Games Day and Golden Demon 2012 Chicago July, 28th! - Page 2
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Thread: Games Day and Golden Demon 2012 Chicago July, 28th!

  1. #21

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    I would just like to toss in a few thoughts here about Armies on Parade. If you had seen the top 15 entires or so, you would have seen massive amounts of conversion, basing, nice to elaborate display boards, all things that required a whole lot of hours. My Lizardman army of last year took thousands of hours to complete. I am not quite sure how that work and effort is completely invalid compared to a slayer sword. At least 4 of my units in that army won various demon awards.

    I have spent even more time on my new Tomb Kings army. It is not only for AOP, but it is for Adepticon, and for me to play with my buddies. Again, I am not quite sure how that is a negative thing...

    There are other categories of Demons, such as squad or regiment, that have nothing to do with a slayer sword. Is it not as interesting to see who can paint 10 miniatures to the exact same standard... or 20, or 50, or 200?

    I am sorry if I sound cranky here... it's just that I have been up almost all night every night for the past week trying to get the army ready for the qualifier event. That makes me a bit sensitive when that effort gets dismissed so easily. :-) The way I see it, it was high time that people got credit for painting an army to a Demon standard, writing fluff, making detailed army boards, etc.

    Last year, I even took 3-4 entries from the Golden Demons to put in AOP, since that matters more to me.

    Again, I am not trying to go to war over this :-) You can look at Dave Taylor's blog as well as mine to see how seriously AOP is being taken. I know several people in my own area who have made tremendous efforts to paint their armies just to have a shot. That leaves our community with lots of cool painted armiues to play with! Yes! :-)

  2. #22

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    I'll be there. Looking forward to seeing my painter friends. Hey, Brice! See you there!
    I may actually have something finished for this year.

  3. #23

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    @ celthulhu .... get it done I want to see it.


    @ wappellious .... I love the armies on parade. I must have looked at you lizardemen for at least 20 minutes. Between yours and Dave's army I think that you could have won more demons with your entries. Dave's land ship was as good as the ones that won a trophy.
    You guys are the real painters and my hat is off to you!


    there were some other fantastic armies there so don't think that there weren't other fantastic armies. I love all the conversions and work that goes into them

  4. #24
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    I agree, James, Dave, and all of the others who spend many hours, thousands, to get their armies done are very impressive. And a new one each year? Wow. I do not have that ability. I am lucky to get 10 minis painted a year. But I enjoy doing a unit for GD, it is a big challenge, but a shame the category gets overlooked a great deal. I am looking forward to seeing what comes out at AoP, as I have always loved fully converted armies. Which is why I like the work of Dave and James, and many others who I only know by 'Net handles.

  5. #25

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    I don't think anyone's doubting the skill and effort that goes into painting an entire army - it's just that AOP gets more love and attention because it means you've bought hundreds, if not thousands of dollars of their product. An open entry may have nothing more than a name (in the case of a full sculpt). While this makes a lot of sense from the company standpoint, it's a bit of dissapointment for those unwilling or unable to purchase and or paint an entire army.
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  6. #26

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    All these man hours into the hobby for an event where our awards are cookie cutter low end swords, drybrushed shittacular resin trophies (which the nameplates don't even stay on half of mine), plaques and whatever other cheap nonsense they want to give us. I may be competing in GD this year just to finish a couple things on my table and it's fun, but Crystal Brush blew my mind when they offer an actual AWARD for those thousands of hours of work we put in. GD gives you garbage and then entices you to buy more of their overpriced junk. The models are getting progressively worse for painters (sculpted banners and details on EVERYTHING? Really???? and I went through three boxes of Mangler Squigs before giving up because I was told that the crappy ones I had were the best I was going to get - thanks shitecast!), and with the scrapping of the demon lounge for such a garbage reason really soured me. The new "gamer-friendly" paints that are too gimmicky and the tiny amounts you get in them for the price are just ridiculous...
    I do love competing, which is why I may end up finishing an entry or two, but this may be one of the last years I compete in GD (at least here in the US)...

