Auctions on CMoN
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Thread: Auctions on CMoN

  1. #1

    Default Auctions on CMoN

    So there I was sitting at my table painting away and thinking that I could do with putting some minis up for auction to raise a bit of cash, the usual place being Ebay. Thoughts of having to use the money grabbing b#stards not making me particularly happy.

    Anyway I was thinking that the majority, if not all of the people who bid on the minis have probably followed the link from here. Soooo why not just cut out Ebay and start hosting auctions on this site/a new sister site? Chances are that it would be a lot cheaper than Ebay but still make enough to pay CAs bills or even make him a bit of extra cash. Hint hint.

    I dont' think it wouldn't take long for the site to potentially become THE place to go for painted minis / custom sculpts etc.

    Question is how difficult is it to set up/program from scratch? I am guessing it is quite complex.

    Anyhoo .... thoughts everyone?
    What you leave behind is not what is written on your tombstone but what is written in the heart of others.

  2. #2

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    I don't think it is the programming that would problematic, it would the human relations. Refereeing disagreements between buyer and seller, complaints from both, scam auctions, etc. I get a headache just thinking about it. My opinion is that it'd be a major bad idea.

    There is http://www.games2trains.com/ that is an alternative. I know people here keep promoting it.
    Last edited by PegaZus; 10-29-2009 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Added Games2Trains link
    "Reality, she's a mathematical bitch from hell.", MaxedOutMama
    Wanna be bored? Watch me twitter. --<>-- Still have neurons? Watch my YouTube channel on painting!
    Want to know when to fry your neurons? My painting twitter will announce the videos.
    To judge how far to follow my advice, consider this: ---<>--- Slappin' paint on minis since 2006

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by PegaZus View Post
    There is http://www.games2trains.com/ that is an alternative. I know people here keep promoting it.
    I had a quick look and currently under the 40k section there were about 9 items, none of which were quality painted minis. So that is not going to convince me to use it at the moment.

    It might help if this site linked to other auction sites, such as G2T, rather than it just being Ebay. Anything which improves traffic flow to those sites and away from Ebay has got to be a good thing.
    What you leave behind is not what is written on your tombstone but what is written in the heart of others.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by nels0nmac View Post
    I had a quick look and currently under the 40k section there were about 9 items, none of which were quality painted minis. So that is not going to convince me to use it at the moment.

    It might help if this site linked to other auction sites, such as G2T, rather than it just being Ebay. Anything which improves traffic flow to those sites and away from Ebay has got to be a good thing.
    Yeah, that's why several people here keep trying to get traffic going to that site. It's a catch 22: People don't use it because traffic is low, traffic stays low because people don't use it.

    I know it's been suggested in the past to allow links other than eBay, so maybe since CA's in a modifiying mood, we might get this?
    "Reality, she's a mathematical bitch from hell.", MaxedOutMama
    Wanna be bored? Watch me twitter. --<>-- Still have neurons? Watch my YouTube channel on painting!
    Want to know when to fry your neurons? My painting twitter will announce the videos.
    To judge how far to follow my advice, consider this: ---<>--- Slappin' paint on minis since 2006

  5. #5

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    I've tried several different auction sites but none get the revenue for me ebay does.. yes they charge a lot but the return is higher I guess the fees do eflect a lot the amount of work that is done to deal with al the relations things on there and the protection there is for buyers and sellers ... It would be great if there were more serious competition to te monster that is ebay and make them think about dropping prices but at the moment they do kind ohave us by the curlies.

  6. #6

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    I've been using Games2Trains for almost 2 years now, though I haven't posted anything for the past 6 months because I've been so busy. I've had a very good experience there, and I've sold a LOT of stuff, made over $1500 in sales, and (I kid you not) paid only about $28 in fees. MUCH better than eBay, but sales just aren't brisk enough to attract enough sellers. PegaZus hit the problem right on the head.

    The new owner hasn't been doing enough to promote the site though. When it'd originally been sold by the creator, I tried to convince CA to pick it up, because tied to CMON I think it would have SOARED, but he didn't get excited at the idea. Plus he was too busy already!

    Still, I bet CMON could assemble a good team just from the users, and really make something work. It's got a big user base, and tons of credibility!

    My biggest beef with eBay isn't the fees (though that's a big problem!) so much as it is their attitude- they make things increasingly difficult for sellers and make it perfectly clear that they really don't care if we succeed or not, as long as they've got power sellers churning out revenue.

  7. #7

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    The primary value that an auction site provides in exchange for fees is the amount of marketing they do to get people to the site. I'm not 100% convinced that CMON doing it would necessarily create value for people unless we spent a lot of effort and money pushing it. It's certainly a possibility, but I need to make sure that it will really be a better, cheaper alternative, otherwise what would be the point?
    I like it firm and fruity!

  8. #8

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    How about the link to G2T for the time being CA?

