I hate LEs and I'm tempted to do something about it.
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Thread: I hate LEs and I'm tempted to do something about it.

  1. #1

    Default I hate LEs and I'm tempted to do something about it.

    So I keep getting 2 different stories about the season 1 LEs. I've been told they will not be available ever. But yesterday I got an email from CMON saying they would be available in limited quantities at conventions. I find LEs very retailer unfriendly and very unfriendly to peole who purchased season 1 from their local retailers (such as myself). If they never make these models available again I am almost certainly going to do something about it. I have a lot of experience makeing model molds from RTV silicone and casting models in resin with them. What I'll have to do is purchase these models through a secondary market and make molds of each to cast my own, and then resell the original models to recoup my money. I will also give away copies to any of my friends. I'm not sure what the rules are for the copy right since these models wouldn't be in production for sale, and I wouldn't be charging for the models. But at this point I really don't care, since CMOT or GG or both don't really care about anyone not funding their KS projects.

  2. #2

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    I`m not too fond of "limited edition" models myself. However, thats the way it goes. Producers need something to make kickstarters special since funders have a higher risk and part with their money earlier.
    Casting and giving it away like you said is just rude (and might be illegal). If you can get them from ebay, why not keep and use them?

    Working for a publishing house that struggles in the times of pirated e-books, I have some VERY unkind words prepared for people who commit this kind of theft.....
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  3. #3

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    Whatever stock is left over from the KS campaign will be available at conventions until the run out. You're far from the only person who feels left out over the promo minis. But GG has said they intend to keep those minis out of production, so if you can't get them via ebay/conventions, you'll just have to do without. Zombicide is far from the only KS to have exclusive minis, just the one getting the most flack over it right now, since the game is wildly popular and for some reason people feel they need those minis to play (even though you can get all the character stats and equipment free from their site).
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuar56 View Post
    So I keep getting 2 different stories about the season 1 LEs. I've been told they will not be available ever. But yesterday I got an email from CMON saying they would be available in limited quantities at conventions. I find LEs very retailer unfriendly and very unfriendly to peole who purchased season 1 from their local retailers (such as myself). If they never make these models available again I am almost certainly going to do something about it. I have a lot of experience makeing model molds from RTV silicone and casting models in resin with them. What I'll have to do is purchase these models through a secondary market and make molds of each to cast my own, and then resell the original models to recoup my money. I will also give away copies to any of my friends. I'm not sure what the rules are for the copy right since these models wouldn't be in production for sale, and I wouldn't be charging for the models. But at this point I really don't care, since CMOT or GG or both don't really care about anyone not funding their KS projects.
    hey josh settle down man. those limited edition models were designed to attract people to the first kickstarter and it worked. i got in on the first one and grabbed those models because they said "these models will only be available as a kickstarter exclusive and will not be available after that time" GG didn't hide that statement, were quite vocal about it, and i find it very refreshing that they are sticking to their guns about it, as integrity is something that isn't found in abundance nowadays. if you don't want to miss out a second time perhaps get behind the season 2 kickstarter and support a business that delivers on what they say they will do. but perhaps tone down the "copyright infringement resell angle" because it's kind of a douche move.

  5. #5

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    Seems like an odd complaint to me. So you missed out on the LE minis during the kickstarter? Get over it, people. There were several minis for the Sedition Wars KS that I didn't get and am now kicking myself for missing, but it's my problem and my own fault. I certainly don't blame CMoN for not making them available later. It seems a bit childish to just spit the dummy and start recasting. Apart from anything else, whether they're available for sale or not, CMoN owns the designs of those sculpts, so if you start recasting them you'll get nabbed for IP infringement or somesuch. It's not like I can start recasting old rogue trader era minis from GW and claim "well, they're oop, so it's not like people could buy them anyway."
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by me_in_japan View Post
    Seems like an odd complaint to me. So you missed out on the LE minis during the kickstarter? Get over it, people. There were several minis for the Sedition Wars KS that I didn't get and am now kicking myself for missing, but it's my problem and my own fault. I certainly don't blame CMoN for not making them available later. It seems a bit childish to just spit the dummy and start recasting. Apart from anything else, whether they're available for sale or not, CMoN owns the designs of those sculpts, so if you start recasting them you'll get nabbed for IP infringement or somesuch. It's not like I can start recasting old rogue trader era minis from GW and claim "well, they're oop, so it's not like people could buy them anyway."
    nail on the head!