    Anyways, James, in no way are your skills with army building and painting doubted - you and Dave and others have really taken AOP to a level people probably thought it never would (but what can you expect from demon winners!). Anyways - to me it's just a shift in the company to promote armies rather than single figs. If you are like me, who pours everything into one model, then that's a big turnoff and makes me look for other outlets for my hobby and art. Like, why would I want another Slayer Sword? It would look exactly the same as the one I have now - no date inscribed on it or anything... no difference. It's not a worthy award for winning such a competitive competition in my eyes and is more like a slap in the face. You can't spend an extra few hundred bucks to buy a unique sword for a ONCE a year event?
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  7. #27
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    Elly, you've made great points. It used to be the big event of the year, for several years not only did they do different styles of swords, but different types of weapons. But now only the UK Sword looks to be different/special. Which sucks. Now other competitions are stepping up, and offering cash. The only reason I enjoy GD is the other painters, and the fact that it is what got me into the hobby.

    And taking away teh Lounge? Seriously? It seemed like a lot of folks wer elooking forward to that last year, I did, and I had a great time. Lots of people did. Why take it away? Why not just come out and give specific rules to the guys who are displaying minis, then leave it at that. Instead, no warning, just kill it. It's a good day I do not employ that tactic with my neighbors or their kids.

  8. #28

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    He he... I have said many times that my obsession for junky resin trophies is bad for my health! :-) I had to make my own nameplate for the AoP trophy. The two page spread in the White Dwarf did make me really happy though, considering how it is just a giant advertisement.

    When it comes down to it, what those things symbolize is way more important than the actual trophy. I always liked Adepticon's medals for the Rogue Demons, since they were very different each year, like Olympic medals. I also loved the prize suppourt, which I have used since 2007 to do most of my miniature painting. A good chunk of my last 2 armies were made with free stuff from the old Adepticon painting contests, and Best Painted army awards.

    We have a number of local folks here who create amazing armies for Adepticon (and other big tournaments). They are also very talented players. Cathy and I were so amazed at what we saw in the tournament rooms between rounds that first year at Adepticon in 2007. It was like walking through a wide open gallery :-) It is the reason we paint armies ourselves.

    The challenge of creating the entire army is also very compelling. My Lizard army was less than $200 in total. Most figures were bought used from ebay or at Bizzare Bazaars. Taking those pieces of junk and making them into a winning army was a blast! I also scratch sculpted a huge part of the army. WHat I learned making that army transformed the way I sculpted, painted, etc.

    The Temple army board was also made to be a playable piece of terrain. We played two campaigns on it, and that was tons of fun! I think I even have some images of that on the blog.

    Anyway, I look forward to seeing everyone there... or I should say that you will see me running around like a maniac all day! :-) If you see a White Sox jersey and a Union Civil War hat fly past you... that's me!

  9. #29

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    I really believe that Armies on Parade will become the next "Slayer Sword", and that Golden Demon in the United States might lose a little bit of it's "magic"

    But I am still excited for Golden Demon this year, I really feel if I can finish my diorama in time for GD Chicago (almost 100% sure I will), I will have a good shot of achieving something higher than a finalist pin. But I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch (I've seen some amazing pieces not place in GD). seeing as I am a fairly new painter to this Competition, and am still searching for my first Demon, the competition, to somebody like me Golden Demon has still importance.

    If anyone has time, I would really appreciate any C&C's towards my diorama. Here's a link

    http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/...GD-WIP-S/page2

    And I hope to meet a lot of you fellow painters this year, and hopefully get tips and get my questions answered. But wait, there's no Demon Lounge this year! Maybe we can make a diy demon lounge, brings some name cards, a table or 2, and what you all are working on this year!

