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Thread: 8thEditionRuleBook

  1. #1

    Default 8thEditionRuleBook

    If you turn to any online forum you will find that generally people don’t think much of WHB 8th and that is just very kind way of saying that something went terribly wrong in development new rulebook.
    There is no escaping from that. We can all keep bitching about but it is not going to change anything. I consider myself as hard core fan of game I think own to myself and other fans one more effort to try change something. I respect that some of U might think I am some kind of wackoo with no say.
    You right alone I am just a wackoo. But This is one of biggest online forums devoted miniatures, and just hope that its fool of wackoo’s like me.
    I would like you to think about list of top 5 most annoying things about 8th Edition rules or just WFB in general. Posted it whenever you can, shear it on face book twitter and send copy of it to GW customer services. Please, least try to not offend anyone. I is not about how rude we can be, It should be about constructive massage.

    Let me start it off.
    1. New charge. Increase greatly randomness of game and personally I think that is wrong thing, spoils tactic factor of this hobby.
    2. Unbalanced armies.
    3. Long waiting period for new updated army Book. I am still have War hammer Armies from 1988 (real masterpiece) and I think that’s way GW should be giving us new Army List. All in one book. Put flaf to white dwarf it will make it readable.
    4. Extremely low involvement of us players in development process. We should be consulted as we will be potential buyers. Beta versions should be realised, before final changes.
    5. And once again flaf. I hate flaf in army book. But I would not mind spent some cash on good historiography of WFB something like Silmarillion. Going in detail of history of races.

    I hope there is still hope
    Sorry For my English (still learning)


    Lukasz Chojara

  2. #2

    Default

    Personally I like the 8th ed, then the previous 2.
    Most of the hate comes from people, who have no clue how to play and just used the strongest armies with the best (or worst depending on view) lists from the net.
    Most armies didn't have a chance againt these streamrolling armies. And they thought they know how to play. Now that most troops can actually attack back it's a problem.
    The 2 things I don't like: random charge distance, true Los. The rest is ok for me.

    About the points, you made:
    1. on this one I agree, this was not a good idea. Then again it's effect is overrated. With average rolls the distance is about the same or more.
    2. doesn't depend on 8th, just GW armies in general
    3. again it's not because of 8th, but GW in general. hmm list from 1988 that wasn't updated... which one is it? the oldes unupdated ones are the Ogre/WE/TK ones, but they are from 200X.
    4. true but similar the Videogame/film/car industry is similar, so it comes from the corporation thing.
    5. personally I like the background of the armies, more than the raw statlines.


    edit: sorry misread your 3rd point.
    Yes updating all armies in a book would be a good thing (ala warmachine/hordes).
    And a rumour goes, that as soon as all the armybooks are updated to 8th they'll change the release to books that update every army with 1-2 new entries. We'll se if it turns out to be real or not.
    Last edited by MAXXxxx; 02-16-2011 at 09:20 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re

    I my personal feeling is that people involved in WFB are losing interest not because they don’t know how to play. My gamming groups are losing top players. Those who usually had 3 or more armies (each of them eat least 2000 point or more), at usually was in top rankings in local tournaments.
    And it’s not just me mooning. Check this episode of RHQ TV http://www.rankingshq.com/rhqtv/vide...RhqTvVideoId=6
    Fact is usually people with loads with experience are most unhappy about changes. So saying that “Most of the hate comes from people, who have no clue how to play” doesn’t reflect reality of game.
    Anyway thank you on contributing to tread and commenting on my points of hate J
    “1. on this one I agree, this was not a good idea. Then again it's effect is overrated.” I fully agree with this comment effect of random charging distance is overrated. Now charging doesn't matter if they have a higher initiative then you.

  4. #4

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    Well, as i see it, there's two types of gamer in this hobby. You have the competitive player and the player more interested in the story. The rules changes wont matter too much to the latter type of player. The rules are just there to facilitate the story. However the competitive gamer who ha just had the whole stance of his gameplan wiped out is going to be pretty pissed.

    GW as far as i can see is still run by the geeks who love narrative stories and campaigns. Now if it was all about the game, there'd be one set of rules and they'd never change. Trouble is GW would make feck all money. I never knew the game as competitive when i played (15 years ago). It was just fun. That was the point. People have set up tourneys and stuff and realised that the rule set isnt really geared for that style of play. The ambiguity of some rules is frankly horrendous, yet with common sense, they can be worked out. You want a tourney game, go play M:TG, rules dont change and they're set in stone.

    Most of the 8th bitching i've seen has come from those who's armies are suddenly less powerful than they used to be. I say get over it. Learn to play a different way or try something else. Things must change. GW must keep producing army books and rule sets to make money. Thats why you dont get one whole book with all the armies. That means less money. Fine int he 80's when they started up but not really viable now.

