CMON19- Need to read
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  1. #1

    Default CMON19- Need to read

    Hi All,

    This I think is an important must read and to be honest I am not happy with what has happened. The latest CMON competition has really turned into a bit of a joke. The sniping and vote padding has gone for the last 7 days at what I call an unappreciated level on this site. What I have an issue is about a week ago dramatic changes started when one miniature that had not been in the top 3 even though reasonably painted started to rise in score dramatically after about 80 votes had already been cast. However at the same time two other miniatures fell in score at the same time. Now I am not going to argue artist merits of individual pieces or even say that it was done by anybody in the competition. I honestly don’t know who or whom might have done this. All I know is at each night after the anti sniping program kicked in and the votes and score reset somebody went out of their way to lower the score of at least two competitors. To show what I mean this was my score as of 12:15 am PST just after the anti sniping takes place on 9.0 with 170 votes. Between then and the final competition results somebody/ some people snipe me down to 8.2 on 194 votes at competition end. The only way that could happen is that I have been given about 22 1’s. This has happened every night at about the same time for the last week. I think this is by far the worst sniping I have seen and the aim was basically to rig the competition.



    I have left this message until after the competition because I did not want to seem to be affecting the results. Also it will be interesting to see what happens tonight when the anti sniping program runs again and if it will affect the results. Overall all this has been a very unpleasant experience and it certainly feels like a personal attack. I just thought people should know what has actually occurred.

    Regards,

    Jamie.
    Last edited by Jamie; 01-19-2010 at 08:13 AM.

  2. #2

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    First off, sorry to hear about you being sniped. The problem of vote padding and wholesale sniping has been brought up in the forums a few times over the years. Normally it's just an irritation more than anything, but the seriousness of the basic issue is highlighted when it's done to influence the results of a competition.

    Personally I think if there's proven to be no validity to the numbers sometimes it undermines the scores on everything, since anything might be affected even if only in a small way (a couple of tenths difference or something like that). And unfortunately there is absolute proof that the scores are manipulated by some individuals or by groups, whether everyone chooses to see this or not. And it's done regularly, not just for ego stroking but for nefarious reasons like to inflate the apparent popularity of commercial sculpts.

    As you say there does appear to be anti-sniping software on the site. As far as I remember from previous discussions we've never gotten definitive word on how it works (for obvious reasons) but unfortunately it is possible to get around; I've done some tests to confirm this myself and you can significantly, and permanently, change the score on something without too much effort.

    Einion

  3. #3

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    Maybe the contest should be judged by a panel? That is probably do-able?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Einion View Post
    Normally it's just an irritation more than anything, but the seriousness of the basic issue is highlighted when it's done to influence the results of a competition.

    Einion
    The fact that a group or even an individual can effect a Competition is of great concern. Hence the reason I have brought it up. I doubt in future I would enter such a competition again in the format that exists at the moment and people need to know what might happen.

    @ ScottRadom

    I think something should be done and would agree with any idea that allows for closer monitoring of the competition. If they are going to run such events they need to be fair, otherwise what is the point.

  5. #5

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    Course, an easy solution to this would be to only count the votes from registered members. I'm assuming that it would be a lot harder for someone to snipe it since each member gets one vote (or are they averaged together? I forget), and I'm sure someone would notice a bunch of logins from a single IP. That might be something to consider.
    "Reality, she's a mathematical bitch from hell.", MaxedOutMama
    Wanna be bored? Watch me twitter. --<>-- Still have neurons? Watch my YouTube channel on painting!
    Want to know when to fry your neurons? My painting twitter will announce the videos.
    To judge how far to follow my advice, consider this: ---<>--- Slappin' paint on minis since 2006

  6. #6

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    Looks like I was right- back up to 9.1. So the sniping votes have been taken off again, not that it will change the final result now. Also one of my fellow competitors should have gotten third.

