Final highlights/shadows with oil paint
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Thread: Final highlights/shadows with oil paint

  1. #1

    Question Final highlights/shadows with oil paint

    I have been exploring oil painting since few months with the help of the forum. I have completed a miniature completely to get use to the medium. I was quite happy with the results and realized constraints/advantages of such medium.
    Now I am trying to apply it to some almost finished mini to bring more highlights, mid tones and shadows adjustments without being chalky or having too much contrast. Using oil on acrylics can be quite fast ans easy. For this example I have used it on my ogre skin, first success is that I have been able to reproduce my ogre skin acrylic color without big difficulties with the oil I had.

    So I have taken some pictures to get some further tips and suggestions from people using the same technique. So how can I improve from your point of view?

    On the right side of the ogre I used oil on the left not.
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    This side with oil
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    This side without
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    And here the palette I am using, any suggestions?
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  2. #2

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    I will be following this with great interest, as I would like to use oils in shading as well. My biggest barrier right now is the need to clear coat when switching between acrylics and oils. And I don't even know if that's really necessary.
    Proud owner of a Cassar!

    #1378/9460
    You are ranked 1351 out of 9441 artists.



  3. #3

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    From what I have understood, you can put oil on top of acrylics without any problem if you are not using solvent in the hard way...
    If you want to add acrylics on top of oil, you will have to use acrylic matt varnish applied with airbrush after the oils are dry (+24h/48h or even longer if cold weather).
    That's what I got, as others on the forum suggesting to use oil, I am doing the same, I suggest you to try / use it especially with highlights when you know you can get chalky, with less effort you can get similar or even better effect.
    On my side I try to put some mid tones, like greenish/purplish on my skin tones... Have to improve on that, for that Ogre I will also try to do the trousers the same way, and the face!

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by boubi View Post
    From what I have understood, you can put oil on top of acrylics without any problem if you are not using solvent in the hard way...
    If you want to add acrylics on top of oil, you will have to use acrylic matt varnish applied with airbrush after the oils are dry (+24h/48h or even longer if cold weather).
    That's what I got, as others on the forum suggesting to use oil, I am doing the same, I suggest you to try / use it especially with highlights when you know you can get chalky, with less effort you can get similar or even better effect.
    On my side I try to put some mid tones, like greenish/purplish on my skin tones... Have to improve on that, for that Ogre I will also try to do the trousers the same way, and the face!
    Thats really to short a drying time, although it depends on pigment I like at least 3 days at 70F and up to a week for some of the other colors, thats just the nature of the beast.

    To the Op, off to a great start my only suggestions are this, first try not to overblend, ideally you want to really only feather the edges of the highlight, this can take practice. Second you need to watch how much paint you are putting on and make sure it doesn't form clumps on the model, I can see 2 of them on the shoulder where the oil paint wasn't properly blended in. Other then that great start and don't be afraid to really push the contrast, remember what looks crazy hippie contrast wet will be subtle dry.

    More help for you later, right now the screen is blury from lack of sleep.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by boubi
    For this example I have used it on my ogre skin, first success is that I have been able to reproduce my ogre skin acrylic color without big difficulties with the oil I had.
    Great job on this The colour matching is one of the major stumbling blocks going for seamless highlight and shadow touches using a different medium; I can assure you, many painters would struggle to do as well!

    Quote Originally Posted by boubi
    So how can I improve from your point of view?
    I think the highlights should be taken further. Shadows look fine to me, but you could go darker in just a few key spots for maximum tonal variation.

    Quote Originally Posted by boubi
    And here the palette I am using, any suggestions?
    In terms of the palette of colours you're using, if you're getting the results you want that's what's important. I would suggest you put out less paint since oil paint goes so far, and of course there's zero risk of it drying on the palette so you don't have to put out any excess like you might working with acrylics (when not using a stay-wet palette).


    Quote Originally Posted by TrystanGST
    My biggest barrier right now is the need to clear coat when switching between acrylics and oils. And I don't even know if that's really necessary.
    Good news then, you don't need to clearcoat acrylic-type paints to apply oils on top*. If you want to do the reverse it's not absolutely necessary either, although it could well be helpful (depends on how the oils dry as well as additives in the acrylics).

    *People do this partly for security, partly where the 'open' surface of the acrylic paint will hinder a specific technique they want to do with the oils, but for basic work definitely try the oil paint applied straight on top and see how it goes.

    Einion

  6. #6

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    Thanks Einion. I'll have to give it a go this weekend and see what happens.
    Proud owner of a Cassar!

    #1378/9460
    You are ranked 1351 out of 9441 artists.



  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Einion View Post
    I think the highlights should be taken further. Shadows look fine to me, but you could go darker in just a few key spots for maximum tonal variation.


