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  1. #21

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    Bring back the ability to buy individual bits.

    I get that it was a money loser for GW, but come on, when they ended that program a few years ago, it killed me. I grew up flipping through GW catalogs looking for cool bits to customize my models, but now all you have are a few pieces available. And hunting around Ebay just doesn't get the job done.

  2. #22

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    Well, if the figures were pre-painted then GW would gain a load of impatient people with the attention span of a goldfish as customers and then WHAM.... they would all realise that it takes at least 4 hours to play a game of 40k with a decent sized army where tactics (and not dice roles) actually come into it.... and then they would all leave (as they can't keep their eyes open through a 5+ min. youtube clip let alone a 4 hour rules-reading fest) and never come back. They would also lose all their custom from the painters and modellers who just love... well, painting.

    The people that would be enticed by pre-painted armies are already very well catered for by the computer games market with instant gratification. I think GW know this.

    What I would do is bring out much much much much simpler rules. I know they have done this step in the past but not by enough. And I don't mean replacing the existing rules either. Have coexisting sets of rules to cater for:
    1) People who want incredible depth where each individual model can be equipped with hundreds of different wargear and a trillion billion dice roles each turn to replicate every possible random effect in the universe ever. Have a system so complicated that even the company itself can not print every required rulebook/codex for each army before the next expansion. Make it so that 5 times out of 10 people win because the opponent didn't know that they had equipped the small-willy-halfling maggot with a melta-superbomb-deathray-gamewin grenade and they drove their huge tank within 6" of it by mistake--This was because they didn't buy the latest bunch of mega-brain-melt codex/rulebooks and just didn't know about the grenade's existence. The other 4 times out of ten the person must win by buying the latest £20-£50 ultra-armour-nevergetskilled-princeofeverything-canflyeverywhere-$h!tsoneverything-99lives-amazing-megadude/megatank/megasquad and uses it as a tank to charge through any tactically placed army and wipe it out unit by unit. and the other 1 time out of ten they win by using (SHOCK HORROR THIS WILL MAKE US NO SHORT TERM MONEY) good old tactics.

    2) People who want to ENJOY A SIMPLE GAME. Have a limited number of different units which each have a very unique tactical role. Have ONE DICE ROLE max per model for shooting/combat which contains all the randomness you need. Have a load of different armies with mostly similar rules (and VERY simple well flavoured differences) so that no one needs to study for hours in order to know what is going on. I.E. I am a tyranid army, I move slightly faster than other armies and am good at combat. I am an ork army, I have more warriors than other armies etc... etc... THAT IS IT. Have a standard general... he is the same as every other troop but he lets units close to him pass leadership tests automatically and if he dies all units role a leadership test. You get the picture... just simple simple simple. Hire several professional experts in probability/statistics/game-theory to test and correctly determine the best points based costing systems and game mechanics (like WoTC do). People will buy different models because they want variation in how their armies look and because they are cool... not because they have to buy them in order to remain competitive so keep the game BALANCED and SIMPLE at all costs! In the long run the game will garner massive support and after tweeking it (from customer/playtest response) might actually start to be taken seriously by the wider world as an easy to learn but difficult to master, professional game.

    You would think that the first option would be the most difficult... but that's the one that GW currently use *sigh*. The second option is totally unexplored.

    Sorry for the rant but as a kid I tried to get into WH40K and WHFB several times. I've watched the games being played too. They were all completely uninspiring and a BIG let down when you consider the imagination and work that has gone into all the product support (like the writers for the fluff, the graphic artists and miniature sculptors/painters etc). So much passion has gone into that side but NONE seems to be left over for the actual rules and game! It all seemed to boil down to dice roles and arguments. The only reason I still know about the companies existance is because it introduced me to miniature painting/modelling.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsreach View Post
    You are right, I hate you for saying that.
    Let me be quite specific I Hate Pre-Painted cr*p.
    And I've yet to see any pre-painted stuff which isn't cr*p.
    .
    Have you seen AT-43. I'm buying some of their line because they look cool , decent paint job but I'm also repainting and modifying them too.
    Only reason it never took off here in North America was because when the game was hot and new they could not supply the starters for nearly a year and interest fell off.
    Some of the larger walker have interiors in them even though the hatches are glued shut.

    The new D&D prepaint miniatures are actually not that bad, not metal mini quality but for what they are used for.

