New Goritsi Card Discussion! - Page 3
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Thread: New Goritsi Card Discussion!

  1. #41

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    Jesus... just stop with this BS already... This theoretical game you two are trying to play is derailing the entire thread...

  2. #42

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    Having looked some more at all the faction cards, I do have a slight feeling of betrayal about Ashmen Hakar being faster then the War Dancers (especially with the +2 movement training). This makes the Nasier the "fastest" faction point for point. This isn't to say I think that they are actually more maneuverable then the Goritsi or unbalanced - it just clashes with the original image of Goritsi in my head. The possibility of someone else having an infantry that can go 9" and then attack just grates at my soul =P. Not a serious complaint - just a matter of style.

    As for Ashmen vs War Dancers, or Bloodchild vs Dancers, I think you are isolating the issue too much. Why would you field just War Dancers? If you tried to lure out my War Dancers with two tempting Ashmen with another four Ashmen waiting in the wings, I'd take the two Ashmen out with a Skorza or two (and maybe have them immediately sprint back) and when the rest of the Ashmen attacked I'd finish them off with the Dancers.

    The way this game is designed no faction can avoid clumping their units to some extent and the Dancers take advantage of that. The Ashmen are less affected by this since they work best one on one, but the Pelegarth need to huddle together if they want a shield wall and there are plenty of units with similar requirements. As for the Bloodchild... How is he going to shoot at the Dancers when they are next to the Blood Engine?

    The Dancers are glass canons - why would you lead the charge with them? Use other units to force your opponent to clump together and then smash him! The way Wrath is set up is to create synergy between different types of troops so that no one type of unit is the best at everything - the Skorza can now take punishment and are more maneuverable but the Dancers can decimate enemy formations, together they are a very nasty combination.

    The Dancers have been completely changed. I like the original ones and I like the new ones. Between the two it's hard to say who is better, but I think the new ones are more balanced. The original ones were basically a whole Level 1 infantry set of Specialists. Their magic attack made them hit disproportionally hard to their at first glance appearance, but their Come Hither ability really made them more specialist than infantry. The new version is slower and doesn't have have the meta ability, but what they do have is a great attack that makes them hit harder than just about every other infantry - level 1 or 2 - in the game, but at the price of not having the defensive staying power of again pretty much all the other infantry in the game. They are the hardest hitting (point for point) and the easiest to kill. Glass canons by any definition and if you want to win with them you'll have to maneuver them just right and attack when it's most advantageous, and that to me is what Goritsi have been about since the start.
    Last edited by duke_bonez; 01-04-2014 at 03:53 PM. Reason: No such thing as a "Blood" Dancer, heh.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuar56 View Post
    Jesus... just stop with this BS already... This theoretical game you two are trying to play is derailing the entire thread...
    Im going to respect this and stop my argument here even though there was no other discussions going on to derail.

    I was finding it pointless to continuously restate what I was saying anyways because it was going nowhere do to a lack of understanding. Perhaps my fault of not being clear enough or lack of diagrams to better enforce my point... meh whichever Im done.

    Though, I am glad however that there is at least one other person that is disappointed that the old support role of the Blood Dancers was replaced with a simple melee oriented War Dancers unit which can be found in all the other factions. At least somebody understood my cookie cutter comment .

    Well thats it for me. Im out. Enjoy .

    *Edit* Oh I will say one more thing though which may redeem the thread and shove it back on track if it has been derailed... With the proper leader choices the Skorza can outshine the War Dancers in mob killing. Take Korrad Ungarash for your army commander for the training of 1 melee attack after sprinting. Then use an Skorza Alpha to activate your skirmishers. Charge in, kill 1 guy, shimmy over 2", kill another guy, sprint 4" to a 3rd guy for a final 1 dice attack or just fall back a bit.

    Skorza do have some nice tricks up their sleeve. Having a Dancing Master for a commander could also be useful to walk through the enemy lines to threaten the leaders behind them.

    Scourge Hound catapulting your models forward by 4" like a Skorza Skirmisher in the previous setup that I mentioned could cause nice havoc from 12" away. Or catapulting Gregorio over an enemy formation to get at something juicy.