  7. #7

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    I noticed one of the entries the other day (cant remember which one) had a difference of around 1.7 between registered and un-registered votes which seemed a high gap to me.
    using registered votes only would help reduce vote manipulation surely - or is that too easy?
    maybe we should have a section called coolmanipulationornot!!

  8. #8

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    I have got a question:

    Is it hard to program, that when a mini is for competion, only signed members can vote ONCE for each mini? I would be better, or not?

    Greetings, Taggi

    edit: Sorry PegaZus, i have overread your comment. I think you are right.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagamoga View Post
    I have got a question:

    Is it hard to program, that when a mini is for competion, only signed members can vote ONCE for each mini? I would be better, or not?

    Greetings, Taggi

    edit: Sorry PegaZus, i have overread your comment. I think you are right.
    Hahahahah!!!!!! And darklord's! NINJA'd ya both! MUHAHAHAHAH.....

    Sorry. 'Scuse me.
    "Reality, she's a mathematical bitch from hell.", MaxedOutMama
    Wanna be bored? Watch me twitter. --<>-- Still have neurons? Watch my YouTube channel on painting!
    Want to know when to fry your neurons? My painting twitter will announce the videos.
    To judge how far to follow my advice, consider this: ---<>--- Slappin' paint on minis since 2006

  10. #10
    Newbie, please be gentle Ija's Avatar
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    Default

    I've written to Borg that I'm not consent with results of voting and I've asked to recount results. I hope that they will do it.
    I think, the problem will be solved when only registered users can vote only once.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ija View Post
    I think, the problem will be solved when only registered users can vote only once.
    this might be a good solution, at least when it comes to competitons.

  12. #12

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    Quite a discrepancy between registered and not registered going on as well. Having the competitions based only on registered votes would go a long way to solving this.

  13. #13

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    We have investigated and addressed the problem for this competition.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by PegaZus View Post
    Course, an easy solution to this would be to only count the votes from registered members.
    Quote Originally Posted by darklord View Post
    using registered votes only would help reduce vote manipulation surely - or is that too easy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ija View Post
    I think, the problem will be solved when only registered users can vote only once.
    It's a start, but not a complete solution.

    IP# monitoring would be a good idea - if that part of the site is coded to allow this - but it's also possible to get around that if someone is determined (and a sad git needless to say).

    Quote Originally Posted by PegaZus View Post
    I'm assuming that it would be a lot harder for someone to snipe it since each member gets one vote (or are they averaged together? I forget)
    Two votes, averaged.



    Quote Originally Posted by borg View Post
    We have investigated and addressed the problem for this competition.
    Great, can we be told how or would that reveal too much?

    Einion

  15. #15

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    can we not just arm donna with some clamps and threaten her use on anyone that looks like they are cheating.
    Actually some may like that too much - maybe judge Radom with his battleaxe of justice

  16. #16

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    Actually if there's anti-cheating software that resets, reverts, or brings the scores to their actual level after a period of time, why not just take the scores from after the reset?

  17. #17

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    i find that often the registered votes are lower. you are a grumpy bunch of voters!!!
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/freak-in-a-cage/freakinacage-1.jpg

  18. #18
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakinacage View Post
    i find that often the registered votes are lower. you are a grumpy bunch of voters!!!
    Tim; I doubt that is the fact that SOME of us are Grumpy, but that registered voters in general seem to be more honest in their opinions on votes and less inclined to PAD votes.
    I believe in Karma, what you give, is what you get returned. Affirmation; Savage Garden
    Oh look my IQ results came in:-
    , and proud of it.

  19. #19

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    oh mike, i was only joking. i think it's great being judged harder by your peers. keeps you on your toes
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/freak-in-a-cage/freakinacage-1.jpg

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsreach View Post
    Tim; I doubt that is the fact that SOME of us are Grumpy, but that registered voters in general seem to be more honest in their opinions on votes and less inclined to PAD votes.
    I always thought it was also down to registered users been less wowed by it being a space marine or newest gw release - I always find my unregistered v registered is slightly higher (say .2) on GW but on other manufacturers the unregistered is often a fair bit lower

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