"Deep end of Object Source Lighting - a mini Diorama project and OSL experimentation" - Page 2
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Thread: "Deep end of Object Source Lighting - a mini Diorama project and OSL experimentation"

  1. #21

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    What is the color ambient light going to be? Are you going to slant your colors in the dark areas to lean towards black, blue or something else? Right now, it appears - on my monitor - that the dead guy on the bottom is lit in the darker areas with just a dead darkness and the thing on top with an intense blue. Keeping things consistent is crucial. Were this my fig, I'd bring up the highlights in the darkened areas more, not a lot, but more than you have now. What can make the light really explode is to take the red areas and mix brown, black and white so you have a warm grey. WATCH the tonal value. You need to keep it tonally, light and dark, the same as the red would be in that area with the existing amount of light. Go to a burnt umber, black and white so the grey get's warmer and so on till you get close to and in direct line of sight with the lightsource. Use pure flaming red that has an undrecoat of white and maybe a coat of lemon yellow over the white before you put the red on. The contrast of dull, really dull and the brillinat red. It sounds backwards but this is a direct application of the idea of less being more..............much more. Here's some examples of mine that somewhat show what I'm talking about. The Neo Soviet fig is sort of what I'm talking about. I did it years ago and he was one of my first attempts at OSL. I would have done a better progression of the reds if I had it to do over again.





    To me, the light positions and tonal vlaues on this and the image below it are GREAT!! I literally looked for the LED for a moment.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  2. #22

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    @Prophecy07: Yes, you are totally right. On my first iteration of the armor highlights I blended green towards the edges and I think that looked really nice. Afterwards I felt the highlighted area needed to be a bit bigger so I re-highlighted and decided to work on just that and save the green part for later. Thanks for reminding me though, I'll have to remember to get the highlights greenish on everything in the end.
    Thanks for the comment on the light placement on the stealer, I appreciate that. However that's really all I've done on the stealer, and I've yet to go into coloration there.

    @Shawn R. L.: Thanks for a lot of good advice. I had meant to have the shadows blueish but I'm not sure I can pull that off, so I might shift the shades for the unlit red parts to more of a more grey-black. Picking up the highlights in the unlit parts will surely make it pop, but first I'm going to deepen the deepest shades down to complete black. That'll also add contrast up to the highlights.
    I haven't worked on the unlit shades on the stealer so it looks very inconsistent now. I'll take your advice and really try to keep consistency between the parts of the model. I would have been tempted to forget that and shade them separately. All the stealer has right now though is a blue basecoat over the black/white OSL-light placement map.
    That warm grey up to red thing is exactly what I've been looking for, whether I implement it like that or not, I've been thinking about whether the colors should be completely lost in the shades and turn grey/blueish grey and then just colorize as the light source hits. I'll try out your ideas ASAP. I went through your CMON pics yesterday or Sunday and picked out the OSL ones and studied them a bit. There's a lot of seroiusly good lighting there so I really appreciate your advice. Thanks!

  3. #23

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    real good job your doing here, told ya this would be a bugger to pull off,, well done so far reach round and give yourself a pat on the back.
    LAAARRFF, I SPLIT MY SIDES!!

    cassar [demigod] |ˈdemēˌgäd|
    noun ( fem. demigoddess |ˈdemēˌgädis| )
    a being with partial or lesser divine status, such as a minor deity, the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank.
    • a person who is greatly admired or feared.
    ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: translating Latin semideus .

    on a serious note, i do commissions, no really i do, ask and ye shall receive


  4. #24

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    There's a lot of back and forth with OSL. Different techniques etc...all valid and useful. Shade, wash, shade again. Working out the light with just black and white then using washes for the color can be useful but in areas where you want the colors to be not quite as dull, washes can give a more saturated look than mixing will give you.
    Last edited by Shawn R. L.; 05-04-2010 at 01:55 PM.

  5. #25

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    Thanks cassar, maybe I will!

    There's alot of back and forth with all painting in my case Shawn, especially new techniques. I figured it would be no less with OSL

    Too bad I couldn't try more stuff out tonight as I decided to work a little with plasticard and get the whole Diorama roughly set up, just to have a bit more overview.




    Obviously I'm saving alot of conversion time by using the awesome dynamic minis from Space Hulk, which are cooler than any conversion I'd do anyway

    As for the OSL, the light from the second marine's visor will be hitting the second stealer straight in the face, also lighting up the wall behind and casting a stealer shaped shadow upon it. I'm also hoping to add a blueish glow to the Powerfist that will light up parts of that marine as well as the mess of a stealer he's holding.

    Hopefully more actual OSL painting for the next update. Good night!

  6. #26

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    OK, got the display space all nice and black and the two new minis midnight blue, just to have a similar starting point to the first part.
    Painted the head/skull thing the genestealer is holding and shaded and highlighted the first stealer. Also revisited the dead marines shoulder pads once again. I tried to get more green into all the highlights so it feel like it's all lit by the same light source. That's still a work in progress.
    I've also shaded a whole lot of "unlit" places down to black, to try and get more depth in the whole piece.