    A Skorza Alpha as army leader would also be nice for a Skorza army. Skirmishers go in, kill, shuffle over, kill again, then sprint away for 6" keeping them safe from most retaliatory strikes. Now thats hit and run... not charging in, jumping in the middle of the enemy lines and waiting for the counter strike.

    Now Im done .
    Last edited by feketelovag; 01-04-2014 at 05:28 AM.

  4. #44

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    No argument there, with the right leader at the for front the Goritsi force as a whole are a bunch of scary killers

    As for the War Dancer / Blood Dancer debate, while I understand your disappointment in the change in role of the model, and agree it would have been nice if they filled a different niche then the Skorza, their come hither ability just wasn't as effective in practice as people felt it would be on paper.

    As for your example of just what a Skorza can do, I think you underlined the fact that the Goritsi IS the longest threat range, fastest, hit and run army that we were told it would be. Looking at the faction as a whole and not just a single unit they do live up to their reputation.

    feketlovag, I would suggest, that if you get a chance, put some proxies on the table a test out the new Goritsi (heck, test out the old Goritsi too) against an actual opponent and see if you like their feel after a couple of games. Seeing the Ebb and flow of the game with motivations chewing up moral and that end of turn tick down, and opponents who just won't follow your plan, and dice that hate you from time to time really gives you a better feel for what's likely to happen then just pen and paper debate. Hoping to see the updated motivations soon, will be interesting to see how that changes how each faction plays.

    joshuar56 - thanks for all of your helpful input to the Goritsi discussion, not sure where we would be without it.

  5. #45

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    Not much point in doing proxy games at this point seeing as we dont have all the up to date info, like the motivations as you mention, which in the previous version pretty heavily influenced the moral flow.

  6. #46

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    Even without the current motivations though, you do get to see combat interactions, it falls in line with the video that they put out. We have been running a few, just to get the feel of model durability and maneuverability. Even using the current models with the old motivations gives you the impending threat of moral loss.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke_bonez View Post
    Having looked some more at all the faction cards, I do have a slight feeling of betrayal about Ashmen Hakar being faster then the blood dancers (especially with the +2 movement training). This makes the Nasier the "fastest" faction point for point. This isn't to say I think that they are actually more maneuverable then the Goritsi or unbalanced - it just clashes with the original image of Goritsi in my head. The possibility of someone else having an infantry that can go 9" and then attack just grates at my soul =P. Not a serious complaint - just a matter of style.

    As for Ashmen vs Blood Dancers, or Bloodchild vs Dancers, I think you are isolating the issue too much. Why would you field just Blood Dancers? If you tried to lure out my blood dancers with two tempting Ashmen with another four Ashmen waiting in the wings, I'd take the two Ashmen out with a Skorza or two (and maybe have them immediately sprint back) and when the rest of the Ashmen attacked I'd finish them off with the Dancers.

    The way this game is designed no faction can avoid clumping their units to some extent and the Dancers take advantage of that. The Ashmen are less affected by this since they work best one on one, but the Pelegarth need to huddle together if they want a shield wall and there are plenty of units with similar requirements. As for the Bloodchild... How is he going to shoot at the Dancers when they are next to the Blood Engine?

    The Dancers are glass canons - why would you lead the charge with them? Use other units to force your opponent to clump together and then smash him! The way Wrath is set up is to create synergy between different types of troops so that no one type of unit is the best at everything - the Skorza can now take punishment and are more maneuverable but the Dancers can decimate enemy formations, together they are a very nasty combination.