    As for the time taken with books, look at 40K. The Necron codex is the same codex from 3rd edition back int he late 90's. Over 10 years old! Why? Becuase it makes more sense to update the popular armies. Same with WFB.

    Armies have always been unbalanced. I remember playing well over 50 games with my old undead army from '93 onwards and not winning a single game against High Elves. Best magic, best warriors best everything. I had nothing that could compete. Prince sodding Tyrion would slaughter everything. Then Dark Elves came out. All the best bits of high elves but they hate high elves. I used to butcher Tyrion with regularity after that.... happy days.

  5. #5

    Default I am competitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wicksy View Post
    I remember playing well over 50 games with my old undead army from '93 onwards and not winning a single game against High Elves. Best magic, best warriors best everything. I had nothing that could compete.

    Yep. Obviously your not competitive type of player. By choice not beacuse lack of skill.


    Honestly I could not care less for with army I am bringing in to a battle as long game is constructed in way that skills will decide about victory, not %^$£”& charge roll. Those days in WFB luck factor became more important, and I can see why bunch of players fell so comftoble bechind D6. Yes I am aware that armies have been always unbalanced, but these days I am expecting bit more from GW. All bigger online games are bug fix and balanced regularly why we should not be expecting similar standards from GW. I do appreciate your love for narrative stories and campaigns, I do enjoy it myself. But that’s not a reason to ignore of flaws.
    I think we might not agree In terms of 8th edition.
    But would you agree that company as big game workshop should work bit more on regularly updating all army books / codex’s and game testing them so we have fairly balanced forces.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mis View Post

    But would you agree that company as big game workshop should work bit more on regularly updating all army books / codex’s and game testing them so we have fairly balanced forces.
    This has been a near constant for as long as I've been playing. (started in 96?)

    I for one welcome the new rules though. A lot of players get the hang of the rules, learn to min/max them, and then consistently trounce opponents with lists that are as close to statistically perfect as possible. Each time a new set of rules are released it completely throws off everyone's game enough that they are little better than a novice. (Some people can naturally understand rules implications better without having played games, but they're not the norm)

    Games start to stagnate once someone has their "perfect army" and it becomes dull to play against them. Sure, they get pissed because they don't have the best force possible anymore and they start losing on a more frequent basis. But the new rules, even when inconsistent, are different and it helps shake up a hobby game that easily stagnates.

    So cheers to having an inferior army! I'd rather have fun and lose then win and be formulaic.
    Nosus decipio - We Cheat

  7. #7

    Default

    HI all, mega newbie here but i think one of the first and aparently most important rules is to enjoy a challanging battle with freinds, not to win or lose, and bsicly make your own rules to suit your battle (not yourself)

    im clearly not a tourney player....

  8. #8

    Default

    You know what I'd like to see... and I'm saying this because someone mentioned it to me at the big tank battle at Gamesday Chicago... we were talking about how many of the peers in our age group (I'm in my 40's) don't play any more because of the time, and the gentlemen mentioned that he plays "another game" more frequently now, because he can purchase the pre-painted figures they have for that game. We started talkin more, and he mentioned a game shop in the area (mt prospect), and how what was growing there was the games with these types of pre-painted plastic miniatures. At first I balked, explaining how it would cheapen the game, but then he asked "and all those spray painted, or unpainted grey armies you see don't?" I had to admit his line of reasoning was pretty logical. Prepainted plastics might get more kids involved, and it would allow us adults who have our own kids and full lives to focus more on playing. It would make the game easy to "jump into" right away. Heck, the pre-painted plastic molded stuff is better than most the paint jobs I see at our GW on a given saturday anyway.

    Anyways, the discussion went on for 45 minutes or so, and we bantered about different ideas. We both agreed the 8th ed could have been better, and we both though storm of chaos was a bit over the top.

  9. #9

    Default

    i guess it all depends what your in it all for, i personaly would rather spend more time painting converting and modeling than actualy battling, the idea of a grey army sickens me. probaly why my vampire count armythat im working on is mostly still on the sprus apart from 5 completed skeletons and a few bits here and there

  10. #10

    Default 8th

    just after reading a few of the post. i can agree with some of the post and not withe the others. i play the game regularly and a few of the new rule`s i can not stand 1 is the random movement when charging. 2 pre messuring 3 no guess range for war machines. that is only 3 out of a whole new list of rules. so all in all it s not too bad from GW. i always liked the the huge infantry formation`s so proplr saying GW only intrested this rule to up player buying does not bother me as i have big block units already. Have to say a dwarf charging the same distance as a brit knight og a high elf chariot is a bit much for dome one with stumpy legs.
    i ll edit later phone call

  11. #11

    Default

    After I came back to WFB after playing last on 6'th edition, i was reading rulebook few days ago and everything my wife heard was: WTF! OGM what have they done!!! GEEEEZZZ!!! . Should be self-explaining.
    But the biggest issues i have:
    1. CHAAAARGEEEE!!!! ow wait...no no no...for some reason our charge move will be only 6" this turn so GTFO...who invented this random charge???!! Not knowing distances and having charge move 2xM was much better.
    2. Magic. OMFG that was written down by some drugged lunatic....random generated power dice?? 1 lvl wizard now have the same "power-dice-generation" as lvl 4? Dispel always only ~half power dice? And FFS(!!) miscast on irresitible force? No more comments on my side here...
    3. Supporting attacks...please....and spears working only for 3'rd rank...

