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  1. #21
    Superfreak!!! lizcam's Avatar
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    The other thing Roger didn't say was this is for a game that's in the works at the moment and this, I assume, will be one of the monsters you will have to defeat.
    We done done it now. We're finally hitched. We are now the dreaded two headed Roger - Liz - Bunting monster you have all feared.

  2. #22

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    Blearrrgggghhh sounds nasty roger. Wonder what game it is?

  3. #23

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    2 ) She is not capable of having sex and the scene of its tail going into the laying down women is not rape. It's actually draining a miscarriage for nutrients. Its.. its own bizarre ecosystem.
    That's hardly an improvement. 9_9

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead View Post
    That's hardly an improvement. 9_9
    I would agree...it's hard to imagine something that would make rape sound almost mundane...

  5. #25
    Superfreak!!! Torn blue sky's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say that, but it does lend more to the f*cked up nature of this beast...Which is entirely f*cked up. I suppose in the same way other life forms in existence use other animals as hosts for their young, which in turn eat the host creature from the inside out. Larvae that turn ants into zombies, steering them away from the nest to be devoured... Nature itself harbours it's own very real and very surreal "nightmares" that really only people in that field of study or enthusiasts acknowledge or even really know about. When put in terms such as this, where it's scaled up and humans would be the ones in the position of the host, it just becomes our "nightmare" as seen by the "how utterly ghastly" responses. Which in itself is interesting when you sit down and think about it.
    I have a cunning plan...So cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a Weasel...

  6. #26
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Bunting View Post
    She is not capable of having sex and the scene of its tail going into the laying down women is not rape. It's actually draining a miscarriage for nutrients. Its.. its own bizarre ecosystem.
    That probably won't change any opinions but there's the explanation as to what the tentacle thing is protruding from the rear.
    It still looks like a phallus, so that will be the automatic response.
    I still hold to the view that if a figure (or art work) has to be explained in writing then it's failed.
    I believe in Karma, what you give, is what you get returned. Affirmation; Savage Garden
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  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Bunting View Post
    2 ) She is not capable of having sex and the scene of its tail going into the laying down women is not rape. It's actually draining a miscarriage for nutrients. Its.. its own bizarre ecosystem.
    Depraved, this isn't art, it's twisted trivialisation of something tragic that is real and happens all over the world daily.

  8. #28

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    ok i obviously see the woman as getting ready to be raped and anyone else who sees it will most likely see it that way. but heres another question. what if the phallus would have a hook at the end of it? we sure would have undcerstood that one a lot better.

    also where am i gonna paint this sucker at? work? nope, nsfw.........home: got kids, so the only time i could actually afford to paint this would be at 10pm on nights when the moon is full and mercury is in retrograde.....hehe
    Brushlicking is the miniature painting equivalent of a rock'n'roll life-style!

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  9. #29

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    Well I guess whether you like it or not it's just not meant for your lifestyle, Ubie.

    Having pondered this on various forums now, I have decided I agree that from a design point of view, it is lazy. It's cobbled together. I agree that the tentacle part does look phallic and certainly does look like it could be rape. Even the actual intention is very emotive, but then so are many other subjects. Overall this isn't something I want to own.

  10. #30

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    I'm sure this is going to stir the pot a bit...

    Disturbing,

    up to this mini i have been quite impressed with kingdom deaths work. I think it's very cool, relatively small time outfit (compared to privateer, wyrd, GW and infinity) producing good quality sculpts. And i love that cmon is such a good distribution forum for these kind of grass roots hobby co's and sculptors (reaper website too btw).

    however, I am honestly repulsed by the mini. I love art, even shock art especially old school efforts at shock. but i think this piece isnt in that ballpark, quite simply it is going to be part of a game system. it's going to get pushed around a table or a map of a dungeon and have dice thrown around it. it's going to get handled heaps and eventually end up in a box in someones attic then eventually thrown away or sold at a garage sale as a disturbing paperweight or whatever. Really, mini's are tools for gaming, their intention is functional. Sure we can and do collect them and may personally consider them art. But come on now wargaming and roleplay has been going on for decades even when the mini's were absolute pants.

    My incoherent rambling is coming to a point :P...

    When i see these kind of models (including the infinitely tamer pinup range from kabuki and the "motorboat me and die" topless cmon barbarian chick) it just makes me think "what the hell is going on with our hobby?" Well sculpted indeed, but after a long hard look at oneself it's difficult to say i would ever buy them. It makes me feel a little ashamed of our hobby when i see such totally pointless sexualisation of little lumps of plastic, resin and metal. Lets keep Porn and Miniatures separate thanks.

  11. #31
    Superfreak!!! Torn blue sky's Avatar
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    ^

    The most valid point in this thread by my reckoning. At the end of the day, it's just that; a little lump of plastic/resin (sorry Hinton)/ metal, that serves a purpose. I can't help but think that somehow one day people are going to look at something as trivial as this in the same way the plebs at art galleries look at paintings of circles in square boxes and gush about how it's objectifying X or X through the medium of shapes and should be boycotted immediately.
    We live in a world where that scrotum, Hirst won the turner prize for cutting a sheep in half and suspending it in formaldehyde ffs! What purpose did that serve? Granted it was met by objections, much the same as this has, but one fact remains. He won the top accolade, and this thing sold out. To be honest, I can see why this sold out above and over what people saw in an eviscerated sheep in embalming fluid...
    I have a cunning plan...So cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a Weasel...