    What I see very clearly now is that while the highlight placement is OK, the intensity is too monotone. I need much more intensity closer to the light source. So the shoulder pads need much more light and the stealer's right hand need quite a bit more. I also need to really pick up the brightness on the inside of the dead marine's collar. That way I'll hopefully get like an attenuating sphere of light centered at the dead marine's head.

    So that's what I feel right now. I'd appreciate to hear others' thoughts as well!

  7. #27

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    Hard to capture that effect but you're doing great. I love all those WIP shots, I do think that one of the first shots with the rest black looked the best. Now the armor looks to light compared to the light source IMO. But yes, it just looks wow.
    Quote Originally Posted by uberdark View Post
    i prefer to get two miniatures and rub them around on my gaming bobos.
    Totally going for #1 -->

  8. #28

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    How about a spotlight from the 'live' marine's shoulder unit focused on a spot behind (closer to the viewer) just catching a bit of the stealer coming from the wall. Also the first thing that I thought of looking/hearing of your plan was of lights in the floor along the wall. I'm thinking of LED lights that most of the theaters have in the floor to guide people out as a movie is playing. Just a thought.
    "Yes, yes, yes. Woman are in awe of his manhood and men swoon in his wake. Truly he is a legend in his own mind."

  9. #29

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    Just an Idea, how about a "Flare" thrown on the floor by the live marine as he entered the room? directly under the genstealer on the wall.

  10. #30

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    Thanks A Luna! I think I need to brighten the light source itself in order for this to make sence, that is brighted what's closest to it, which is the inside of the "collar" and the skull. I do enjoy documenting all the WIP

    @mud duck: The plan was is to have a spot light from the live Marine pointing at the stealer coming from the wall. I just realized that the shoulder thing would maybe be a better source than the eye lenses themselves. I've got to check how that's positioned, as I positioned the marine so that it's looking straight at the stealer, but the shoulder light is a bit off. Maybe I'll try to use both. The lenses straight on with a green tinted light but a white spotlight from the shoulder, hitting a bit to the right.

    @Tercha: The flare is a cool idea but that, and the floor lights idea, would require more interesting modeling of the floor and back wall, which I basically modeled just to be pitch black background. The wall that the stealer is breaking out of is however meant to be lit up in the end, as well as that stealer.

    I hoped to paint a little tonight, but ended up actually playing Space Hulk, which was great We played mission VIII: Escape Route and I won as Marines (but now the internet tells me that mission is an easy win for marines anyway).

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tercha View Post
    Just an Idea, how about a "Flare" thrown on the floor by the live marine as he entered the room? directly under the genstealer on the wall.
    Ohhh, that would be cool.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn R. L. View Post
    Ohhh, that would be cool.
    It would, wouldn't it?
    I'll see how this looks after going for my initial plan. Maybe adding something like a flare to light up the front of the live marine is just what I need. Maybe I'll just have to do that on another stealer

    This is where I'm at:



    I thought the effect would be stronger on the photo, since I really went to town on the bright highlights, and did them rather selectively, stronger closer to the light source. I also tried to add a circle of light around the dead marine's skull, as it were backlit, to make the lightsource itself seem stronger.

    I leveled the photo a bit more drastically just to see if the effect wasn't there, even if it wasn't strong enough:



    I think the hanging head thing may be a bit too bright, to make sense with the other stuff that's supposed to be lit with the same light source. Also, there are still dark spot's behind the skull, making it seem less like the light source is right there behind it.

    I'm going to let this part be now and begin painting the live marine and stealer breaking through the wall. All details, claws, tongue, etc. are still left but i want to get the light effect nice before I add that stuff.

    If anyone can point out specific parts where they feel the brightness or coloration is off and could be made more realistic that would be hugely appreciated.

    Thank's everyone who's commented, C&C is very welcome!
    Last edited by Solun Decius; 05-08-2010 at 12:46 PM.

  13. #33

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    I think the rest of that marine has to be near black as the green glow from inside the suit won't illuminate anything else. If you are going for a pitch black room then thats my thoughts.


    I've chosen my side.


  14. #34

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    Couple of things you might want to try - Lighten up the shadows in the eye sockets and nose and the dark area around the neck/under the skull. Also, lighten the shadow on top of the skull a bit. The latter will help the skull 'connect' more with the body and light source.

  15. #35

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    Here's a quickie I did in Photoshop. I lightened the eye and nose holes and under the neck. Also, I heightened the highlights to keep the tone contrast up. The one on the left is untouched.
    Name:  osltermiewip03..jpg
Views: 652
Size:  18.8 KB

    How do you get a picture to show up full size??
    Last edited by Shawn R. L.; 05-08-2010 at 01:58 PM.

  16. #36

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    Oh, cool! Thanks so much. I knew I needed to get the skull to represent the light source better but I couldn't visualize it. That photoshop job you did totally gets the point across.
    I can't wait to try that out. Too bad I'm sick as a dog and don't know if I can sit upright long enough to paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn R. L. View Post
    How do you get a picture to show up full size??
    I actually don't use attachments or upload my images onto CMON at all. I upload at http://imageshack.us and when it's uploaded I copy the "Direct link" and in my reply I put it in between [img] and [/img] tags. Like so:

    [img]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5315/osldioramawip04b.jpg[/img]

    (I use the [noparse][/noparse] tags to show this without it actually working and showing the photo).

