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Thread: SkelettetS wip

  1. #2161

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    Been reading up on the thread and I'm on my second beer now. Hi again skel et al. Your work evokes emotion. You're just that good.

    Fall has been hectic for me what with studying at the uni and all. Haven't had time to paint at all, much less start that wip-thread I've been wanting to. Four half finished minis are standing here looking at me accusingly, and two of them are even pointing guns at me.

    I would like to share a few thoughts on art, competition and objectiveness/subjectiveness that started to turn in my head when I read about that whole Golden Demon debacle. These thoughts go out to all of you artists reading, and not just skel. I would like to add that although I don't like Games Workshop's business politics (I seldom hate. That's too strong a word) these thoughts are speculative at best and not meant to convey any values, but might spawn such in anyone reading.

    I have a huge amount of respect for artists of all kinds, what with many of my relatives, and friends of family, being artists. Art is subjective, sure, and while someone might not like a painting it might still be valued at 175 000 SEK and hang in a museum, as is the case with the work of one painter who is a friend of family. With this subjectiveness however comes a conflict. How can you compete in art?

    The simple answer is: "You can't". Or at least: "You shouldn't be able to".

    Still, it's done. In the case of many types of art and craftsmanship.

    It's not only the qualities of art that are subjective, but also what actually constitutes art is widely discussed and debated. Can a video game be art? Can a well crafted tool be art? Is music art? End rethorical questions.

    I personally collect art to decorate my home. As of now it's mostly paintings, but I have one smaller sculpture and would like to aquire more in the future. I have a pretty good insight into what is required of a person to produce a work of art when it comes to the time spent to achieve the current skill at the chosen type of expression, the time spent to produce a piece, the inspiration needed, the discipline to finish, and also the soul of an artist. Artists share a few traits that in my opinion are what drives them to become artists and accept that they might not be able to live on their art, just to be able to pursue their passion.

    So how do you get around the problem of judging something which has subjective quality? Some times, as someone pointed out, open judgement criterias are used, and sometimes other artists are the judges, someone who understands the medium and what it takes to produce the type of art in question. You're judged by your fellow artists. Are there other ways? But should it really be required to work around a problem? It's a dilemma for sure.

    I'm split as to having a page where you can rate art, like cmon. While this platform serves to help artists of all levels of skill to improve their work, get ideas and inspiration when they're stuck, and so on, it's very easy to misuse and above all, misunderstand the purpose of.

    When I read that skel was considering, albeit briefly, to conform, I was furious. Not at skel, but at a system that bullies a person into thinking what they do is not good enough. An artist needs to find their style and stick to it. That's what makes art have soul. If an artist does what others ask of them, their work soon become lackluster and dull. Eventually the artists loses interest in their own work, because they're not connecting with it anymore. They're producing someone else's dreams.

    So where are miniature painting in all of this? One problem is that miniatures originally were designed for being used in gaming. But since long, it has evolved. Nowadays miniatures are also produced to be decorative items, which allows artists more freedom. I think that depending on what sort of miniature an artist paints, and to what end it was produced combined with in what context it's scrutinized give very different results when it's judged. Games Workshop isn't producing art. They're producing tools. They pretend to have artistic standards and pretentions, but in the end they're creating minis to be moved around on a battle mat. Insert name of any miniature gaming company in the place of Games Workshop.

    As an example I'd like to bring up the period of time Games Workshop started to display very poorly painted miniatures on their website. From what I've heard, the reason for this was that they thought that their customers were put off by high quality painted minis being displayed and therefore consumed less, as a result of feeling like they could never paint as well themselves. Their painting guides that show how you, step by step, get a "Games Workshop quality" result is possibly further evidence of this. The artists working for Heavy Metal are also, as far as I've heard, told to paint at a certain standard. Is Games Workshop really interested in art? If not, what is the point of having painting competitions like Golden Demon?

    But enough about Games Workshop.

    I love surfing for miniatures. It's my "internet porn". I love finding high quality, or original miniatures from small or little known manufacturers. I do my best to do the miniatures I buy justice in my painting. I'm not an artist. Not yet, because that takes a lot of invested time and practice that I don't yet have. But I try to improve. I love looking at well painted miniatures, both for inspiration, but also for learning. To that end, cmon is a great place.