    Some rules are changed nicely, but charging and magic is like 40% of this game....and that 40% is nerfed.

  12. #12

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    Both 7th and 8th edition rules are ok in my opinion* and the armies are more belanced now than they have ever been (with the exception of the Wood Elves army which is in desperate need of an update - due to the steadfast rule and hordes).

    * the 3rd ed rules were also good but they totally lost the plost with 4th and 5th ed rules which ruined the game for me and I stopped playing altogether until the 7th came out so I have no idea what edition 6 was like.

    I don't actually see a lot of complaining in forums, the new rules were well received in my forum (where we host lots of unofficial army books and have a lot of very clued up veterans - see my signature). There are some aspects of the game that I would personally change but also some 8th edition changes that I applaud.


    Charging
    ---------------
    Charging now is not beneficial enough because you don't get to strike first and only get a +1 combat res. I would either increase the combat res bonus or give a possibility of panicing the enemy if your charge is particularly successful. Or maybe, to make it simple, make the enemy pass a leadership twice if they fail their combat res immediately after they are charged. I'm not sure what the solution is but a +1 combat res bonus is not enough.


    Combat
    -------------
    Personally, I have always shrugged in dismay when a single model holds up a whole unit. It happens frequently in games and can look really silly and result in unfair outcomes. I don't know what the answer is but I wish it would be addressed (I'm not talking about a Lord, Hero or monster unit, I mean single miniatures like a lone Flagellant).


    Magic
    -------------
    I really like the changes they made here, it's much more unpredictable and exciting now. Remember all the scroll caddies in the years gone by ?! I understand some people being put off by the potential of magic to turn games but I quite like that. Bear in mind that magic quite quickly back fires if you try to go overboard and max out dice rolls and opt for the more powerful spells too often.


    Shooting
    -------------
    Is ok I guess but simply not as effective as it used to be because the importance of close combat has become so overwhelming. They could maybe tweak ranges or make most missile weapons armour piercing.


    Combat
    -------------
    Horde armies (like Skaven) and combat oriented armies (like Warriors of Chaos) have been granted a huge bonus due, respectively to the steadfast rule and supporting attacks. Both of the armies I just mentioned can feel imposible to beat if they get into 1v1 unit combat and you haven't managed to whittle them down first. I actually quite like the devastation of combat now and removing loads of miniatures each phase; it feels more like a fantasy battle.

    I would like them to increase the level of randomness a bit in close combat. Randomness has really reduced due to the number of dice being rolled and law of averages and, as a result, it's sometimes very obvious who will win a combat even when the troops are of similar pts value if it's a 1v1 combat.

    Again, I'm not totally sure how to address this but I'd like them to tweak it a bit (maybe the charge idea above would be enough)


    Anyway, those are my thoughts for now. I think most of the the rule changes and new army books over the past few years have been excellent. The prices of the minis is the real issue with the hobby, they are now becoming prohibitively expensive and a barrier to entry into the game for lots of younger people. Sometimes I feel like I'm paying for GW's strategic mistakes and all they shops they own rather than just the creative and manufacturing costs and their profit margin which I'm happy to pay for.

    Anyway, that's it folks,
    Sigmar

  13. #13

    Default The Way It Was

    I have played WFB since i was 11. I am now 31. I have seen editions come and go. Back in 4th edition troops didnt matter it as all about how many characters you could fit into the game. Unit killing heroes and army destroying magic ruled the day. Then came 6th edition. A system that was well tested and well balanced. The armys were perfectly balanced. Magic was deadly but could be delt with. Troops could flaten a lone hero and the game as a whole was gritty and very.stratiegic. Players would press and manuver to get the perfect charge arc. A show of skill and cunning. Alas we have 8th all that goes out the window. I see too much of 4th edition in thistim out. Its no wonder the hard core gamers are going back to 6/7th bideing time untill GW wakes up and puts out rules more akin to historical war gaming. Like 6th edition. As of right now they will continue to bleed off gamers while the noobs look around and wonder why no one likes 8th. It reminds me of 4th edition d&d. they screwed up a good thing and now no one plays it.

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