'s.

    I think GW has done a lot of things right in recent years. Combining a killer team of \'Eavy Metal painters is one of \'em. Their box-set of Empire Flaggelents was another. Really cool minis! And great fun to paint!

    Instead of bringing these threads down to the ol\' GW sux level, why don\'t we try to think of some positive things that we believe GW could do to make it better for all of us mini-painters/gamers. The GW dudes read these threads. (Well, I\'m guessing they do.) I\'m sure they\'d take some good honest suggestions into consideration.

    One I can think of, I\'d like it if GW released a range of old re-issue vintage minis that were available in stores. You know, the old classic orks, goblins etc. Also, why not make an exclusive painters range? Minis\' specially released for their awesome painting qualities. You could have the sheer clothing range, SENMM range etc... These would be minis sculpted with the painter in mind to use specific painting techniques on. Another thing I\'d like to see (or not to see) is so many darn skulls on my Space Marines. The amount of skulls on some of my individual blister metal SM\'s is just rediculous. While I will be filing and chopping \'em off during prep, I still feel that one or two skulls is enough. Actually, I\'d rather have no skulls.

    Anyway, just a few thoughts..

  6. #46
    Consummate Brushlicker Jericho's Avatar
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    You make some good points.

    I routinely cut/file off stupid crap from their minis, including the insane amount of skulls. The Chaos minis had a ton of spikes, horns and other crap cut off them before I painted my Tzeentch army for Fantasy.

    The range of minis for display rather than gaming has supposedly been in the works for ages now. Stuff like the new Orc Wyvern was supposed to be for this collector\'s range. Lots of these cool ideas seem to fade away into the night, sadly.

    Anyway I\'m quite certain that they are aware of much of the internet\'s rumblings. They\'d be crazy to ignore all the free market research that\'s just sitting there waiting on forums like this. And I know for a fact that Forgeworld guys browse the web because they took my idea of using FW Tarantula turrets for cooler looking Razorbacks, and then released a huge batch of new Razorback conversion kits a few years back :P

    Anyway bringing back some of the old classic minis once in a while would be sweet. They don\'t have to be a huge run or anything, but just spin up a few dozen/hundred of something rare and cool once in a while, for example do up some of the old special character models when an updated Codex/Army Book comes out? Can\'t be that hard. I doubt they destroyed all the old molds when they canned bitz order.

  7. #47

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    but I wonder what the cost of running out those old molds would be? Have they updated their mini presses to the \"1/16 counter left-handed lug nut\" VS. the \"1/16 counter RIGHT-handed lug\" that they used on the old plates? Plus, the quality of the older casts is, in most cases, not up to that of the newer ones, and who sinks money into an inferior product? Mind you, I would like to see some of the older stuff. Orks, back when they had some caritor and humor, but I think that those days are over. So brake out the green stuff! Cus\' the Mad boyz are back in town!

    @DR, No more armies...Yeah,right lol:D

    Anymore popcorn around?

  8. #48
    Shadzar
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    Originally posted by Harpo
    Originally posted by Dragonsreach

    Since I\'m not buying anymore armies and only buying what I intend to paint, I\'m being far more selective and therefore spending a lot less.
    Picking and choosing is the smart way to go.
    If that is an option that allows you to continue to play. How about those Sqauts players? How about any other player of a GW game that lost half its army due to being removed as options and needing to replace with new things to be WYSIWYG?

    What about cross product crap where you have to buy goblin riders from WFB to get the wolves for use with WH40K for your space wolves?

    Or the boxed sets of demons for Chaos army?

    The thing is, for players you can\'t always just pick and choose what to buy, because a lot of the ay GW has done lately literally makes you pick and choose to play and buy GW or not. That is doing them more harm than good. They drive customers away, and blame the customers for not needing new stuff.

    When I already have $3000 (USD) worth of armies, then why do I need to spend another $100 a month for more crap I have no room for?

    They are making the same mistakes as WotC with D&D and don\'t understand how the lifecycle they create for the product does not create a healthy environment in which to play or purchase the products.

    Rather than milking a subset that must buy new things for all they have in the shortterm prior to the failure of the business, they should lower the price to allow for more people to participate, and spend money, in order to make more profits over the long term.

    Needless to say I don\'t even play the what 5th edition rules and don\'t need to buy more GW product, but the blatant stupidity of the business model is what irks me.

    Instead of trying to make more per unit sold, then offer a reason to sell more units at the lower price. This has a greater effect on increasing sales to people. Also try a little market research to find out what people can afford especially in these times. SHEESH!

    So yeah, choosing is great for all but the players of GW games where you have little choice other than to just stop playing because some portion of your army was outmoded, and you likely HAVE to buy something to replace it.

    Mini painters in general may not have that much a problem with it.