    I did try to get Neil (owner of G2T) to email you, don't know whether he did or not, but he said he was open to the idea

    never know you might even be able to take it off his hands cheap
    My Gallery <IMG SRC=http://www.coolminiornot.com/rank.php?name=mickc22> Paragon Studios

  9. #9

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    I am in agreeance that I would like to see another site used. The thing is that if we look elsehwere outside of ebay--yeah not a whole lot is going to come up right this very moment in time. But if CMON provides the option for another site's auctions to be hosted then we'll start seeing more auctions.

    I have an ebid account as well as an ebay account. I paid $50 up front for a lifetime seller account. that means that unless I put a bunch of bells and whistles on my listings I don't pay any more fees for the auctions I hold or items I have listed for sale. It's more seller friendly and still has the same format as ebay in terms of how it functions.

    Why can't ebid be supported on here? Right now, thru ebay, on average I'm spending upwards of $25 a week on auctions and I'm making on average $100 before fees are paid. That includes the fee for credits on CMON, the listing fees which range from $0.35 to $1 then you have the end of auction fees where they take a percentage of your total sell price. Ebid doesn't do this and it means those of us selling would make a little bit more money. That may mean I can buy a weeks worth of groceries that doesn't consist of Ramen or PB sandwiches!

    Ebid seems to be a fairly popular site. I just did a search for Warhammer and 206 auctions came up:

    http://us.ebid.net/perl/main.cgi?mo=...ed=&sfeedback=

    A search for Reaper under Toys and Hobbies brought back over 1900 auctions.

    http://us.ebid.net/perl/main.cgi?mo=...ed=&sfeedback=

    It seems like ebid would be a nice alternative to ebay as an auction hosting site. I've never had a problem with their auctions and they have great customer service (had to email about something they mailed to me). They were polite and considerate.

    I highly recommend using ebid.

  10. #10

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    Well now... are "the money grabbing b#stards" at eBay suddenly listening? Or is it just that they've seen their fee collections plummet?

    Short summary, coming in March, no insertion fees for people with less than 100 auctions a month when the starting price is less than $1, with a final fee of 9% if it sells. Seems like that covers a lot of CMON members. Just checking my recent auctions (comic books, not minis) that would have saved me quite a bit of change.
    "Reality, she's a mathematical bitch from hell.", MaxedOutMama
    Wanna be bored? Watch me twitter. --<>-- Still have neurons? Watch my YouTube channel on painting!
    Want to know when to fry your neurons? My painting twitter will announce the videos.
    To judge how far to follow my advice, consider this: ---<>--- Slappin' paint on minis since 2006

  11. #11

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    eh, in my opinion that's still not as good as the deal you get at Ebid.

    I just paid my fees for January at Ebay and it was 1/10 of my final sales. That hurts! That was a tank of gas for my car or a weeks worth of groceries. Whereas on ebid I paid $50 up front for a lifetime membership and then no more fees unless I choose spiffy options for my auction.

    Ebay is still the money grabbing compan so many don't like.

  12. #12

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    Just had a quick look at Ebid from this side of the pond... same price but in £ sterling = 50% more than the USA. Another case of rip off Britain.

    That aside the listings for the UK EBid are the same as the US ones and yes there were around 200 odd items - but none were high value such as "pro" quality painted minis. I do still think that if these sites were promoted more, such as by links from here in the same way that ones for Ebay work that they could become more popular and more appealing than Ebay.

    From what I understand CA needs the code from those sites to link from here. Is that hard to obtain? Are they reluctant to hand over the code to what is essentially quite a niche market even if it promotes their site more?
    What you leave behind is not what is written on your tombstone but what is written in the heart of others.

  13. #13

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    eBay provides a service that eBid is trying to compete with. To put it into perspective, before eBay came along, traditional auction houses typically charged 15% to 25% commission on final selling prices. They still do in most cases due to their overhead.

    eBay reduced costs significantly so that even very low value items (anything less than $50k) could be economically auctioned. You might not realize it, but eBay does spend a considerable amount of money marketing, which accounts for why an eBay auction will probably fetch a higher final price than eBids. Of course, if you already have a firm following, why bother with eBid at all? Lots of pro painters just sell straight from their sites and maintain a mailing list, and merely use eBay to create awareness of their talent.

    eBid also does not have an API or any other method for integrating with them; they just don't seem very interested in marketing right now which is a problem. I personally feel a lot of new business people make the mistake in under-valuing the contribution of others in the supply chain, specifically:

    Why should "insert company name here" take such a big cut? I could have made the whole 100% instead of giving them XX%.

    While the newbies are griping about that and putting auctionable stuff up on Criagslist, someone else will be getting a much higher price for their work on eBay.

    It is much better to take a smaller piece of a bigger pie, than all of a cookie. If you have the resources to do marketing, have a solid mailing list then eBay doesn't represent good value to you. Also, if your stuff isn't really auction material as it is a commodity and has no scarcity value, eBay is not a good idea if you have other forms of marketing. Selling a box of unpainted Space Marines on eBay is probably not a good idea.