    My biggest grip with GW is price. Compare their prices from what you get from GW to what is in the same price range from historical model company. Night and day. For a $50 tank kit from Dragon, you get your tank plus accesories like individual tracks, metal barrel and brass not cast white metal parts, photo etch, stencils and decals for marking, 3-5 crew members, When you open the box you can not see the bottom of the box because it is packed.
    Spanish Balloons? Mongo like spanish balloons!

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by nels0nmac View Post
    I second Joek on the FW in the stores idea.Some of the staff don't even know what is in the current range. I took the FW marine that I am currently working on into my local store to show them what I was doing and they were like " wow" did you sculpt that yourself?". I mean come on. This was from all of the staff not just the newbie. Even if they didn't have actual FW stuff in stores they should at least be able to access the website from their instore order point. Then they would have at least some knowldge of what they actually produce.
    People forget that GW employees are just normal gamers. They don't all have a pipe connected to the back of their heads connecting them to everything GW has ever done.

    Quote Originally Posted by DXM View Post
    Have you seen AT-43. I'm buying some of their line because they look cool , decent paint job but I'm also repainting and modifying them too.
    Only reason it never took off here in North America was because when the game was hot and new they could not supply the starters for nearly a year and interest fell off.
    Some of the larger walker have interiors in them even though the hatches are glued shut.

    The new D&D prepaint miniatures are actually not that bad, not metal mini quality but for what they are used for.

    My biggest grip with GW is price. Compare their prices from what you get from GW to what is in the same price range from historical model company. Night and day. For a $50 tank kit from Dragon, you get your tank plus accesories like individual tracks, metal barrel and brass not cast white metal parts, photo etch, stencils and decals for marking, 3-5 crew members, When you open the box you can not see the bottom of the box because it is packed.
    I'm growing tired of the Historical to GW price comparison. If GW only had to flip open a history book to find information on Warhammer armies or images of what they want, or ideas for different units, then their cost of doing business would certainly fall. GW on the other hand has gaming stores, entirely company run tournaments and events, artists, writers, web designers, terrain and table makers, rules developers, and game developers. It's not something you can do with three guys, a history book, skill, and some sculpting putty.
    Last edited by Dedwrekka; 04-20-2010 at 03:45 PM.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dedwrekka View Post
    People forget that GW employees are just normal gamers. They don't all have a pipe connected to the back of their heads connecting them to everything GW has ever done.
    Quick, bring on the surgeons, time for pipe insertions!

    There's a chap at my local GW who can witter on about their minis back to the original Regiments of Reknown. He entertains me If only for short periods 'cos he's quite intense!

    Cheers, B.
    My CMON Gallery Rank...

  6. #26

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    I have one of those Regiments of Reknown, the lizardman one.

  7. #27

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    Hi Roger, do you have the full set of command? I have a single box of Bugman's Dwarf Rangers which came with the musician I only found out he wasn't Bugman last year! I do have a single, solitary, lonely Lizardman from that period though

    Cheers, B.
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  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by doyme View Post
    What I would do is bring out much much much much simpler rules. (...) just simple simple simple.
    I don't believe that this will help. I more believe it would strangle GW to death. Complexity is not a problem for gamers. It never had been. In 2nd Edition a 40k game was way more complex with way more different rules. But all these differences are things that catch attention of a gamer. If things would be as simple as chess and all armies the same with just different speed or number of models, that would turn to be boring way faster than chess. Chess might be a good game for brainiacs (like me), but honestly, it's not something you play to have a fun time. You play it to think - and actually GW-games aren't for thinkers, they are for geeks who know a zillion rules, equiment and units. Difference and complexity makes a game interesting. You can see that also on computer-games: Except the Farmer-Town-like-games on facebook, the real pc-guru-games are quite complex with lots of different little bits and hard to master. The more complex a game is, the more "real" it feels and the easier a gamer can get lose himself and dive into it deeply.

    But... of course... There are people like me too: Fluff+Look of models make me do it. I've been never interested in another table-top-game or another army - I just love what I have.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dedwrekka View Post
    People forget that GW employees are just normal gamers. They don't all have a pipe connected to the back of their heads connecting them to everything GW has ever done.



