Crystal Brush 2011 post mortem
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 42

Thread: Crystal Brush 2011 post mortem

  1. #1

    Default Crystal Brush 2011 post mortem

    Phew, done and done for this year at least.

    If you stopped by to enter, you should have met me, David, Aina, John, Kevin or any one of the other Crystal Brush / Cool Mini staff. I must say the faces are a bit of a blur right now.

    Things that went well:

    1. We received some really great entries for a 1st year painting competition; special thanks to Jakob Nielsen, Alphonso Giraldes, Rick Taylor and the other international entrants that took the time to come down.
    2. Mike Mcvey, an old old hand at judging Golden Demons, was phenomenal and very helpful. You couldn't ask for a nicer bloke; but still a strict and professional judge in every respect. Thanks again Mike, couldn't have pulled it off without you.
    3. The AdeptiCon crew were top class, very easy to work with and accommodating of our "special" needs.
    4. The online voters -> If you had no faith in the online masses, it is now restored! The online voters top 25 matched almost identically Mike's top 25, except for position, which basically boils down to the individual. We received 46,000 votes total during the 12 hours of voting. Thank you all very much for participating in our event, and I use the word our inclusively, it is yours as much as the organizer's, the painters and the judges.

    Things that need improving:
    1. Entry process needs to include photography, taking models in and out for it just took too long. This means we'll need more staff (to do).
    2. Black velvet backdrop very nice for portraits, not so hot for models. We switched out to a neutral gray for Mike's "1st cut" shots, which will be uploaded shortly.
    3. C'mon guys, there are TONS of great 25mm, 1/35 historical miniatures out there. Marc Raley (who won 3 trophies in historical), expect more competition next year (I hope).
    4. I resisted having a 1st cut this year mainly due to the fewer entries we had. However, I think we'll have a broad first cut next year based on the judge's score (7+ I reckon) which will make the jobs of the online judges easier.

    For those of you who found the site slow, I apologize, we did the best we could by hosting the site on Amazon for the purpose of the competition (which is distributed computing with tons of resources). We will buy more bandwidth and speed in future so that it will be easy and painless for you to vote.

    Finally, are we going to have one next year? Abso-fucking-lutely. We are working with conventions around the world to give out air tickets to winners of their respective painting competitions to fly up and participate. We want as many people from all over the world to come by.

    The prizes will get bigger next year too, as we hopefully attract more sponsors now that we've shown that this kind of event can be done. So... upwards and onwards to Crystal Brush 2012! Rules will be published shortly

    Feedback is welcome! We'll be making tweaks for next year, so have at it!
    Last edited by Chern Ann; 04-04-2011 at 05:42 PM.
    I like it firm and fruity!

  2. #2

    Default

    I'm happy this first competition went well, with some room for improvement of course, which is normal. I'm sure the future for Crystal Brush is very bright! Now already a lot of people were talking about it. Of course a lot of people were complaining about the things you mentioned, but it didn't keep people from voting and waiting for the outcome of the competition.

    Thank you!

    Gerrie aka Corvus

  3. #3

    Default

    The difference between the #1 and #3 was 0.19 points (i.e. 1.9%). Super super close.
    Last edited by Chern Ann; 04-04-2011 at 05:41 PM.
    I like it firm and fruity!

  4. #4

    Default

    I think all in all it seems that it went very well for a first time. Controversies were expected and sour grapes, but looking at the winners I think the picks looks right.

  5. #5

    Default

    I wonder, whether it possible to see an example of a score sheet. Just too see how judges do it. It doesn't really matter whose, it could be empty.

  6. #6

    Default

    Mike just based his score out of 10, in 0.1 increments. Not sure what internal system he used, but as he's been the sole judge of over 10 Golden Demons I suppose he knew what he was doing. Next year we'll probably have 3 judges to balance it out.
    I like it firm and fruity!

  7. #7

    Default

    It seems there is plenty to grow on, both in terms of the right and the wrong.

    Kudos for pulling it off! I think it's an awesome idea. It could potentially become the Super Bowl of Mini painting.

  8. #8

    Default

    Kudos to you guys. It looks like, on the whole, all went well, and with some minor tweaking from little lessons learned that you've got a really great event.