    Jumping between thoughts, is miniature painting really a hobby? Or is it a craft? An art? Is it going through a very slow revolution? Will we one day see painted miniatures being sold as works of art, for decorative purposes? And at sums that really reflect the worth of the time and soul invested by the artist? I'm not talking about commision work. That's usually painting someone else's dream. Not necessarily the customer, but the creator of the miniature. Like going with a Lego kit to a sculptor asking them to assemble it. Would anyone in their right mind do that? Of course there are people who would gladly assemble your Lego kit for you. Those people aren't artists however.

    Enough of my ramblings. I'm not getting anywhere, not that I intended to.

    Happy new year everyone! And a toast, to a revolution in miniature painting, where artists and their works have a greater place, and are accepted and valued justly.

    Judge this:

    Last edited by finnpalm; 11-06-2014 at 02:26 PM.
    On the other hand you have different fingers.

  2. #2162

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    interesting wall of text finn! and thanks! i think later successes with miniatures has really settled me with my style, im not going to change a thing as this is the way i like to paint minis
    happy new one, all of you! i hope 2014 turns out as good as 2013 ended!

    Ooooonwards then. started slowly with the skin of the deamon. this is going to take some time *cough*



  3. #2163

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    Wow, awesome skin effect you've got going there. Yeah, I could see that taking a bit of time. Fantastic work!

  4. #2164

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    i really like the way this is going=)

    nice to hear you settled in with a way of painting that you like. maybe i´ll get there some day too!

  5. #2165

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    Yeah I'm sorry about the wall of text. And congratulations. I watched the video from Poland and even though I don't know you very well, the expression on your face said a lot. So yes, vindication is probably the best word to describe it.

    Just like when you can look at a painting and say, "Yeah, that's a Rembrandt" I think that at a certain level you can do that with minis too. Like yours, skel. The type of miniatures you choose to paint, the contrasts, the colours and so on. Not many paint like you. And if someone did paint similarly I think you can still find what puts your styles apart from eachother from looking closely.

    This one looks like it's turning out to be another skelettetS classic. Also I like how the left arm looks a little like the parts have collected and assembled themselves, as if some magic forced them together. They don't look like they fit smoothly, but together with the rest of the mini your brain is forced to believe that they work as intended. Don't know if you made it like that intentionally, but it looks great. My head hurts.

    Are you doing facetous bug-eyes?
    On the other hand you have different fingers.

  6. #2166

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    Wow! That eye and the skull transition for the wounds...awesome.

  7. #2167

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    thanks
    finn, that video from hussar is really funny to see, as i was totally utterly dead beat tired from a horror-ish travel to warsaw, and complete lack of food (not easy being vegetarian in poland, at least when you dont understand polish...). i still find it hard to believe i won the whole deal, with the level of the comp i had been freaking happy with a bronze statue. anyway thanks for your kind words. guess we can meet up at the fang this year again

    some more images. skin (-leg) is practically done, although i can keep tinting it rest of my lifetime. the power armor is going to be purple for a nice break to the blue-green skin. green armor just didnt work, so although perhaps not totally nurgle color, purple it is.




  8. #2168

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    Great work on the skin there - great...

    Is the right thigh (green lines on white) skin in progress?

  9. #2169

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    I like it! A little blow by blow on your tinting technique would be cool mate. Life getting any easier more time to paint?
    Victis hostibus tuis tibi rapitur videre et audire fletum mulierum. (or as near as google can do it!)
    Here be my ranking=
    Here be my gallery http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/AndyG

  10. #2170

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    thanks! the right leg is indeed work in progress, just done the basic marble pattern so far (looks like shit in this stage )

    Andy my life is never easy mate, back to normal though trying to find an hour or two late evenings.

