"Deep end of Object Source Lighting - a mini Diorama project and OSL experimentation" - Page 3
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Thread: "Deep end of Object Source Lighting - a mini Diorama project and OSL experimentation"

  1. #41

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    @cassar: Thank you very much

    @Shawn R. L.: Yeah, that thought had crossed my mind, especially with the hole behind the neck. I'm still going to consider that a perfection detail and at least save it till last.

    OK, now I've sort of specced the rest of the diorama by painting up the spotlight and doing that stealer shaped cast shadow. It's got a sort of comic-ish look to it but I'm really happy what a difference the cast shadow made in making it look convincing. Of course it will never make sense until the stealer's highlighted too.
    I'll consider later whether I try to make the light look more faded and natural or try to NMM more shininess onto the wall.
    I also painted up the light source in the live marine's eye.



    These are rather quick photos and exaggerated contrasts, just to get the point across.

    C&C always appreciated!

  2. #42

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    the cone on your spotlight looks a little to big to me. Maybe halfish on the diameter? Also you should be able to use the spotlight reflection off the wall to light both the live marine and the "dark" side of the stealer on the throne. Also Im thinking that you will have to add some detail to the floor as the reflected light will hit the it as well. Maybe some fine wire mesh, dare I say it, drybrushed with a bit of white?!? Glowing eyes on the stealers maybe as well? Actually I guess that you will have to glow one of then. Guess I am thinking something along the lines of cat eyes.
    "Yes, yes, yes. Woman are in awe of his manhood and men swoon in his wake. Truly he is a legend in his own mind."

  3. #43

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    i spent 10 minutes looking at the spot light effect trying to work out what's bothering me about it...the only thing that immediatly springs to mind is the shadow of the stealer its very jagged and pointy, at that sort of range it should be very sharp and well defined as you have it but the jaggedyness (yep i made that word up) seems a harsh it should show the curves more, i would agree that the spotlight should be a lot smaller, im trying to be constructive here so dont take offence but it seems like a ww2 prison camp search light at the moment. if i were you i would try a small led positioned where the termi is going to stand shining on the wall and mark your shadows etc from it. i think safely you could reduce it by three quarters that way it matches the stealer on the throne for illumination and does'nt take away from the throne. if that does'nt work i think your next move would be the flare lying on the floor and the glow from the terminators lenses and sensors this would light up the stealer like the other one but to a greater degree and the shadow cast would be a long spidery one fading out and merging with the dark as it hits the top of the wall and ceiling it would also highlight the termi from beneath, this has its own problems but you seem to be very good at the subtle stuff. thats my advice im saying no more good luck which ever way you take really impressed so far
    Last edited by cassar; 05-10-2010 at 04:38 AM.
    LAAARRFF, I SPLIT MY SIDES!!

    cassar [demigod] |ˈdemēˌgäd|
    noun ( fem. demigoddess |ˈdemēˌgädis| )
    a being with partial or lesser divine status, such as a minor deity, the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank.
    • a person who is greatly admired or feared.
    ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: translating Latin semideus .

    on a serious note, i do commissions, no really i do, ask and ye shall receive


  4. #44

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    Thanks for the comments on the spot light guys.

    @mud duck: You're right that with a light that bright I would need to use its reflection to illuminate the front of the marine and part of the throne stealer (which is perfect, just to have an excuse to paint the marine). The reflections will also have to be blended into the black shadows on the wall behind the stealer. I'm still postponing the whole floor idea
    Stealer eyes will probably end up pretty bright, as you suggest, just to make them stick out.

    @cassar: I certainly don't take offence in the comments and they're all very valid. Also, thank you for taking the time to stare at it
    The WW2 prison camp spotlight is very true. I was thinking it made the whole thing look a bit like theater, like its the stealer's solo in "Space Hulk, the Musical". That might be fixed by making the wall look more reflective, like metal. It's so flat and dull right now.
    I actually went to some lengths to get the shadow "correct" (LED, direct sunlight and positioning myself as the light). Most of the jaggedy stuff comes from the broken parts of wall around the stealer, rather than the stealer itself.
    I really want this stealer lit straight from the front, and I want it to be brighter than the throne part of the diorama. The flare (as cool as the idea is) is not something I'm ready to go for right now.

    I admit that the light cone is probably too big and the edges are too sharp. Maybe it would also benefit from being less regularly shaped, or shaped a bit like the terminator's eye. However, I have a strong feeling that the look of it will benefit hugely from the stealer itself being lit.

    So, without in any way disregarding the advice, I'm going to put the size/shape/material of the lit wall at the bottom of the list right now and start painting the stealer and the marine (which is probably something I should have done a long time ago). After that I'll be re-visiting the wall (and possibly even floor).