  7. #7

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    Hmm. I think CMON would be more in trouble from the media companies "owning" these characters than you from CMON making copies for your own purposes. Furthermore, I don't think there's any stopping anyone who wants to produce celebrity survivor mini's that could be used in Zombicide! Impact Miniatures has already released their Big Lebowski miniatures line. Backers want LE figures, so CMON makes them. I do think anyone speculating on these figures to be as $$$ as S1 figures will be disappointed. You might also want to mention to buyers that you have already opened the package and cast molds from the figures. If you passed them off as "mint", THEN you would be in trouble!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Niranth's Avatar
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    Default

    These minis are a parody of the IP and were hand sculpted. Copying them is much different and is not legal for even your own use. But I do not understand why have that particular shape is so important. There are lots of minis available to use instead. Here is a list that is complete - Season 1 Proxies
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by terroroy View Post
    hey josh settle down man. those limited edition models were designed to attract people to the first kickstarter and it worked. i got in on the first one and grabbed those models because they said "these models will only be available as a kickstarter exclusive and will not be available after that time" GG didn't hide that statement, were quite vocal about it, and i find it very refreshing that they are sticking to their guns about it, as integrity is something that isn't found in abundance nowadays. if you don't want to miss out a second time perhaps get behind the season 2 kickstarter and support a business that delivers on what they say they will do. but perhaps tone down the "copyright infringement resell angle" because it's kind of a douche move.
    My move is kind of a douche move, but GG's isn't? You say you are being rewarded for supporting them, but how many copies did you buy? Now how many copies do you think a retailer buys and resells? Who do you think takes more risk, you backing a KS, or a retailer paying all the overhead and risk of starting and running a brick and mortar business?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Niranth's Avatar
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    Joshua56, no I do not think that GG's move is in any way douche like. I think it took a great degree of integrity to walk away from what was sure to be a huge pile of cash just to keep their word. When talking about risk, you need to separate who is taking it. A store owner takes the risks that are both larger and possibly more rewarding. The risk described by Terroroy was was smaller and only a one time. GG rewarded that risk with exclusive minis. If they reprinted them, they would no longer be exclusive.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niranth View Post
    Joshua56, no I do not think that GG's move is in any way douche like. I think it took a great degree of integrity to walk away from what was sure to be a huge pile of cash just to keep their word. When talking about risk, you need to separate who is taking it. A store owner takes the risks that are both larger and possibly more rewarding. The risk described by Terroroy was was smaller and only a one time. GG rewarded that risk with exclusive minis. If they reprinted them, they would no longer be exclusive.
    There is 0 risk involved in backing a KS, either it gets funded and you get your product, or it doesn't and you aren't out anything.

  12. #12

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    Not taking sides in the argument, but there is risk in backing a KS. Just because it is funded, does not mean you will get your product. There have been KS's that have discovered that they were not able to provide their product for the money that was pledged.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by donnbobhardy View Post
    Not taking sides in the argument, but there is risk in backing a KS. Just because it is funded, does not mean you will get your product. There have been KS's that have discovered that they were not able to provide their product for the money that was pledged.
    And did the backers lose their money, or get it back?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Niranth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuar56 View Post
    There is 0 risk involved in backing a KS, either it gets funded and you get your product, or it doesn't and you aren't out anything.
    I respectfully disagree. The risks include: backing a game that is a dog, backing a company that cannot manage the project, and backing a game that comes with substandard components. Buying Season 1 at the time meant that no one could point to any reviews or even look at the rules. Backing the game was a leap of faith. The Season 1 exclusives were a reward for that leap.
    I get that you are not happy, but GG gave their reasons and your complaining will have absolutely no effect. Here is what GG has had to say on the matter-