    I'm growing tired of the Historical to GW price comparison. If GW only had to flip open a history book to find information on Warhammer armies or images of what they want, or ideas for different units, then their cost of doing business would certainly fall. GW on the other hand has gaming stores, entirely company run tournaments and events, artists, writers, web designers, terrain and table makers, rules developers, and game developers. It's not something you can do with three guys, a history book, skill, and some sculpting putty.
    GW wishes they had the profits that Dragon makes.
    It takes more than 3 guys and a history book to put out a decent product.
    Dragon realized long time ago to give the customers value for what they are buying. Not base prices on how powerful a tank is.
    Actually there is more research that goes on for a historical tank than GW ever does. All GW has to do is make up history, historical companies have to make historically correct model. Dragon has in the past recalled and remastered their molds to correct errors because the historical modeler want accurate models not ham handed plastic chunky representations.
    Spanish Balloons? Mongo like spanish balloons!

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPI View Post
    Hi Roger, do you have the full set of command? I have a single box of Bugman's Dwarf Rangers which came with the musician I only found out he wasn't Bugman last year! I do have a single, solitary, lonely Lizardman from that period though

    Cheers, B.
    Assuming I'm remembering correctly and we're talking about the same thing there were just 10 minis, 9 archers and the leader with a sword. They're all painted very badly with enamels...Ah, those were the days, pre slotta-bases.

    EDIT: For those with no clue as to what I'm talking about it's these guys. http://www.solegends.com/citrr/rr11karnacm1.htm
    The box I had (for the box itself is no more) had 9 archers and the officer. They were my second miniatures purchase after the Fellowship of the Ring set.
    Last edited by Roger Bunting; 04-20-2010 at 06:30 PM.

  11. #31

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    Hi Roger, that sounds right, a single box & the chap with the single sword is the Champion. If you'd bought another box you could have had a bunch more identical bowmen & an Officer/Karnac. Same again for the Musician & then the Standard Bearer An expensive way of collecting a full set of unit characters! I'm under the impression they weren't available individually but am not sure. Sounds likely though I don't recall any mention on the packaging of there being 3 more to collect, as it were, though? Hence my assuming a Dwarf Musician was Bugman for so long

    http://www.solegends.com/citrr/rr11karnac.htm
    http://www.solegends.com/citrr/rr11karnacm1.htm

    Cheers, B.

    You PSed!
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  12. #32

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    It's the officer I actually have.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dedwrekka View Post
    People forget that GW employees are just normal gamers. They don't all have a pipe connected to the back of their heads connecting them to everything GW has ever done.
    It's not that they need to know all that has been before, but a passing knowledge of what is currently available would be nice.
    What you leave behind is not what is written on your tombstone but what is written in the heart of others.

  14. #34

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    One of the ten commandments staff are to observe is to display in depth product knowledge. Though that pretty much just covers what's available in retail, so they can chat about it, and perhaps inspire a punter to buy it. Back in my day, dunno if it still goes, but there was a staff magazine "Chapter Aproved" that informed folk what the other departments were up to.
    If that's no longer a feature I'll add "restart that" to my list. Reading that was a nice way to pass a lunch break, if working in a store with enough staff to let you take one. Maintained a level of interest, made a staffer feel special, like a insider. And the litany of anecdotes about the staff's real life"oops" column was always funny, unless you were in it, um... :s

  15. #35
    Superfreak!!! Torn blue sky's Avatar
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    First thing i'd do is take the financial calculators outside, line them up against a wall and shoot them with a ball of their own shit.
    Then I would hire different people, with a view of passing the savings onto the customer.

    Then I would innovate and all that other stuff. I'd make Dan Abnett write more books too.

    And maybe buy a monkey.

  16. #36
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    Well, I won't get lost in what GW is doing wrong in the business world, but there is one thing that upsets me:
    It seems that every time they bring out a new rulebook or codex they completely eradicate the old fluff.
    e.g. Spehss Mehreens started out as somewhat bad-a** space cops/fast respond force without mercy in Rogue Trader and now they are warrior monks, more or less the moral opposite of what they used to be.
    And also, while there is a lot of fluff, no one really knows what's outdated or not anymore. The WH40k plot doesn't go anywhere either.
    Thinking about getting new customers is fine, but you might want to keep those you already have as well.
    That's at least one thing I'd do differently!
    Greets from Kraut-Land,
    Yves

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Bunting View Post
    I have one of those Regiments of Reknown, the lizardman one.
    Quote Originally Posted by BPI View Post
    Hi Roger, do you have the full set of command? I have a single box of Bugman's Dwarf Rangers which came with the musician I only found out he wasn't Bugman last year! I do have a single, solitary, lonely Lizardman from that period though

    Cheers, B.
    he, he, I've still got a 3000 pt DoW Army in a box from when I worked there, keep promising myself I'll paint the up one day LOL
    My Gallery <IMG SRC=http://www.coolminiornot.com/rank.php?name=mickc22> Paragon Studios