  12. #32

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    I love the mini. I didn't order it though as it's size is too large for me to paint in anything less than about 6 months with my hobby time nowadays.

    I've said on other boards that I like it contextually in the KD setting. As a horror demon thing I find it (and the Gorm from their earlier release) to be more disturbing and horrifying than the typical stock demon with horns, a tail, and sharp pointy stuff that tend to get pumped out. So for me I guess I appreciate it on a level of originality and horror.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellshock View Post
    Depraved, this isn't art, it's twisted trivialisation of something tragic that is real and happens all over the world daily.
    massive breastfeeding machines are everywhere?!
    Quote Originally Posted by hajmoid View Post
    the "motorboat me and die" topless cmon barbarian chick)
    awesome!
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/freak-in-a-cage/freakinacage-1.jpg

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by hajmoid View Post
    I'm sure this is going to stir the pot a bit...

    When i see these kind of models (including the infinitely tamer pinup range from kabuki and the "motorboat me and die" topless cmon barbarian chick) it just makes me think "what the hell is going on with our hobby?" .

    I don't buy the Kabuki stuff either, for similar reasons.

  15. #35

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    I haven't seen the actually mini yet, but I think i can get the gist....This thing (along with the afore mentioned Kabuki minis), even if made with good intentions as embodiments of all that is evil, etc. The imagery and actual minis just add to the 'perverted smelly guy locked in a basement' that can be seen as a stereotype of the mini gamer (yes, I'm the survey guy). I feel the hobby already has a bad stigma by 'outsiders' and this kind of thing only widens that gap.

    True, this kind of thing will always have it's place ( as illustrated by it's sold out in 24(?) hrs) and America, specifically, is prudish in it's thinking of this subject matter, but I have to question the implications of these type of things. Demonic Mother's don't have to be nude or abundantly endowed to be evil, or shocking, nor do female heroes need to be topless with a weapon to be powerful and sensual at the same time...

    I did buy the KD death knight figure, but I must admit, I thought that figure was already stretching the boundaries of acceptability...

    Edited to add:
    I do know there are a few sculptors out there who do this sort of thing as a comical relief sort of thing (klockenbooty comes to mind), but I feel while they are immature and sophomorish, that is the point in those cases. When it becomes intentionally serious and sexual in nature (not to mention the main focus of the company) it becomes even more insulting and twisted.
    Last edited by cannon_fodder; 11-22-2010 at 01:24 PM.

  16. #36
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hajmoid View Post
    I'm sure this is going to stir the pot a bit...

    "what the hell is going on with our hobby?"
    Basically nothing that hasn't been happening for the 40 + years I've been in the hobby.
    Pheonix (the original company) were producing "tittilating" and anatomically correct female miniatures in the early 70's.
    The vast majority of Minipainters and collectors are men and there are some manufacturers who are pandering to a need for sexual thematic minis. (Lets face it, Sex Sells).
    Pili Pili, Pheonix Follies, Seil Models are blatently sexually exploitive and ultimately demeaning by depicting women as sexual objects. I undoubtedly there are people (men) out there will find their "stimulation" from figures such as these, thankfully I'm not one of them.
    .....................
    I believe in Karma, what you give, is what you get returned. Affirmation; Savage Garden
    Oh look my IQ results came in:-
    , and proud of it.

  17. #37

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    point-set-match to DR.

  18. #38
    Superfreak!!! lizcam's Avatar
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    You know, I can't speak for all female painters of course, but I find that a good number of them (including Donna and me) also collect the naked female minis. Donna would be happier if there were more male minis without clothes but there are quite a few naked chicks in our mini hoard. Well made minis are well made minis. A lot of them are naked. So be it.
    We done done it now. We're finally hitched. We are now the dreaded two headed Roger - Liz - Bunting monster you have all feared.

  19. #39
    Superfreak!!! Torn blue sky's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Liz, I know a good few female painters that really dig painting naked chicks. On the whole naked theme, there's countless male minis wearing loincloths and the like, your generic barbarian figures and suchlike. I don't see any blokes weeping and wailing about it being sexually exploitative...
    End of the day, people are going to make up their own minds about what they see. If you see a scantily clad female toy soldier (and lets face it, that's what they are) and your mind screams "Sexual exploitation!" well, my heart is bleeding purple piss for you, it really is. That poor little lump of metal being exploited like that. A lot of people will see it as art, some might get off on it, some might only be able to paint flesh tones and like it for that reason alone...Ultimately you can chase this conversation around in circles untill the cows come home and bugger back off to pasture again.
    What happened to the days when you could just see something for what it actually is without attaching stigmas and reading into it?!
    I have a cunning plan...So cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a Weasel...

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torn blue sky View Post
    That poor little lump of metal being exploited like that.
    I doubt anyone would argue that the material itself is being exploited, but it's the imagery that matters. The trouble with imagery is that, for every person who isn't affected by it (eg, isn't desensitized to violence or objectifies women, or doesn't feel less compassion for the suffering of others,) there's someone else who is. In issues like this you have to think of general trends and tendencies. Show enough violent rape porn to enough people, and someone's going to turn into a rapist who otherwise wouldn't have done. And all the others will shout "hey, I wanna keep my rape porn, because I'm not a rapist!" And what kind of effect size (eg, what percentage of your sample size turns into rapists) is big enough before people are willing to do something about it?

    Anyway, the problem is that things like objectification are hard to pin down and quantify.

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