    Anywho, I hope everybody has a great time this year at GD, and maybe can enjoy themselves more than other years! See You There

  10. #30

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    It's a shame that the lounge will not take place this year. As a competitive painter, I've looked forward to going to GD just for the lounge to pick everyone's brain about how to do certain techniques better. I mean it's all possible through the net and all, but nothing beats a face to face talk and discussion. I hope to meet all the great painters while at the convention this year and still pic your brains about techniques

    As for GW shifting towards the AOP, I think that GW has been shifting away from the smaller units towards the more expensive boxed products like tanks and flyers and big unit sizes and all as a business standpoint. It causes us to spend more money. They go from infantry units to mech units and back again with every edition that comes out which forces us to buy their product in order to play and compete properly. As for us painters who don't play the game as much, it shouldn't really matter how the game rules change as we won't be needing to buy new full armies to compete, but they're just so cool that we can't resist buying them to paint them for the competition. Shifting to AOP was inevitable as GW has been pushing for bigger things a few editions ago. It helps create more buzz around the gaming community and making people want to buy more of their product to enter at a chance to display it at GD or even to just simply build an army like the one they saw. I mean, I for one would love to build an army like James or Dave's because it's simply amazing (even though I can't seem to finish one damn unit LOL).

    As for the participants who enter in AOP, HUGE props to them. It's one thing to pull off a model here and there, maybe a unit to look amazing to win a demon, but an entire army that flows in unison....that's just tremendous! I mean, nothing to take away from demon winners and all, but the time spent on an army is far superior IMO than a normal demon entry.

    Also, never been to a crystal brush, but would love to try my hand at it one year.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofEdoras View Post

    If anyone has time, I would really appreciate any C&C's towards my diorama. Here's a link
    ....
    You haven't updated in 2 months! We cannot critique what we cannot see. I will say that what you had 2 months ago looked pretty slick from the photos, but some close ups are needed.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wappellious View Post
    I would just like to toss in a few thoughts here about Armies on Parade. If you had seen the top 15 entires or so, you would have seen massive amounts of conversion, basing, nice to elaborate display boards, all things that required a whole lot of hours. My Lizardman army of last year took thousands of hours to complete. I am not quite sure how that work and effort is completely invalid compared to a slayer sword.

    I am sorry if I sound cranky here... it's just that I have been up almost all night every night for the past week trying to get the army ready for the qualifier event. That makes me a bit sensitive when that effort gets dismissed so easily. :-) The way I see it, it was high time that people got credit for painting an army to a Demon standard, writing fluff, making detailed army boards, etc.

    Last year, I even took 3-4 entries from the Golden Demons to put in AOP, since that matters more to me.

    Again, I am not trying to go to war over this.
    Nope not my intention to go to war on this at all James, in fact your work is well recognised as extreme top end quality and I seriously respect the amount of work, detail and effort you do in ALL your painting.
    What I am (to use the only word that fits) is disgusted that GW is using Armies On Parade as a blatent advertising stunt that's actually cost a customer to create. (*)
    I'll grant you that you have managed to buy the contents of your army at the most sensible way possible, but remember that when GW are using/pushing this in store it's little Timmy's being told to buy direct from them.

    GW's business is not supporting a Hobby, it's selling Toy Soldiers.
    Therefore anything that detracts from the GW methodology of cash generation isn't going to get supported. So it stands to reason that the USA (being the only place to have ever had a Deamon Lounge) has had that feature dropped. Why, because GW are not going to fund space which isn't going to be immediately cash generating or heaven forbid costing them money.
    For those of you who've visited the Deamon Lounges at previous Games Day's how much did you interact with the other aspects of Gamesday or spend at the GW/Forgeworld sales?
    Did you just sit and talk to other painters or were you parting with your cash into GW's coffers?
    As a business expense GamesDay (or a single event equivilent) is a huge risk for any company, it has to make a profit and not just break even. If you look back a few years the Conflict Tournaments/Competitions were extermely popular (in the UK) but the last one I know of didn't break even, coming in with a loss. So now Conflict as a show doesn't exist.


    (*Although from a cost economics viewpoint its quite clever costing GW very little if anything at all)
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  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elly3438 View Post
    All these man hours into the hobby for an event where our awards are cookie cutter low end swords, drybrushed shittacular resin trophies (which the nameplates don't even stay on half of mine), plaques and whatever other cheap nonsense they want to give us. I may be competing in GD this year just to finish a couple things on my table and it's fun, but Crystal Brush blew my mind when they offer an actual AWARD for those thousands of hours of work we put in. GD gives you garbage and then entices you to buy more of their overpriced junk. The models are getting progressively worse for painters (sculpted banners and details on EVERYTHING? Really???? and I went through three boxes of Mangler Squigs before giving up because I was told that the crappy ones I had were the best I was going to get - thanks shitecast!), and with the scrapping of the demon lounge for such a garbage reason really soured me. The new "gamer-friendly" paints that are too gimmicky and the tiny amounts you get in them for the price are just ridiculous...
    I do love competing, which is why I may end up finishing an entry or two, but this may be one of the last years I compete in GD (at least here in the US)...