    The next one should be even better, and from what I have seen, it would appear (to me anyway) that 3 of the top 4 entries came away with the 1,2,3 so that's just about the perfect outcome.

    Congrats to the winners, and good luck with the future, Chern Ann.

  9. #9

    Default

    Its really good to see a post show evaluation, deffo a nice breath of fresh air compared to the stagnant mistakes of competitions like GD. Would love to come next year (gonna have to start saving now though!)

    Some people are saying the quantity of entries was poor, but they seem to be forgetting that this is the first competition run by yourselves and the top three were pretty slick entries. I'm sure in a few years (especially with tickets as prizes elsewhere) the crystal brush will become a much sought after prize.
    Alex

  10. #10

    Default

    Well done for organising such an event.... and to pull in $13k of prize money is such an amazing feat.

    Photography aside.... plenty of comments on other threads regarding that... an improvement that I can think of would be to have more prizes so that it's not only the top 3 that get the money. I know that's a big incentive for those that regularly paint at the top level but for the middle ground there's not a lot of incentive to enter.
    The GD competitions don't have money as prizes... it's solely for the kudos of picking up a trophy... but they do have 3 trophies for each catagory... and for those lower down the painting scale there is the incentive of just making the first cut and getting a certificate.
    Maybe you could incorporate some of that structure into the competition so that there is a goal for more people to aim at .

    On the subject of the trophy ...lovely design but, did it have to be so large? I can't help but think that it would have been just as nice half the size....and a lot easier to carry and find somewhere to display.

    Again big respect to you for creating a great event and I am sure that with some tweeking here and there it will turn into an even better event that has the potential to make the GD events pale by comparrison.
    What you leave behind is not what is written on your tombstone but what is written in the heart of others.

  11. #11

    Default

    Actually everyone who placed got a trophy. Only Marike got the huge honking one. Check out the photo gallery at facebook.com/coolminiornot. Those are really beautiful trophies, hand cut crystal every one.
    I like it firm and fruity!

  12. #12

    Default

    Have you thought about spreading out the cash prize to more winners?

    I think you had $14,000

    OVERALL
    4,000
    2,500
    1,500

    Category Winners(12 categories?)
    300 each + Prize Pack
    150 each
    50 each


    Just a quick idea, not fully planned based on figures or anything.


  13. #13

    Default

    Surprised your holding a painting competion for display figures at a gaming convention.
    Gamers move figures around the table whereas painters are moved by the figures on the table!
    Definite difference between a miniature figure show and a gaming show...

    You actually held a painting competition in Chicago and Shep Paine, a local Chicagoan(sp?) wasn't a judge?

    A judging team that spans the spectrum of miniature figures is in order rather than a single judge with 10 years of just judging Golden Demons - maybe that's why "his" product came in first and GW products came in second and third. Kinda like having a car-show between Lamborginni, Porsche and Ferrari and the president of one of the companies had his vote weighted worth 50%. Can you guess which car would win everytime! Definite conflict of interest that casts a shadow on the integrity of the Crystal Brush Awards.

    You advertise it as a painting competition but its' really a sculpting and painting competition. Your first place winner wasn't just a stock figure and neither were numbers two or three. Maybe have an Open Class and a Painting Class.

    If you consider "Golden Demons" as tops, your not aiming high enough. Try aiming for the pinnacle of figure shows - a "World Expo", which occurs every three years, and, just so happens to be this summer in Switzerland - check out http://www.we2011.com. No +20K booty and I bet they attract over +2000 entries. As for the value of a Golden Demon, where's it's now more of a marketing tool for a multi-national rather than an award recogonizing artistic expression!

    The quality of a contest isn't judged by the size of a cheque/trophy but by the quality of judging and calibre of artists' participating.
    What value is a Crystal Brush Trophy if you're the only entry in that category.

