need help on size W&N brushes + other hobby supplie
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Thread: need help on size W&N brushes + other hobby supplie

  1. #1

    Default need help on size W&N brushes + other hobby supplie

    I want to take my painting to the next level by buying a couple of new hobby supplies. I still have a few questions on what to buy.

    1.First of all, I'm buying W&N brushes but I'm not sure what sizes I should buy.

    2.I also wonder what brand of brush soap I should buy and whether there are any other products I should have to keep my brushes clean.

    3.Next I am buying greenstuff and milliputy. I am not sure what kind of milliput (will standard milliputt do the job?) I should buy though and are there any other sculpting putties I should try?

    any advice is welcome

  2. #2

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    1. Size 1 and/or Size 0 is enough for most work including small things like the eyes. Later for really fine freehand maybe a 2/0 or a 3/0 helps too.
    2. basically any, but if WnN why not a brush soap from them? it may cost more than other good ones, but it's there in the same order
    3. standard yellow is enough for things like Milliput washes and so. Other putties: I'd try procreate and FIMO (or basically any other putty to be baked), they are not needed but it's good to try them to see if they are better for you than GS/Milliput.

  3. #3
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    1: W&N really need to be "handpicked " so that you can look at the quality of the business end. I like them BUT I do make sure that the ones I get are suitable. Don't make a classic mistake and buy Miniature ones they are meant for Miniature Watercolour Landscapes and not that suitable for our needs.

    2: Brush Soap = Any good art supplier will have more than one type of Brush soap.... But in a push try DOVE hand soap.

    3: Putties, Green Stuff is a good starter , but Procreate, SuperSculpy and other putties are "better" than Miliput. I find that to be too rough to get a good shape. However look up the sticky threads at the top of the page there's dozens of topics about putties and how best to mix and use em.
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  4. #4

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    ok, thanks for your help. And thanks a lot for pointing out it's not the miniature ones you need, because was about to buy those lol. One more thing, you mean a size 000 by a 3/0 right?

  5. #5

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    Hi Wouter, size 000 does equal 3/0, had to learn that one myself recently

    My default for standard brushes was always a 1, a 0 and a 00 but better quality ones (and my trying to force myself to use sensible sized brushes so as to speed up a bit) mean I'd go for a 2 and a 1 first, 0 if budget allows. Last batch of eyes I painted were all with the W&N7 No. 1 and I only realised after I was done that I hadn't reached for a smaller brush!

    As DR said, do try and buy them in person (and support your local art supply store) so as to avoid getting a duff one. Check out some of the other brush querey threads too, a handful of other brands that people are very happy with and if they're available locally will be as well worth your time as W&N.

    Milliput standard (yellow-grey) is fine for trying it out. I've found the white (superfine) hard to use because I can't see what I'm doing and my pack of black is a bit spongey so I only use for basing and vast void filling for added weight, don't know if I got an old pack or if that's just the way it is though.

    Keep in mind you can blend your Milliput & GS together for different properties too (whiich would make the white easier to use). Also a Milliput slip can be used for fine surface finishing and is certainly a cheaper solution than GWs new Liquid Greenstuff.

    If your skin tends to be sensitive to these kinds of things do get some gloves. Milliput will stick to your hands whilst kneading in a way GS just doesn't

    Do you have any sculpting tools to push putty about with? A pack of cocktail sticks make for a good starting point

    Where are you based? Someone local may be able to chime in with sourcing help

    Have fun!

    Cheers, B.
    Last edited by BPI; 11-03-2011 at 02:29 PM.
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  6. #6

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    OK, I can't find any local craft shop where I live (Leuven, Belgium) so I thought I'dd order them via coolminiornot (if they ship to Belgium, I don't know where they are situated) or amazon. Does the quality really vary so much from brush to brush?

  7. #7

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    Experiences vary

    Last few brushes I've had have been gifts purchased by people who asked for them at the counter and then paid for them without looking. And they've been fine. Others have been less lucky. I guess you should just go for it.

    Does depend on brand though. Last time I checked in my local GW I couldn't find a standard brush that was fit to purchase. By time you get to the expensive end of W&N or the other brands I think the failure rate is a lot lower though.

    CMON is based in the US so you may find UK places cheaper? (not sure how Euro is doing against dollar currently). Certainly W&N are in the UK and have a website...

    http://www.winsornewton.com/index.aspx

    ...with various language options and lists of local stockists.