    The Dancers have been completely changed. I like the original ones and I like the new ones. Between the two it's hard to say who is better, but I think the new ones are more balanced. The original ones were basically a whole Level 1 infantry set of Specialists. Their magic attack made them hit disproportionally hard to their at first glance appearance, but their Come Hither ability really made them more specialist than infantry. The new version is slower and doesn't have have the meta ability, but what they do have is a great attack that makes them hit harder than just about every other infantry - level 1 or 2 - in the game, but at the price of not having the defensive staying power of again pretty much all the other infantry in the game. They are the hardest hitting (point for point) and the easiest to kill. Glass canons by any definition and if you want to win with them you'll have to maneuver them just right and attack when it's most advantageous, and that to me is what Goritsi have been about since the start.
    This. I feel like the Skora even with their movement tricks are the front line fighters. You could use their movement tricks to back up and then reengage later, but I plan on using their sprint to jam further in while trying to score on the scenario. I plan on using Blood Dancers as my second line, and to pick off straggler around the flanks.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke_bonez View Post
    Having looked some more at all the faction cards, I do have a slight feeling of betrayal about Ashmen Hakar being faster then the blood dancers (especially with the +2 movement training). This makes the Nasier the "fastest" faction point for point. This isn't to say I think that they are actually more maneuverable then the Goritsi or unbalanced - it just clashes with the original image of Goritsi in my head. The possibility of someone else having an infantry that can go 9" and then attack just grates at my soul =P. Not a serious complaint - just a matter of style.
    They don't have a 2 move training, it's an inspire on Pelegarth, meaning Ashmen won't move faster than 7.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by PraetorDragoon View Post
    They don't have a 2 move training, it's an inspire on Pelegarth, meaning Ashmen won't move faster than 7.
    You are absolutely right! Well that makes me feel better=].

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke_bonez View Post
    You are absolutely right! Well that makes me feel better=].
    It's all little things.

    Also, the 6" move is a trap, as if you play with 60%-70% rough terrain, you will usually move faster than the opponent due to leap and other terrain ignorement.

  11. #51

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    So here is a question: Do the War Dancers have Leap, or do they only gain it for the duration of a Deadly Flourish? That's one thing that's unclear with several of the cards, as sometimes they list an ability that the card always has, and sometimes it's simply there to explain what an attack does, which leads to my confusion.

    Another question about Leap: does it affect terrain penalties? As it's written on the cards right now it simply states that you can pass through models (though if you are engaged you still have to pay the disengage penalty) and that you can't end your movement overlapping another model or impassible terrain. It doesn't say that you ignore penalties or can move through impassable terrain.

    Last question: Deadly Flourish reads that you have to make an attack on every model you pass through - is that correct? Or can I go through a friendly and an enemy and only attack the enemy?

  12. #52

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    Hey Duke,

    Deadly Flourish reads:

    This action can only be used if unengaged. Move this model up to 4” in a straight line. This model gains Leap during this move. Make 1 melee attack on every enemy model passed through with this movement. Reaction[X] abilities cannot be used against this attack.

    In the definition it states the model GAINS leap during this movement, therefore it grants the ability only during that movement. It also states you make 1 melee attack on every ENEMY model passed through.

    Leap reads:

    During free movement, this model may move through and does not contact models. This model cannot end this movement with its base overlapping another model or impassable terrain. If this model begins this movement in contact with an enemy model, it must disengage normally.

    As it does not state anything about terrain, it does not have an effect on terrain.


    Last edited by AngelicOne; 01-05-2014 at 09:11 PM.
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  13. #53

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    Thanks Derek. The card for War Dancers has Leap listed under Special Abilities, so I wasn't sure if it was there because they had it or to just clarify the the Flourish.

  14. #54

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    Understood, I'll see if we can come up with something to make it read more clear.
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  15. #55

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    So has anyone gotten in any games since the new cards were released? I almost got one the other day but sadly it fell through.

    Even though we don't have updated motivations, I was curious how the pieces were playing.

  16. #56

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    I'm holding off till we get updated rules to go with updated cards

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskeymancer View Post
    I'm holding off till I can kick this nasty League of Legends habit

    Fixt that for ya!!!
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  18. #58

  19. #59

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    Question for you: Precision states that it works with attack dice - so would it work for the Dancing Master's Come Hither? Or for Herald of Blood's Compel?

  20. #60

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    Yes and no.

    Come Hither is a will attack. Attack dice are attack dice regardless of whether or not it is a melee, magic, ranged or will attack.

    There is nothing on the Herald of Bloods ability set that grants it Precision, and leader models cannot activate other leader models in a combined activation. I will make sure this language is clear in the core rules.
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