  11. #2171

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    Yeah being a dad is rather demanding love my kids very very much but I think this says it all
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Victis hostibus tuis tibi rapitur videre et audire fletum mulierum. (or as near as google can do it!)
    Here be my ranking=
    Here be my gallery http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/AndyG

  12. #2172

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    yeah jr is everything and more to me, but the "me" time is... well... no existent... sort of. hope it gets better when he learn to play the xbox heheee

  13. #2173

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkelettetS View Post
    yeah jr is everything and more to me, but the "me" time is... well... no existent... sort of. hope it gets better when he learn to play the xbox heheee
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    Yeah being a dad is rather demanding love my kids very very much but I think this says it all
    They are definately worth it seeing the personalities develop and seeing the joy of unbridled childish curiosity. And hopefully our warped hobby rubs some artistic curiosity off on them...and i can not wait for him to start getting interested in playing any types of games.

  14. #2174

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    I see now that you already made an eye. I must've been blind when I posted.

    Yeah skel, if I ever get to your level of skill, you're on. I'll beat you in the fang. Ironically with a Heartbreaker mini someone else painted.

    Seriously though, the way my life is looking I can't see myself finding that amount of energy I need to pour into it to get there. But the moment I find time to paint again I'll be trying to apply some of what you and Kretcher talked about when we met.

    On the subject of kids, start playing games with them as early as possible. Everyone needs to learn to handle winning and losing, but at the youngest age (I started playing a boardgame with my mom when I was four, and she taught me to play chess when I was six, although that might be a bit extreme) it's good if the child plays for the actual playing. Once they get a little older you can play more competitive games, but if the child seems devastated by a loss maybe something where you play in teams, or together against the game is a good transition. It's easier to lose as a group than as an individual.

    A couple of years ago I held a recurring basic miniature painting class over the course of several months, for kids from the age of 8 to the age of 12. I myself started painting when I was 14. The problem with letting kids paint minis is the lack of patience. They do however tend to love it. It's like a 3D colouring book. What I taught them was how to handle the brush tips, how to get your hands steady, how to thin the paint and how to paint "inside the lines". After they had produced a mini that was nicely coated "within the lines" I showed them some simple washing. Then highlighting and basing. All the while painting alongside them and showing them the stages in my own progress so they could compare. We painted for about an hour at a time. More then that was hard for some of the kids to take. It is, as you well know, also very individual at how good you are at that age. One kid was extremely focused and sat in complete silence painting his miniature, while another child thought "gold is pretty" and painted an orc in gold. My bonus daughter is now 11 (she was 9 when she learned to paint in my class) and likes to paint, but she's already realised that, although I gave her some paints of her own and brushes and a wet palette as a birthday gift, she doesn't paint unless she really feels in the mood for it.

    My point is that gaming and painting definately will rub of on your kids. Just be patient.
    On the other hand you have different fingers.

  15. #2175

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    That marble effect is really very striking indeed - I'm interested to see how you go from the outline to the finished result...

    well done...

  16. #2176

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    Okay so i hit the motivation-wall when i came to the legs. i hate painting legs! i even had to stretch my own rule to never have more than one project open at once. anyway finished off the first leg, the boot left to paint but will do that after basing probably.



    also made up my mind what to do and what to do. i will unfortunately not go to crystal brush, for a bunch of reasons. first of all i had enough of painting under pressure at the moment after this last autumn. and with basically all my stuff already being in a competition without this demon i will have zero competition pieces.
    i will however go to Salute in UK instead, and for that competiton i already have more entries than i can carry

  17. #2177

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    At Salute you might possibly meet the Hasslefree gang and Tre Manor (whom they work with to some extent). I think they're at Salute every year. Pick up some radically different minis maybe, and try out?

    That leg looks great. Are you doing the other one in the same web pattern or are you going for asymmetric?
    On the other hand you have different fingers.

  18. #2178

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    something asymmeric had been cool, but almost finished most of the web-pattern already so its going to be the same

    yeah Salute will be awesome

  19. #2179

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    Boo. Wish you were going to Crystal Brush - but then that's easy for me to say. I'm a 45 minute drive. You're a very long plane ride, and multiple airports. So I can certainly understand. Maybe another time. This demon is really shaping up.
    Proud owner of a Cassar!

    #1378/9460
    You are ranked 1351 out of 9441 artists.



  20. #2180

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    yeah it had been very cool to meet up with you guys. i will travel to US events at some point, but then it will be in combination with a week or two vacation at least. to just traveltraveltravel for a few days over there just doesnt feel fun...

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