  5. #45

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    Quick highlights on the stealer here. I hope it connects with the light on the wall and ties the effect together.
    The tiny pictures are just different lighting and editing that exaggerate the effect but are more fake.





    I like this second photo. It may not be as smooth and realistic and "grimdark" as it should be but there's something there that I've been looking to capture. I hope I don't ruin that feeling when I start going for a smoother effect.

  6. #46

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    As a composition the spotlight is taking over. So bright and white. From a distance, the spot will have dimmed a bit. You may want to dull the green and turn the brightness/tone down.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn R. L. View Post
    As a composition the spotlight is taking over.
    Yes! Yes it is. I just realized I don't really know what I'm aiming for in the spotlight on the wall. Hence it just being a big fat white/green circle. So before I start going back and forth with no aim I'm going to get a clearer picture in my head. I am however sure that I want to light the genestealer this way from the front so I'm continuing that part in the same direction. So to do something I did a photoshop mock-up.

    JUST SO ITS CLEAR THIS IS A PHOTOSHOPPED IMAGE:



    Would something like this be better?

  8. #48

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    I think it looks much better in the photoshopped version, do that! I'm loving this, I'm very impressed with the amount of effort that you've put into it so far. I hope the updates continue to come as quickly as they have been so far.

    My suggestion has nothing to do with the painting and everything to do with the scenery. Even though it is dark and details will be hard to see, you really need to make sure your cuts in the plasticard are straight and neat. Right now they are a little rough which is distracting and brings down the quality of the paint job. Try using a straight edge clamped to the plasticard as a guide for your knife and make sure your knife blade is very sharp.

  9. #49

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    thats a lot better no stalag luft 13 there lol, re the plasticard use a file it should fit there no problem.
    LAAARRFF, I SPLIT MY SIDES!!

    cassar [demigod] |ˈdemēˌgäd|
    noun ( fem. demigoddess |ˈdemēˌgädis| )
    a being with partial or lesser divine status, such as a minor deity, the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank.
    • a person who is greatly admired or feared.
    ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: translating Latin semideus .

    on a serious note, i do commissions, no really i do, ask and ye shall receive


  10. #50

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    I've had a thought and am not too sure where the light source for the wall is meant to be from. I think I'm right in thinking it is from the box on the right hand shoulder of the terminator and looking at one of the pictures I am unsure if the angle of the light is correct. I photoshopped something to show what I mean. Hope it helps unless I've got the wrong end of the stick!
    Name:  Solun Decius' osl.jpg
Views: 525
Size:  48.0 KB

    Because as the terminator is standing at an angle the wall is not perpendicular to the light source, it should then cast onto the wall as an elipse not a perfect sphere.

    Looking really dramatic and good so far though!


    I've chosen my side.


  11. #51

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    I have editted one of your pics in photoshop to give you an idea of what shape the light should be casting onto the wall.



    I think it is too circular right now, like Niall has said, and needs to slant more because the light is not facing directly at a flat wall.
    Also while I was using the burn tool I realised that your blends are too gradual, If you can edit it so it is like this picture (if you agree with me) then you are definatly onto a winner.

  12. #52

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    @Hillbilly Carl: Thanks man. I hope I can put a little time in every night and keep the updates coming.
    About the plasticard, you're totally right. I knew I should have used a ruler to cut it and after I cut it I should have filed or cut it until it was straight. I just didn't have a ruler lying around and didn't have the patience to not just glue it right together to see how it looked. Also I've never been that good with these larger scale things (like painting tanks or that big green patch of light on that wall). I actually think, rather than re-cutting or filing, I should simply add smaller scale detail, like raised or beveled edges or covers on the grates (So much to do, so little time )

    @cassar: Heh! Thanks!

    @Niall: Right now the light source is placed at the eye of the terminator. I realized the shoulder thing would make more sense and changing to that would not make too much of a difference in the shadow placement, so its within the margin of error. Then I'll also have to turn the shoulder thing about 45 degrees so it points at the stealer.
    The light's line goes from the terminator's eye, straight into the face of the stealer (or actually just over it) and then hit's the wall below the elbow of the cast shadow. It should be somewhat elliptical but not as much as in your image. I'd have to take a photo from above to show the orientation right.
    I did stretch it a bit further up and to the right from what I considered the center but what would make the effect better would be to fade it more out towards that direction, yet let it last further, as it disperses more, while it concentrates below and to the left and should be more intense there, but fade quicker.
    Thanks for pointing this out. I'll bear it in mind when I try to fade the light source on the wall.