    Anyways, James, in no way are your skills with army building and painting doubted - you and Dave and others have really taken AOP to a level people probably thought it never would (but what can you expect from demon winners!). Anyways - to me it's just a shift in the company to promote armies rather than single figs. If you are like me, who pours everything into one model, then that's a big turnoff and makes me look for other outlets for my hobby and art. Like, why would I want another Slayer Sword? It would look exactly the same as the one I have now - no date inscribed on it or anything... no difference. It's not a worthy award for winning such a competitive competition in my eyes and is more like a slap in the face. You can't spend an extra few hundred bucks to buy a unique sword for a ONCE a year event?
    Quote Originally Posted by MightyChad View Post
    Elly, you've made great points. It used to be the big event of the year, for several years not only did they do different styles of swords, but different types of weapons. But now only the UK Sword looks to be different/special. Which sucks. Now other competitions are stepping up, and offering cash. The only reason I enjoy GD is the other painters, and the fact that it is what got me into the hobby.

    And taking away teh Lounge? Seriously? It seemed like a lot of folks wer elooking forward to that last year, I did, and I had a great time. Lots of people did. Why take it away? Why not just come out and give specific rules to the guys who are displaying minis, then leave it at that. Instead, no warning, just kill it. It's a good day I do not employ that tactic with my neighbors or their kids.
    No Lounge??? But that's a MAJOR reason why I wanted to attend. I even picked up a part-time job to help with expenses to go to GD. Well, I'm still going, still going to enter something simply for the experience since I've never done it before.

    Jeff - YOU SO NEED TO COME TO REAPERCON!!!! The focus and attitudes - you will love it! They may not have big huge prizes for winning, the medals are very nice, the Sophie trophies decent enough but its talking to the artists that is fantastic.

    I'm sad to hear you won't be entering (I was soooo looking forward to seeing that War Sphinx) but could I ask a favor? If its not too much trouble would you mind bringing one of your minis? I really want to see some of your work in person if at all possible.

    But I completely understand the reasoning and really share the frustrations voiced here. What's next GW? We can barely paint the Failcast. But it seems painting isn't important anymore. So what is GW going to do...disband the 'eavy Metal team????

    PS - I hope the hotel has a bar. If I have to stake a claim and post a sign I'll make an impromptu Lounge! Bring some minis, kick back with your favorite beverage and enjoy...now that would be fun!
    Last edited by kathrynloch; 06-29-2012 at 06:33 AM.

  14. #34

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    Jeff, not many people can even win one sword let alone 2. I know that you can do it and if you don't want a second sword I sure several people would be happy to take it off your hands LOL. personally i like the style of the one that they are making right now. There have been some swords that were really not my favorite so I like the current design they have.

    No lounge is a bummer. It is one of my favorite parts because I get to meet all you guys and look at lost of cool models up close and just hang out.

    The lounge really did not cost GW much if anything. We would set up in an area that was already rented. Pull some tables and chairs that were already set up in the parents lounge. GW would donate models, paints, brushes etc for demo purposes. And we would use a couple of display cases that they brought with them. So cost is not a good argument. They just have a new manager and he felt that everything we were doing at the lounge did not promote GW 100%. If they are paying that much for an event which is designed to promote their product then it is understandable that they would feel that way.

    Hopefully they will get enough comments/questions from people asking where the Demon lounge is and why don't they have it this year HINT HINT (tell all your friends too), that we could be invited back next year. If they would lay out exactly what is allowed then we would follow their guidelines.

    Certainly GW does not do everything the way I would like them to, but I still like the background, I love to convert and paint models, and I like to hang out with my fellow painters. I plan on having a great time because I get to hang out with you guys, see some great models and enter mine hoping to break the dry spell .