    In terms of the palette of colours you're using, if you're getting the results you want that's what's important. I would suggest you put out less paint since oil paint goes so far, and of course there's zero risk of it drying on the palette so you don't have to put out any excess like you might working with acrylics (when not using a stay-wet palette).

    Good news then, you don't need to clearcoat acrylic-type paints to apply oils on top*. If you want to do the reverse it's not absolutely necessary either, although it could well be helpful (depends on how the oils dry as well as additives in the acrylics).

    *People do this partly for security, partly where the 'open' surface of the acrylic paint will hinder a specific technique they want to do with the oils, but for basic work definitely try the oil paint applied straight on top and see how it goes.

    Einion
    Thank you Einion, I have put more highlights later on, see below pictures. For the amount of paint I took it directly from the tubes, that's true it is too much, so small amount is required!
    I try to improve the technique and blending. I have put some mid tones on the trousers and in my NMM, is it something which makes sense compared than acrylics? I have foudn that using a type of dry (oily) brushing in the mid-tones add a slight coloration which is quite interesting, is it something usually done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat85 View Post
    Thats really to short a drying time, although it depends on pigment I like at least 3 days at 70F and up to a week for some of the other colors, thats just the nature of the beast.

    To the Op, off to a great start my only suggestions are this, first try not to overblend, ideally you want to really only feather the edges of the highlight, this can take practice. Second you need to watch how much paint you are putting on and make sure it doesn't form clumps on the model, I can see 2 of them on the shoulder where the oil paint wasn't properly blended in. Other then that great start and don't be afraid to really push the contrast, remember what looks crazy hippie contrast wet will be subtle dry.

    More help for you later, right now the screen is blury from lack of sleep.
    Thank you Wombat, I normally let it dry longer. I have many projects going on so I have time to let it dry before applying varnish or another layer.
    Actually there is no clumps, I think it is on the model itself, maybe bad cleaning. I used a so small amount of paint on my brush that it cannot form clumps.
    I would like to have more definition about what you call overblend? I have the impression I am overblending then it looks like dull with lighter color a bit everywhere. I also have the impression that when it gets dry the blending is much better, there is more subtle change, is it possible that blending improved during drying? So should I do slightly harder transition which will improve during drying?
    But it is true that this glossy effect while painting is really disturbing while painting, distracting your eyes from your real shadows and highlights.


    So here the nest steps I have done on my ogre experiment, they are close ups and looks quite hard:
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    Almost all the parts of the ogres where modified, even the NMM on the blade and cannon. I have added mid-tones like on the trousers and seems to work quite well, faster and even better than acrylics??? Maybe I am not using the best technique for acrylics.

    One more question: Should I use black in my mix? I didn't try afraid to "spoil" my current mix, but I used Burnt Umber from Rembrandt which I found less good than Winsor and Newton, bigger pigment? harder to mix? and less smooth? did you use this brand?

    Thanks for your help!
    Last edited by boubi; 02-23-2013 at 02:20 AM. Reason: remove one picture

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by boubi
    I have put some mid tones on the trousers and in my NMM, is it something which makes sense compared than acrylics? I have foudn that using a type of dry (oily) brushing in the mid-tones add a slight coloration which is quite interesting, is it something usually done?
    Don't know that this is commonly done but that doesn't matter, if you like the results go for it. There are many ways to use oils to enhance the work already done in acrylics, pretty much limited only by our imagination - you can tint/colourise, apply the final shading touches, add sheen, smooth graduations, add texture, paint patterns or decorations, do weathering of many different kinds.

    Quote Originally Posted by boubi
    I have added mid-tones like on the trousers and seems to work quite well, faster and even better than acrylics??? Maybe I am not using the best technique for acrylics.
    Acrylics are a relatively slow medium to work with when it comes to achieving smooth grads, unless you use wet blending.

    Quote Originally Posted by boubi
    One more question: Should I use black in my mix? I didn't try afraid to "spoil" my current mix, but I used Burnt Umber from Rembrandt which I found less good than Winsor and Newton, bigger pigment? harder to mix? and less smooth? did you use this brand?
    If you're worried that you might spoil your current mix then pull a little of it off to one side and add in the tiniest amounts of black you can manage until you see a noticeable colour change, then compare.

    Just generally, there's no reason not to use black although it is easy to overdo its use. If you're using it primarily to make a mix duller one 'secret' is not to mix it in straight, add it as a tint or as part of a mixed neutral grey (in both cases the grey should be the same value as the colour you're blending with).

    About the two Burnt Umbers, lots of colours exhibit slight variations from maker to maker but earths in particular can vary a large amount in colouration, beyond the expected differences in paints that come from one brand or the next. Use whichever you like the most; down the line you might find you have a use for both types, just for different things.

    Einion

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