    At the end of the day, it's business 101. Know who your market is, and then make sure they know about your product (pay eBay to do it, do it yourself, whatever). It is a complete exercise in futility to "wish" a cheaper market alternative exists; eBid needs to prove they can do it, and make it super simple for us to support them.
    Last edited by Chern Ann; 02-04-2010 at 09:26 PM.
    I like it firm and fruity!

  14. #14

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    What bothers me about eBay is the fees.
    They are implementing a new fee structure.
    Before it was Insertion fee + 8.75% for the first $25 + 3.75% on the rest
    Now their new fees structures to help the people list and calculate cost, The new system is free insertion ( starting auctions @ $0.99 or less ) and only 9% of total.
    So lets see....a $40 item ....$0.15 listing fee ( $0.99 start ) + $2.18(25x8.75%) + $0.56 ( $15 x 3.75%) = $2.89
    or $40 x 9% = $3.60. Look at that their new fee system to help the seller actually cost $0.71 more. Then add the PayPal fee which you have to use now. Feebay.
    Last edited by DXM; 02-09-2010 at 03:26 PM.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by DXM View Post
    What bothers me about eBay is the fees.
    They are implementing a new fee structure.
    Before it was Insertion fee + 8.75% for the first $25 + 3.75% on the rest
    Now their new fees structures to help the people list and calculate cost, The new system is free insertion ( starting auctions @ $0.99 or less ) and only 9% of total.
    So lets see....a $40 item ....$0.15 listing fee ( $0.99 start ) + $2.18(25x8.75%) + $0.56 ( $15 x 3.75%) = $2.89
    or $40 x 9% = $3.60. Look at that their new fee system to help the seller actually cost $0.71 more. Then add the PayPal fee which you have to use now. Feebay.
    And any final sale less than $26.67 is actually saving money:
    $0.15 + $25*8.75%=$2.19 + ($26.67-25)*3.75%=$0.06 == $2.40
    $26.67 * 9% == $2.40

    So, it's really helping out the small item seller. I'd wager that there lies their customer base.
    "Reality, she's a mathematical bitch from hell.", MaxedOutMama
    Wanna be bored? Watch me twitter. --<>-- Still have neurons? Watch my YouTube channel on painting!
    Want to know when to fry your neurons? My painting twitter will announce the videos.
    To judge how far to follow my advice, consider this: ---<>--- Slappin' paint on minis since 2006

  16. #16

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    Well, to be fair they never said the fees were going to be cheaper, just flat rate. And yes, the fees are bad, but with the amount of potential customers that eBay gives access to I can deal with the fees. PayPal doesn't charge a fee for eBay transactions far as I know since it's owned by eBay. It's only the non-eBay transactions that they charge for.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by NGArtStudios View Post
    Well, to be fair they never said the fees were going to be cheaper, just flat rate. And yes, the fees are bad, but with the amount of potential customers that eBay gives access to I can deal with the fees. PayPal doesn't charge a fee for eBay transactions far as I know since it's owned by eBay. It's only the non-eBay transactions that they charge for.

    In the UK all paypal transactions carry a charge unless you are transfering money from your paypal acount into a bank acount over a certain value.
    Paypal is usefull yet a rip off, same goes for ebay.

  18. #18

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    Can't say I complain that much about it, I'd take 9% in fees as a private seller over 25% VAT as a company any day. (Granted, that's here in Sweden but still)
    Quote Originally Posted by TrystanGST View Post
    The secret? Practice, and a desire to get better. A little talent goes a long way, but as long as you're open to advice, you can do amazing things.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by generulpoleaxe View Post
    In the UK all paypal transactions carry a charge unless you are transfering money from your paypal acount into a bank acount over a certain value.
    Paypal is usefull yet a rip off, same goes for ebay.
    Before Paypal the only way for businesses to accept money was via credit card transactions, which require a merchant account, account maintenance fees and also carry a per transaction charge.

    Individuals would need to either use:
    1. Money order
    2. Cash
    3. Wire transfer

    to send money internationally, all of which incur either very high costs or very high risk.

    My point is, Paypal is a rip-off, compared to what? Frankly I feel that bank wire transfers are total ripoffs, as the charges on them are usually very high even though the entire process is automated.
    I like it firm and fruity!

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chern Ann View Post
    Before Paypal the only way for businesses to accept money was via credit card transactions, which require a merchant account, account maintenance fees and also carry a per transaction charge.

    Individuals would need to either use:
    1. Money order
    2. Cash
    3. Wire transfer

    to send money internationally, all of which incur either very high costs or very high risk.

    My point is, Paypal is a rip-off, compared to what? Frankly I feel that bank wire transfers are total ripoffs, as the charges on them are usually very high even though the entire process is automated.

    the transfers i do to a sculptor are FAR cheaper in regards to what the sculptor recieves which means they don't have to increase the price to compensate for paypals fee.
    Paypal just made it more convenient for the majority of people and convenience often comes at a price.

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