    I just use imageshack without logging in or registering or anything. Just anonymously upload the image and copy the link. Photobucket is another popular one and I think you can link your flickr photos in this way too. (Correct me if I'm wrong but there's a direct link to the CMON gallery images too, right?)

    A great trick to see how someone does something on these boards is to use "Reply with quote". Then you get all their raw BB code up and can copy it. Afterwards you just cancel the reply.

    @Niall: Yes. It might be more realistic that way, but I'm hoping to get away with a little ambient light on the marine, just so that it's less boring Also, I'm hoping the other part of the diorama with another light source will help fake the possibility of some ambient light in the room (without actually applying it to the walls?).
    Last edited by Solun Decius; 05-08-2010 at 04:04 PM.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solun Decius View Post
    It would, wouldn't it?
    I'll see how this looks after going for my initial plan. Maybe adding something like a flare to light up the front of the live marine is just what I need. Maybe I'll just have to do that on another stealer

    This is where I'm at:



    I thought the effect would be stronger on the photo, since I really went to town on the bright highlights, and did them rather selectively, stronger closer to the light source. I also tried to add a circle of light around the dead marine's skull, as it were backlit, to make the lightsource itself seem stronger.

    I leveled the photo a bit more drastically just to see if the effect wasn't there, even if it wasn't strong enough:



    I think the hanging head thing may be a bit too bright, to make sense with the other stuff that's supposed to be lit with the same light source. Also, there are still dark spot's behind the skull, making it seem less like the light source is right there behind it.

    I'm going to let this part be now and begin painting the live marine and stealer breaking through the wall. All details, claws, tongue, etc. are still left but i want to get the light effect nice before I add that stuff.

    If anyone can point out specific parts where they feel the brightness or coloration is off and could be made more realistic that would be hugely appreciated.

    Thank's everyone who's commented, C&C is very welcome!
    the cables on the dark side of the skull hanging from the stealers hand are illuminated they look like they should be in shadow cast by the skull its in shadow on that side so should they be, other than that its perfect.
    LAAARRFF, I SPLIT MY SIDES!!

    cassar [demigod] |ˈdemēˌgäd|
    noun ( fem. demigoddess |ˈdemēˌgädis| )
    a being with partial or lesser divine status, such as a minor deity, the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank.
    • a person who is greatly admired or feared.
    ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: translating Latin semideus .

    on a serious note, i do commissions, no really i do, ask and ye shall receive


  18. #38

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    @cassar: You're totally right. I was going to tone down the highlights on that head and cables, but that cast shadow (or lack thereof) had evaded my attention. Now I've fixed both and it looks much better. Thanks!

    So, some pain killers and cake for dinner got me back on my feet and I did a little painting, all of it from advice I got from you guys. Thank you very much!



    OK, the dark spot behind the neck/collar is actually a really deep hole in the model, and no matter how much white paint I put in there, I'm never able to light it for photography. I think I might have to fill the collar up with green stuff in order to get the strong white needed to look like a light source.
    However, it still looks a whole lot better now and (if you squint) is starting to feel like actual light again.

    I brightened the whole skull and glazed some green onto it. This was a lot of back and forth with bone/browns, green and pure white, until I felt it was satisfactory (maybe the green is a bit too patchy?). I also filled the collar with white and again glazed green back and forth until it was OK. Then I re-lit and shaded the outside of the collar too.

    I could still go even brighter on the bottom part of the skull but I'm really starting to feel this might work now.
    I did paint some bright green and white inside the eye sockets and nose, like the light source is actually lighting up the inside of the skull as well, but I failed to light the model right for the photo to catch that. I think I need a second light to get rid of all the "real world" shadows.

    I added the cast shadow from the hanging head onto it's cables and darkened the whole shade of the cables and head, also adding green glaze for nice effect.

    I also tried a different angle to see if the effect works all round. I think the hanging head looks pretty convincing from that view.

    Anyway, thanks for all the comments and C&C is always very much appreciated

    PS. This very post is exactly why I started this thread here at CMON. A couple of good advice, implemented right away, and my model suddenly looks 10 times better.

  19. #39

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    i dont see anything other than perfection a really really impressive bit o work ! so far so good baited breath awaits the rest of this dio..
    LAAARRFF, I SPLIT MY SIDES!!

    cassar [demigod] |ˈdemēˌgäd|
    noun ( fem. demigoddess |ˈdemēˌgädis| )
    a being with partial or lesser divine status, such as a minor deity, the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank.
    • a person who is greatly admired or feared.
    ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: translating Latin semideus .

    on a serious note, i do commissions, no really i do, ask and ye shall receive


  20. #40

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    Something you might consider to give you a little more control in the skull area is to putty in the eye sockets and any other 'holes' that have dark shadows then paint them to the tone you like. That's one of the little cheats I do when doing OSL since there are real, actual shadows that are cast that will conflict with the effect I'm trying for.

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