    Cheers, B.
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  8. #8

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    I think I'll just order them from CMON. Their prices are right and I really think I owe the company some support. They have done great things for this hobby (great forum, great gallerie, helpfull articles, crystalbrush etc). Shipping to europe with CMON is only 7 dollars by the way.
    Now I have one more question... Do you guys clean your brushes with a special brush soap or should regular handsoap do the job?

  9. #9

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    1. If you're not already aware of the issues with Series 7 brushes I would strongly recommend doing a search, and to see info on other brands you can try. On the Continent Raphaël, Escoda and daVinci brushes might be relatively easy to find, and they can be at least as good as Series 7s if not better.

    Ideal brush sizes depend on the person, there are also many prior threads on which sizes people prefer. Myself, I'd stick to synthetics for larger brushes (anything between 2 and maybe 6) for broader work, then get one or two 000s and 1s for finer work and detail painting.

    2. See my comments in this current thread.

    3. I would recommend MagicSculp over Milliput any day of the week for nearly any job (for numerous practical reasons, but it can also be much cheaper), if you're set on Milliput though then Silver-Grey is a good middle ground between Superfine White and the standard Grey-Green.

    For Kneadatite/GS I would recommend not getting any of the smaller packs where it's a ribbon, go instead for the large pack where the blue and the yellow come as two separate rolls. Here is the link to it on the CMON shop so you know what it looks like; that's a good price for it by the way.

    Einion

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
    OK, I can't find any local craft shop where I live (Leuven, Belgium) so I thought I'dd order them via coolminiornot (if they ship to Belgium, I don't know where they are situated) or amazon. Does the quality really vary so much from brush to brush?
    Meph is also from Leuven. You might try sending him a pm and see where he shops locally for his stuff.

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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhowl View Post
    Meph is also from Leuven. You might try sending him a pm and see where he shops locally for his stuff.
    Ditto! He may just pop in too. But if there's a hobby item to be found in Belgium, I have a feeling he knows where its at.

  12. #12

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    check out army painter wargammer detail brushes. very very nice and alot cheaper than W&N

  13. #13
    Senior Member Jbickley00's Avatar
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    Um getting top end brushes is not like getting magic wands-they won't transform your painting-only practice does that. Brushes, like paits are a personal preference. I use Windsor Newton series 7s and love them, they have beautiful points, carry paint well, and retain their shape with proper care. I also have some da vincis which are nice, and some dick blick sable brushes that were made by W&N but are cheaper. The point is, go with natural sable and figure out which brush is best for you (but don't listen to that army painter crap about syntheic brushes being better in larger sizes: if you can't control the flow of paint off your brush then it does not matter what type of brush you are using). This probably means you will buy several types and brands (even just to prove me wrong about army painter) before you settle on Brushes you like.
    Same is true of paints.
    As far as size, that is another bit of preference. I do most of my painting with a No. 2, and I rarely use a 3/0. A number 0 with a good point is enough to do eyes, on 15mm miniatures. I use both Windsor newton series 7 regular and "miniature" brushes. Start with the regular. The miniature brushes are intended for miniature paintings (as opposed to painting miniatures) and have smaller tips in the same size, so they carry less paint. The shorter bristle length does give a bit better control over the tip, so I use these for drawing lines. for basics I would think you need a 3/0, a 0, a 1, and a 2.

    "The Master's" brush soap is the best I have found.
    Stadard miliput should be fine. Greenstuff is a bit different than miliput. Green stuff is for sculpting, and miliput is for filling.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbickley00 View Post
    (but don't listen to that army painter crap about syntheic brushes being better in larger sizes.
    Can you be any more condescending? Funny, I read that nowhere above.

    A good brush does NOT make you a great painter like you said , so yes an army painter brush will work
    IF that's your bag. Natalya from CMON I believe uses 100% synthetics.

    The larger brushes being suggested to be used synthetic was probably based on
    Affordability more than anything. A 6 is stupid $ even at 50% msrp.

    Masters Soap is excellent choice.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbickley00 View Post
    ...some dick blick sable brushes that were made by W&N but are cheaper.
    Escoda last time I checked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbickley00 View Post
    (but don't listen to that army painter crap about syntheic brushes being better in larger sizes: if you can't control the flow of paint off your brush then it does not matter what type of brush you are using).
    I don't know what army painter (Army Painter?) say but I think synthetics are better in larger sizes and for larger sizes for the majority of painters in that the hooked-tip problem is less of an issue and there's less need of a fine point & the superior capillary action. Plus they're so much more affordable than Kolinsky - list price for a quality Kolinsky 2 is $20-35, versus maybe $6-9.