  18. #38

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    For what its worth (I don't think that GW will radically change it approach):

    1. May be it is the danger of having been in the hobby for so long (25 years), but I am getting bored of seeing the same minis being reinvented and the same fluff being repeated. I would therefore (re)introduce a few new races / mini types - I am not talking about whole armies necessarily. But it would be nice, for example, to see the Fimir appear as allies for some of the evil armies or some remanent of the squats reappear. It only needs a handful of miniatures, but IMO beats yet another round of space marines. I know that we have seen this from time to time, but some more regularity would be welcome and would temper the feeling of repetition.

    2. I would have optional advanced rules to add a level of detail. For WFB, I would take a look at 3rd edition formations by way of example.

    3. Make sure that every edition of White Dwarf shows a well painted army as well as gold demon / CMON 9+ score standard minis. (You have to cater for both aspects of the hobby and I think that the magazine sometimes lacks this balance). At the end of the day, I suspect that most of us were drawn into the hobby by the miniatures. GW should therefore maximise this selling point. More follow up on the Golden Demon would be one way of addressing, looking at other miniatures by th artists that won awards.

    4. Shoot on sight any GW staff member who begins a conversation with "So do you play the games?" followed by "what armies do you collect?" I know that they have to initiate a conversation with customers, but please try a little harder.

  19. #39

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    The next line is "How about collecting <insert latest army rerelease>?"

  20. #40
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    Well, I m no expert where the gaming side of it is concerned as i m just into the art of it and the modelling and just enoying that, but there are lots of things GW can do to pull their socks up. If I was in charge......

    A big problem is that a large proportion of customer base is disillusioned and fed up at the company. There is a big need to show their customers that as much as GW is a business, it is a business that LOVES what it does and one that will do ANYTHING to make their customers HAPPY. If people are getting what they want they will support the company that provides that satisfaction. A change of attitude costs nothing and GW needs to reconnect with those disillusioned people. Some ways to do this...

    1) Shoot whoever is in charge of the White Dwarf content. The fact this is no more than a glorified product catalogue allows you to see their business mentality transparantly - and its not a pretty sight. White Dwarf is a big tool to enable that RE-CONNECTION with their disillusioned customers. Use White Dwarf to showcase the players work and of course the people at GW who do amazing projects for their bread and butter. Articles on how to make stuff, how to paint better. Some nice art, some short stories, some sneak previews, profiles on gaming clubs across the country. Anything that can establish some roots back to the customer. I dont want to see endless ads for their new products and a load of battle reports (boring - s - n - o - r e). Give us some real content. When i gave up buying the mag they were doing some profiles on some artists, this was great stuff but too little too late for me.

    2) Website - SORT IT OUT!!! Gaming is a communal activity therefore get the forum back and start some communal activity rather than just an online store with a few bells and whistles, and bring back the BITZ as well while your at it.

    3) Strategy - At the moment all i see is a cold hearted jaded business approach. It does not cost any money to change that business approach and can only be a positive move. My perception is that they appear to be customer service orientated but in reality it is so see through that all they want me to do is spend some money on something it offends me. Now don't get me wrong, the staff i have met on my few trips have chatted and they seem like all round nice guys and I understand it is part of their job, but if GW were doing everything right their stuff would sell itself. Rehashing stuff endlessly is a pretty boring business strategy and again creates the disillusionment of the masses as they gradually get wise to this. Innovation of NEW things is the road to glory!!!

    New games --- go back to all the smaller niche games, be adventurous like the good old days - look at Talisman as an awesome example of the early days. Fantasy Flight Games are a prime modern example of the success that GW once enjoyed. Focus on a couple of games a year maybe or even one new game per year. Allocate a 4' section to merchandise it on across all stores and get some games going over the weekends. Talisman seems to be a massive success and it already has a bucket load of expansions availble - The Reaper, FrostMarch, The Highland, Dungeon. I know there is Blood Bowl and Necromunda etc, but there is not enough focus on them.

    Some others have mentioned a few other good ideas -- more focus on Forgeworld etc, this is a great idea to get more varied products in some of the stores, even if its just a showcase piece to go in the cabinets. I would love to see GW become great again with a new approach and set of values. I hope it does some of this stuff one day. All I can say is for the love of Jesus bring back Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone please.......

    Oh, and my final act as GW CEO is to can those god awful new minotaurs...

    dfb

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