  9. #49

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    Im finding it harder and harder to afford new GW models. I went in to GW Belfast wanting to start a new army. Usual buy the codex an hq and troop choice. When i asked the guy for some advice for a good army i had neary 300 pounds worth of Imperial Guard!!! I had 60 to spend........ So i left with nothing instead. Is it expensive to cast your own models :redface::redface::drunk:

  10. #50

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    Originally posted by Master of fact
    Im finding it harder and harder to afford new GW models. I went in to GW Belfast wanting to start a new army. Usual buy the codex an hq and troop choice. When i asked the guy for some advice for a good army i had neary 300 pounds worth of Imperial Guard!!! I had 60 to spend........ So i left with nothing instead. Is it expensive to cast your own models :redface::redface::drunk:
    It\'s not expensive. It\'s actually surprisingly easy if you have the proper materials -- it\'s also surprisingly illegal :P

  11. #51

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    Originally posted by PegaZus

    Revenue went from £53.9M to £61.2M for the six months ending November 30 (and I\'m probably mixing accounting standards in those numbers. Millions is what we\'re talking about). Their cost of sales went from £16.3M to £17.5M and operating expenses went from £37.6M to £40.4M.

    Percent wise, that\'s an increase in costs of less than 10% but an increase in revenue of nearly 20%. Their overall bottom line went from £0.1M LOSS to £1.5M PROFIT.

    That\'s not too shabby at all. Sounds like the wallets are voting in the affirmative.
    Those figures mask all sorts of ills, and this is my problem with GW: they\'re simply fire fighting at the moment.

    The improved figures are basically down to the massive cost cutting campaign (worth 2m a year if I remember correctly) they waged 12-18 months ago by closing stores, axing staff and reducing opening hours. They also cranked prices. Combined, the measures flatter to deceive.

    They\'ve also yet to fully feel the effects of the recession and I think cranking prices yet again might see them shed more sales. They\'ll also struggle to make such heavy cost reductions next time around.

  12. #52

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    Well they dont seem to be slowing down here in WA..... they just opened 3 new stores O_o

  13. #53

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    I\'d sure like to hear suggestions for a diffrenent course of action from GW from people who actually run businesses. I also love it when people say things like \"Mini company X didn\'t raise their prices\" when GW is still got a pretty big stranglehold on the market.

    I love GW, I respect they are in this for the money, and will gladly pay more bucks for their stuff. I feel quality is going up on the mini\'s and the other products like army books and rules are getting better all the time. War of the Ring seems very well done to me, for instance.

    White Dwarf sucks more then ever right now though. Dial it back to about 7 years ago and it was a real treasure.

    This price increases aren\'t being decided by the same guy\'s who try and sell 300 bucks worth of stuff to a guy with only 60 bucks. The high priced help at GW is making these decisions with the weight of people in the know. They\'ve been around for a long time and I think they\'ll continue.

    I think SpaceMunkie(???) hit in on the head when he said it smells like GW is just doing firefighting at the moment. Isn\'t that the way to go in hard times?

    Meh, I love these good old threads!

  14. #54

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    To put it into perspective, they turned over pretty much the same amount last year as they did in 2002 - about 110m.

    Last year they made 1.1m profit. In 2002 they made 13.5m profit.

    Now I don\'t have any old WD sitting around, but I\'d love to know how much, on average, GW products have increased in price. I\'d expect it to be somewhere in the region of 50-100%.

    How much LESS product must they be selling now? Very nearly half what they were doing a few years ago. The less product you sell, the more susceptible you are to market fluctuations. Raising your prices continually and IMO savagely at every opportunity is not going to address what really needs to happen: selling more gear!

    Their recession-hit figures are going to be interesting.

  15. #55

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    But isn\'t the fact that they made any profit at all last year a good sign of a sound business strategy? Seems most other businesses are posting losses and stuff.

    And that\'s my other problem about railing against GW, there really isn\'t another company to compare them too. If chrysler is losing money and Hyundai is making money you can do a little comparison as they\'re both big car dealers but who else is even close to comparison with what GW does?

    This is a real question to those that feel in the know.... what would you do in GW\'s shoes? Keep prices the same? Lower them? I don\'t know what the answer is but it seems to my eyes that if a company can manage to still even turn a marginal profit during these hard times when they\'re in an niche industry that is probably extremely hard hit during these times that someone in the ranks must be making sound decisions?

    Perhaps the focus should come of the retail stores they run and put more emphasis in other areas, but I don\'t know that the price hikes are the biggest issue I have with GW. I know that GW supports my LGS with service, prize support for events etc. unlike any three other companies combined. It\'s been amazing how readily GW has been there to keep the independent LGS happy. Maybe that\'ll change with GW Canada getting shut down, maybe not.

    I know I\'m strying from the OT but I still don\'t hold any negative issue with how GW prices their product and I think they provide the best gamer level service of any company I have been directly exposed to.

  16. #56

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    You should be able to compare GW to other Mini Companies and/or wargame companies.

    Vs. Rackham they seem to be doing rather well.

    Vs. Fantasy Flight they seem to be loosing the battle.

    Vs. Reaper - I have no clue, but I see lots or Reaper minis out there.

    Vs. Hasbro - don\'t think they are doing nearly as well.