    Just my 2.6 cents worth...
    (at today's exchange rate)

    thks
    joe
    Last edited by Justus; 04-06-2011 at 12:59 AM. Reason: Correct spelling

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Justus View Post
    You advertise it as a painting competition but its' really a sculpting and painting competition. Your first place winner wasn't just a stock figure and neither were numbers two or three. Maybe have an Open Class and a Painting Class.
    The first place winner was a stock figure with nice basework, and a very small amount of putty around the bottom of the dress to integrate it with the base. If there had been an open class and a painting class, it would have been entered in the painting class.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Justus View Post
    A judging team that spans the spectrum of miniature figures is in order rather than a single judge with 10 years of just judging Golden Demons - maybe that's why "his" product came in first and GW products came in second and third. Kinda like having a car-show between Lamborginni, Porsche and Ferrari and the president of one of the companies had his vote weighted worth 50%. Can you guess which car would win everytime! Definite conflict of interest that casts a shadow on the integrity of the Crystal Brush Awards.
    I should really bite my tongue but I can't. To suggest that Mike picked Marike because she painted one of our figures is a load of rubbish and utterly insulting to both Marike and Mike...and Jakob because he painted a GW figure and Mike used to work for GW...ooh spooky coincidence. To say it casts a shadow over this years competition is also ridiculous and completely insulting.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffy View Post
    I should really bite my tongue but I can't. To suggest that Mike picked Marike because she painted one of our figures is a load of rubbish and utterly insulting to both Marike and Mike...and Jakob because he painted a GW figure and Mike used to work for GW...ooh spooky coincidence. To say it casts a shadow over this years competition is also ridiculous and completely insulting.
    Meh, it's easy to criticize from a position of ignorance. Don't let it get your hackles up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Justus View Post
    Surprised your holding a painting competion for display figures at a gaming convention.
    Gamers move figures around the table whereas painters are moved by the figures on the table!
    Definite difference between a miniature figure show and a gaming show...

    You actually held a painting competition in Chicago and Shep Paine, a local Chicagoan(sp?) wasn't a judge?

    [edit]

    If you consider "Golden Demons" as tops, your not aiming high enough. Try aiming for the pinnacle of figure shows - a "World Expo", which occurs every three years, and, just so happens to be this summer in Switzerland - check out http://www.we2011.com. No +20K booty and I bet they attract over +2000 entries. As for the value of a Golden Demon, where's it's now more of a marketing tool for a multi-national rather than an award recogonizing artistic expression!

    The quality of a contest isn't judged by the size of a cheque/trophy but by the quality of judging and calibre of artists' participating.
    What value is a Crystal Brush Trophy if you're the only entry in that category.
    For us at CoolMiniOrNot, there is no difference between a scratch built model and a manufactured one, since we are only rewarding the painter. Knowing the industry like we do, it is a relatively inexpensive process to have any kind of concept sculpted, which makes drawing the line between a "stock" figure and a scratch built model blurred, or in some cases completely meaningless (e.g. a studio painter enters a painted green of a subsequently manufactured production sculpt). Rewarding a "scratch build" by recognizing sculpting work will also, if we wish to maintain consistency, mean recognizing production sculptors for miniatures used in the stock category.

    Since voters neither know nor care particularly, this is not a consideration. Alfonso Giraldes, our 2nd runner up, is also a studio sculptor for several boutique miniature companies; there may be some value in creating a category that is "all your own work, from start to finish, no components used from anywhere else", but the field of entrants is likely to be so small, and so controversial (professional sculptors and painters only) that I do not see how it could be done without it being a farce. However, I am ready to be persuaded otherwise.

    Choice of venue, and medium:- Since we are primarily interested in 28mm-32mm scale figures, being what we are, we are a very different animal from the World Expo, which attracts primarily military modellers at 54mm scales or larger, a completely different audience and skill set. For those of you who are not aware of the World Expo, here's a link http://www.we2011.com. The figures we are interested in are primarily in a scale used for gaming, hence a gaming convention.

    Certainly, you are entitled to your opinion that the Crystal Brush doesn't have enough artistic merit nor value to be viewed as a serious competition; you may want to consider that the example you brought up has been running since 1968. We've just run our first. I'm not quite certain what course of action you think would be appropriate here; nothing can quite replace the value of time for gravitas, so the only thing I can really say is that yes, we aspire to a world standard and intend to run this in perpetuity.

    Since you dismiss the artistic merit in the Golden Demons as well with such a broad stroke, I'd have to say, this probably isn't what you're looking for either; not necessarily a bad thing but we can't accommodate all tastes.
    I like it firm and fruity!

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LegionoftheCow View Post
    Have you thought about spreading out the cash prize to more winners?