  15. #35

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    Cathy and I would love to go to Reapercon (love Reaper minis!), but that is not possible with Adepticon being so close in the timeline. :-(

    I don't know if you have to worry about AoP taking over Games Day. At the qualifier yesterday, nobody in the store realy cared. It was 99.999999999999999999999999% about 6th edition. One of the stores in the area had employees who never heard of it, and another store actually charged people to participate! So, the $20 ticket or whatever it was could be more than made up for by all the $25 gift cards folks would have to buy.

    One of my buddies who competes with me very closely for Best Painted and past AoP's simply left the store in disgust, and did not even set up his army. There was only 1 other army at my store, which used to be the biggest in North America. Part of that had to do with the 'diaspora' of painters who try not to get in each other's way, but it was very sad.

  16. #36

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    Kathryn the GD is in a convention center and the closest bar is across the street, if I'm not mistaken. Now if they run the show in the same hall that they did last year (hopefully it's the biggest, and the others are to small or not the right size) there is not a lot of chairs in the 'food court'. Maybe we could raid one of the meeting halls upstairs if they use those this time? Or maybe everyone brings a camp chair and hangs out in the front lobby!
    "Yes, yes, yes. Woman are in awe of his manhood and men swoon in his wake. Truly he is a legend in his own mind."

  17. #37

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    camp chairs that is a great idea

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by mud duck View Post
    Kathryn the GD is in a convention center and the closest bar is across the street, if I'm not mistaken. Now if they run the show in the same hall that they did last year (hopefully it's the biggest, and the others are to small or not the right size) there is not a lot of chairs in the 'food court'. Maybe we could raid one of the meeting halls upstairs if they use those this time? Or maybe everyone brings a camp chair and hangs out in the front lobby!
    Now that sounds like a great plan! I'm in! It will be fun.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocanour View Post
    Certainly GW does not do everything the way I would like them to, but I still like the background, I love to convert and paint models, and I like to hang out with my fellow painters. I plan on having a great time because I get to hang out with you guys, see some great models and enter mine hoping to break the dry spell .
    Agree totally. I don't have much time to paint anymore, and when I do my first choice isn't necessarily a GW mini, but it's still a great chance to get together with a bunch of fellow painters and have a great weekend. And the competition is still fun, if I can somehow manage to get my entry finished.

    Although I'd have to agree with Elly that the motivation to spend a ton of time on GD entries decreases exponentially if you've already had some success. Once you've won a couple trophies, the only thing left is to chase a sword, which just isn't possible for everyone. And as you get older the amount of time invested just doesn't seem worth the payout.

    And Kath, you can definitely count me in for any plan which involves painting AND beer! Woohoo!

  20. #40

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    As a note to all:

    I do recommend bringing a small folding chair if possible. The line to get in starts some 3 or 4 hours before the fun starts, and it is a great time to get to know your fellow gamers/painters/monkeys, but the floor is hard and standing that long in one place kinda suxors! Oh, and last year some group had a bag check set up and hopefully they'll have it again! But be warned good things for some reason are not always carried year to year.

    Things to bring if you have the room:
    Cash, for it is KING! For the food court (I can't remember if they take cards), or the "Opps! I forgot the Karloc Green." moment. I think that there was a cash only line in the store, and at times that may save you a mess of waiting!
    Cigs, The cost of a pack of smoke in the area is quite high, and that's if you can find a shop open and close.
    water, a lite snack, gum, etc. The food at the court is 'good' but expensive (they've got you by the short and curlyies and know it), plus lines, and somewhat limited seating. And WAAAAAGGGHHHH!!! ing every couple of minutes or so, water is a must. A refillable container (smaller one soda bottle sized) may be the way to go, as I going to guess that they may frown on someone bringing the cool in.
    comfortable shoes! Unpadded concrete floors in the hall, lots of walking around looking at stuff (multiple building levels).

    Note to Parents. If you are just there to herd the kids around and sit in a corner reading a book, Earplugs. It's very loud in the center and only spikes louder, so in order to maintain one sanity and spot in reading, earplugs.

    Anyone have any more?
    Last edited by mud duck; 07-06-2012 at 04:56 PM.
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