    At small sizes there's no comparison IMO, but still there are painters who use nothing but synthetics...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbickley00 View Post
    "The Master's" brush soap is the best I have found.
    Okay, so what have you compared it to?


    Quote Originally Posted by Icantpaint View Post
    Can you be any more condescending? Funny, I read that nowhere above.
    I didn't read that as condescending.

    Einion

  16. #16

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    I too use synthetics for larger sizes as I mainly basecoat with them. However for say 1/6 minis where I blend with larger size brushes I have a very expensive W&N series 7 (that I did buy on a sale). Synthetics tend to release the paint a bit more unevenly (at least the 3 or 4 types I've tried) which, depending on technique and what you're doing right there and then, can be frustrating.

    However you can get good results with practically all brushes. It's just less of an effort with good brushes.

  17. #17

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    [QUOTE=Dragonsreach;634569]1: Don't make a classic mistake and buy Miniature ones they are meant for Miniature Watercolour Landscapes and not that suitable for our needs.

    Just made this mistake, got one off eBay - was not listed as miniature :-(
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 ball View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsreach View Post
    1: Don't make a classic mistake and buy Miniature ones they are meant for Miniature Watercolour Landscapes and not that suitable for our needs.

    Just made this mistake, got one off eBay - was not listed as miniature :-(
    I've got a couple of miniature ones and love them for doing faces - in fact I keep one specifically for doing faces, teeth and small trinkets etc - just goes to show that everyone is different

    Have four new R&Co ones that I got for my birthday last month that I can't wait to use...

  19. #19
    Senior Member Jbickley00's Avatar
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    I was not being condescending. I was merely saying that in my experience, sable is better even at size 2,3, or 4. The army painter crap I was talking about is the idea that using a sable brush at a large size will cause you to flood you mini with paint. That is something that is perfectly within the control of the painter. frankly if I need anything larger than a 2, I am mostly using an airbrush anymore. But I have painted with Series 7 No. 4's and don't find they swamp my miniature.
    It is true that there are very good synthetics, and people paint with them, and they get new synthetics every few months. and buy brushes continually. Sable brushes overall are a better investment. And at blcik a series 7 number 2 is 12 bucks. Not unreasonable.

    And windsor newton does make a water colour sable that is "in partnership" with blick (on the blick site they are called W&N watercolor brushes). A number 2 in that brush is about 7 bucks. its product number06741-1002 (the short handled round number 2, and is Kolinsky).

    The miniature series 7's will work, they are good brushes, just not as good.

    I have tried the Da vinci and windsor and newton brush cleaners, as well as the Pink soap. None of these are bad, I just like "the masters" better.

    I'm not here trying to be condescending, I have just been doing this for close to 25 years, and I have spent a lot of money on stuff that was cheaper, or just as good. Or just not really worth it. I'm only offering my opinions because maybe people will avoid some pitfalls. I have just seen a lot of people bad mouth materials because thier expectations of what quality materials can do is too high. I have never said W&N brushes are the only way to go-just that I have never had an issue with them.

    Yes I think synethetics are garbage, and I have about $300 bucks worth of syntheitc brushes I have bought over the years to prove it. When I finally did try series & brushes (and a davinci or 2, I was like "why the fuck did I not do ths sooner." same with a wet palette, and with an air brush.

    In fair disclosure, I don't like army painter, and that has a lot to do with my personal experience with them and with thier products. They tend to repackage and remarket, and charge premium prices for stuff that can be purchased much cheaper. I don't like that. So yes I will bad mouth them all I want. If they did not release crap product, I would not take them to task. But if army painter materials work for you, then so be it. You are free to talk them up, just as I talk up my favorite brands.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbickley00 View Post
    The army painter crap I was talking about is the idea that using a sable brush at a large size will cause you to flood you mini with paint.
    Roger, that's user error, not the fault of the brush.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbickley00 View Post
    It is true that there are very good synthetics, and people paint with them, and they get new synthetics every few months. and buy brushes continually.
    I don't know what people are doing with their brushes that this might be necessary but that's not inherent to the brush type - I think I still have every synthetic I've bought, as an adult at least, since not one of them has ever completely fallen apart on me.

    I have two Dalon flats that I've used and abused (I'd list the paints they've seen, what they've had done to them but you'd think I was exaggerating). Point is, they've gotta be 20-25 years old and they're still going strong...

    Einion

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