    "Hello. The 26th of November we posted our official answer that hasn't changed and will not change: "To all the people asking us if these will be available to the market... The answer is no. These figures were conceived for the Kickstarter action and for Kickstarter backers only. We cannot betray our word and lack of respect to our backers. Dashboards will be free for download, so you can play with a proxy... I know many of you won't be happy, but I hope you understand our choice (and look from this perspective our choice: we are giving up good potential sales because we value more our word than some easy money...) Many new figures are coming in future offers... We will start the production of these promo figures in few weeks... ". We made nice good looking boxes because we value our customers and we think they will appreciate a nice box. Set#1 because in the future we will have other sets. At least we hope so. During convention it is possible that few figures will be available in limited run. We produced with a security margin of 5%. Nick, Cholo and Dave were not limited to Kickstarter only, but also to some marketing action with Ravage France and Edge in Spain and France. But they are very limited too. we know this decision could upset some gamers, but our word is our word and we will not change it for some easy money."
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niranth View Post
    I respectfully disagree. The risks include: backing a game that is a dog, backing a company that cannot manage the project, and backing a game that comes with substandard components. Buying Season 1 at the time meant that no one could point to any reviews or even look at the rules. Backing the game was a leap of faith. The Season 1 exclusives were a reward for that leap.
    I get that you are not happy, but GG gave their reasons and your complaining will have absolutely no effect. Here is what GG has had to say on the matter-

    "Hello. The 26th of November we posted our official answer that hasn't changed and will not change: "To all the people asking us if these will be available to the market... The answer is no. These figures were conceived for the Kickstarter action and for Kickstarter backers only. We cannot betray our word and lack of respect to our backers. Dashboards will be free for download, so you can play with a proxy... I know many of you won't be happy, but I hope you understand our choice (and look from this perspective our choice: we are giving up good potential sales because we value more our word than some easy money...) Many new figures are coming in future offers... We will start the production of these promo figures in few weeks... ". We made nice good looking boxes because we value our customers and we think they will appreciate a nice box. Set#1 because in the future we will have other sets. At least we hope so. During convention it is possible that few figures will be available in limited run. We produced with a security margin of 5%. Nick, Cholo and Dave were not limited to Kickstarter only, but also to some marketing action with Ravage France and Edge in Spain and France. But they are very limited too. we know this decision could upset some gamers, but our word is our word and we will not change it for some easy money."
    That's fine, I'm sure my reproducing the models will upset some at GG, but I won't change my mind either.

  16. #16

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    Heck, I may even start giving them away to people who pay "shipping and handling" just to kill the secondary market value of the figs. Same with season 2.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuar56 View Post
    Heck, I may even start giving them away to people who pay "shipping and handling" just to kill the secondary market value of the figs. Same with season 2.
    That would be illegal.
    And I would fully expect you to receive a cease and desist letter from GG/CMON's lawyers.
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  18. #18

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    In the case I heard of, the money was already spent. Each kickstarter does have a section at the bottom of the page that talks about risk. You are not guaranteed anything and can lose money.

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuar56 View Post
    And did the backers lose their money, or get it back?

  19. #19

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    There have been a number of threads and posts around (pretty sure Niranth's summary post here on the boards has the links) to stand in models from other lines and as stated above, you can download/print the character cards from the GG website. So other than a small molded piece of plastic, your game experience is not affected in any way.
    A number of companies have offered exclusive models as part of Kickstarters in order to bolster their numbers and the supporters would be the ones upset if their "exclusive" was made available to all at a later date.
    Other companies only limited runs of their models (McVey for one) and when they are gone, they're gone. Just the way things are.

  20. #20

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    In case there is any doubt whatsoever, we will come down like a ton of bricks on recasters. I strongly suggest you not volunteer to be the first test case. This thread is now closed.
    I like it firm and fruity!

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