  17. #57
    Consummate Brushlicker Jericho's Avatar
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    I think half the fun is that their cost cutting measures and other new-ish policies have alienated tons of core gamers.

    Having less product on the shelf and more from Mail Order makes sense on paper. Save money, less overhead, blah blah blah. In the end, you lose the ability to cash in on impulse buyers. I know a ton of people who regularly drive down to shops at double the speed limit when they have an idea for a new model. And lately they go home disappointed, since they aren\'t willing to wait 2-3 weeks to get their necessary blister pack delivered.

    They are also alienating their free advertising, ie. the higher quality in-store gamers and to some extent GD competitors. Gaming in stores is brutal here in Canada since they dropped their standards about WYSIWYG and having painted miniatures. The few remaining people that were genuinely fun to play with have fled from the hordes of unwashed gamers who don\'t put any effort in past their uber army lists.

    And with the loss of bitz order (which has been discussed to death elsewhere) you see both these core gamers who are willing to spend the extra cash to make a cool army, and the painters who are willing to spend the extra cash to win trophies feeling pretty pissed off at the world.

    I dunno. Everybody in the hobby knows about GW. I think they need to focus on continuing to bring in new gamers from similar markets, like they are doing through partnering with GOOD QUALITY video game companies like THQ and Mythic. The 3rd person shooter Space Marine game for Xbox will probably help generate some buzz, and with zero risk or cost out of pocket for GW. All they worry about is keeping things in line with established fluff and then they can sit back and count their cash.

    I have spent many hours talking with friends about GW and their policies (conveniently about half of us have worked for the company at one time or another!) and we simply don\'t have enough information to know why GW is failing to turn the profits they used to.

    I would love to know how much certain GW employees make, and how much profit/loss is involved in stuff like summer campaigns and White Dwarf magazine. I know it\'s nearly impossible to get solid figures on these things (because there are so many indirect causes for people buying product) but I\'d like to know :P

    I still think half their problem is the way they write the army books. Lately every list has had one super-amazing-fantastic unit that everyone has to have, and then a bunch of other stuff that pales in comparison. If you have multiple different but balanced units available for an army people might diversify and expand their collections... who knows maybe they\'d sell some Dark Elf models that aren\'t Black Guard and/or Hydras if they made the other ones worth taking lol

  18. #58

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    Originally posted by Gilvan Blight
    You should be able to compare GW to other Mini Companies and/or wargame companies.

    Vs. Rackham they seem to be doing rather well.

    Vs. Fantasy Flight they seem to be loosing the battle.

    Vs. Reaper - I have no clue, but I see lots or Reaper minis out there.

    Vs. Hasbro - don\'t think they are doing nearly as well.
    I think they\'re partnered to some degree with Fantasy flight. They Make Talisman for sure. BUt I still see WAY less fantasy flight stuff leave the LGS vs. GW. A small demographic for sure though. ANyone have any numbers?

    I think Hasbro is an unfair comparison as a whole, I\'d like to see the breakdown of the more specific related departments fo Hasbro vs. GW.

    I think Jericho touches on the core of the subject for me. Quality of continued army books etc. seems a little dissapointing and that may be a bigger problem for the core buyers then the price tag.

  19. #59

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    Down here you see way more Fantasy Flight then GW. That\'s kind of odd.

    A better comparison may be Privateer Press. I think they are doing way better then GW. I know for a fact they are locally. The main FLGS used to have maybe 15% of the store dedicated to GW. Now GW screwed the owner over so many times he decided to stop carrying their stuff (yet another reason they aren\'t doing well, messing with independent retailers). I convinced him to get in Privateer stuff and it\'s really taken off. About 40% of the store is Privateer stuff. Some of the boardgame stock (including Fantasy Flight for that matter) has been shoved out of the way for Hordes and/or Warmachine. The store also used to sell Reaper and GW paints, now they only sell P3.

    Regarding FF does have some ties to GW. Talisman, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Dark Heresy and now Rogue Trader, but all of that is under License.

  20. #60

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    Hmm, isn\'t that something. Here the LGS Owner sings the praises of GW for their service and speed, and curses the eyes of most of the other mini comanies. But I credit the local whims to the community more then the sales and policies of companies. GW has a program, or did in Canada, called the Grey Knight program that was a band of hardcore hobby enthusiasts that formally planned and held tournies, leagues, paint days etc. I was a big part of that locally until I resigned to make room for an even more enthusiastic guy to take my spot. So they\'re were always at least 2-3 guys who made themselves available for game based questions and advice, painting tips etc. which was something I know the other companies didn\'t really have in place, or not as effective from my perspective anyway.

    As a member of the Grey Knights GW would give us mail order credit for hosting these things, so it was \"work\" but usually the type of really fun stuff so many do anyway. The support for that system while I was involved with GW (about 7 years I think) was always excellent. Do programs like that exist outside Canada? I think that sort of grassroots level of enthusiasm worked ver well round here and might help in some of the other communities.

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