    After writing all that text I read Oden's reply which has a nice reference photo too It's much like what I was describing, except I'd also fade it towards the elongated part (up and right) because that part of the light cone is spread out over a bigger area and so each square inch receives less light (or something like that).

    Thanks for all the replies. I hope what I make of it won't disappoint!

    EDIT: One thing. It's easy to talk about fading the light on the wall. I'm torn though, between just trying to fade using pure black glazes, concentrating more to the edges, or if I'll need to mix the light's color with black and do layers upon layers of gradually changing colors.
    My impatience says "just go for the black" but I'm afraid I'll ruin the whole thing that way.
    Last edited by Solun Decius; 05-10-2010 at 05:33 PM.

  13. #53

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    Aaaargh! I was really going to give the whole wall light issue a rest for a while but as it's caused more commenting than any other part of the project I cauldn't let it be.

    Funny story: The sun has started to stay up quite long in the evening now so I can paint by daylight at my desk in the afternoons and evenings. It sets so gradually that I didn't notice tonight until I suddenly realized I was painting in the dark. You can imagine the horror when I finally turned on a lamp and realized what my blending actually looked like by then. Bleeah!

    Anyway, I fixed it up somewhat (yes, it looked even worse) but decided to post this just to show you the idea and that I'm using all your advice.




    I also took some atmo photos for fun, one of them probably the first of the left side of the stealer's cast shadow (notice the head and claws and stuff ).

    Once again, thanks for all the comments and advice. Its all really helping.
    Last edited by Solun Decius; 05-11-2010 at 05:34 AM.

  14. #54

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    i realise you still have plenty to do so ill keep it short 3 white bumps stealers lower back, shadow, nuff said.....wicked work
    LAAARRFF, I SPLIT MY SIDES!!

    cassar [demigod] |ˈdemēˌgäd|
    noun ( fem. demigoddess |ˈdemēˌgädis| )
    a being with partial or lesser divine status, such as a minor deity, the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank.
    • a person who is greatly admired or feared.
    ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: translating Latin semideus .

    on a serious note, i do commissions, no really i do, ask and ye shall receive


  15. #55
    Cat-herder Extraordinaire Meph's Avatar
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    Besides all the good comments being offered here I just want to say. Dude this is frickin' awesome what you're doing here! Drops the jaw of everybody I show it too, even if they're not artistically oriented.
    Large Blood Angels Terminator
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    -"Alien fart bubbles. It's all one needs in life to find direction and motivation."- Digganob

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassar View Post
    3 white bumps stealers lower back, shadow
    Not part of stealer, part of wall, will make smoother thanks for checking in!

    @Meph: Thanks dude! Killer compliment, now I'll be all straight in the back and grinning proudly for the rest of the day

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solun Decius View Post

    Funny story: The sun has started to stay up quite long in the evening now so I can paint by daylight at my desk in the afternoons and evenings.
    Way off topic but this brought to mind a funny story of my own. I was part of a model club and one fellow said he came into his work room after a vacation and found a tank had been cut in HALF by what looked like a death ray. He realized he had left a magnifying glass setting in such a way that each day as the sun arched over it passed the hot spot across his tank and so it gradually cut it in half!! DOOOOOHHH!!!

  18. #58

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    I'm enjoying the progress Solun, keep it up

    Cheers, B.
    My CMON Gallery Rank...

  19. #59

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    @Shawn: Haha, that's actually hilarious. The sun is now actually pretty ruthless in the afternoons on the window behind my desk. If I left my paints out and the windows uncovered I seriously think they'd either melt or explode. A magnifying glass would just be a fire waiting to happen in there
    Was cloudy this afternoon, so nice daylight to paint but without hell's furnace.

    Thanks BPI!

    OK, I re-highlighted the first stealer so that it fits better with the style of the other one. I like that better as it seems a more blatant OSL effect, though it is a lot less subtle. Looking at it now I should maybe fade the highlights a bit as they draw further from the light source.
    I also did a base coat of red on the marine, but only where it would be hit from a reflection from the wall. I'm going to shade that part pretty deep and then highlight a bit towards the green like the rest of the scene.




    I'm also experimenting with the photos/lighting. The better the photos, the less I have to tweak them afterwards. The dead marine's collar light is also starting to shine, just from better light placement and I'm still just using one diffused light source to light the whole scene.

    I really the photo in the center, of the two light sources. it really feels like the terminator armors are filled with green light.

  20. #60

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    Just my opinion here but I liked this piece much more before the spotlight came in. The dead guy in the suit is such a good center that the spotlight and extra room to include it and the other fig steal away from the dead guy. It's almost as if these were two separate dioramas that are set side by side - both good ideas and being pulled off well. Just my opinion.

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