    Category Winners(12 categories?)
    300 each + Prize Pack
    150 each
    50 each
    No! Cash prizes need to be either meaningful or not at all. Anything less then 500$ is rather pointless. In the case of many miniature painter I should think that at the very least a prize should substantially offset travel cost. $50 would hardly do it, and frankly is somewhat insulting as most miniatures at the level of the third place could be sold for considerably more then that.

  18. #18

    Default

    I know the photography issue has been brought up elsewhere, but felt I should just add another name to that list. Due to a very hectic weekend I did not have time to work through all the entries, but after several all of which had the shiny black cloth background I was a bit disappointed. The mention of a turntable is not a bad idea, and if possible I would suggest erecting and testing the set-up the day before if possible.

    Don't see why a war games convention should be an issue, Salute has one of the better fantasy painting comps in the UK and that is a major war games event. And the general focus on smaller scale figures at such events does fit with the majority of CMoN submissions. (On a side note the World Expo was almost 50:50 between historic and fantasy figures at Girona in 2008 with a lot of smaller scale work).

    I would definitely suggest getting a judging team. I know you have already mentioned this, but from the competitions where I have judged I do think it is useful and it will cut down on the number of comments like the one above. There will always be some that disagree with a judging decision, but being able to point at 3 or 4 respected members of the hobby does give a measure of validity, and though I appreciate that you expect a majority of small scale fantasy/sci-fi figures, having someone from the historic side of the hobby and people who know more about some of the larger scale pieces would seem worthwhile if you allow those types of figures to be included in the competition.

    If you end up successful enough you may even need multiple teams later ... ...

  19. #19

    Default

    Well, all I gotta say is I'm going to be there next year with some stuff to compete for sure! For a first time it seems it went well, though I was extremely disappointed I could not make it this time (tough school year mixed with no money mixed with me not thinking I had the time to craft something worthy enough to compete). Anyways, the second time can only get better. I predict more painters will come, more competition and it will only get bigger and better.

  20. #20

    Default

    Originally Posted by fluffy
    I should really bite my tongue but I can't. To suggest that Mike picked Marike because she painted one of our figures is a load of rubbish and utterly insulting to both Marike and Mike...and Jakob because he painted a GW figure and Mike used to work for GW...ooh spooky coincidence. To say it casts a shadow over this years competition is also ridiculous and completely insulting.

    Chern-Meh, it's easy to criticize from a position of ignorance. Don't let it get your hackles up!
    I wanted to address this because I felt it necessary.

    @Fluffy and Chern... Whether you guys yourselves know or not whether there was bias involved in said judging, the issue is from the outside it can look that way, just like GD always has bias issues on "style" depending on the country you are in and of course the bias towards newly released miniatures and so on.

    To brush it off as simply an "ignorant" claim is quite frankly a shame, because it is a very serious claim, one that will attach itself to your competition for years to come if not addressed.

    Its not ignorant, its a perspective, it just happens to be one you disagree with.

    (By the way, I am not in defense of his view, Im just saying dont disregard it so quickly because you disagree with part of it)

    And as for the gaming event/miniature painting. Perhaps you should consider moving away from a wargames event. Maybe joining into another event, like a comic/toy/anime/video game convention. After all I believe it was you Chern who always discusses how GW should expand their IP's marketbase, perhaps you should expand your potential market by putting on a show in an "outside" event to garner "outside" attention?

    Just ideas.



    Quote Originally Posted by skeeve View Post
    No! Cash prizes need to be either meaningful or not at all. Anything less then 500$ is rather pointless. In the case of many miniature painter I should think that at the very least a prize should substantially offset travel cost. $50 would hardly do it, and frankly is somewhat insulting as most miniatures at the level of the third place could be sold for considerably more then that.
    First off, this is working from the $14,000 they had this year and with 12 categories, if there are fewer categories, or some dont "qualify" for a prize then more money!

    You dont think $4000 for the overall winner on top of $500(for first in category) and a prize pack is meaningful? Or $1500 for third overall +$500 and a prize pack?

    Or heck just $500 for finishing first in category? $500 would almost cover a flight from Canada to Chicago, and definetly would cover a flight from within the US to Chicago.

    Even second place's $150 would cover most flights within the US.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Privacy Policy  |   Terms and Conditions  |   Contact Us  |   The Legion


Copyright © 2001-2018 CMON Inc.

-->