New Teknes Card Discussion!
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  1. #1

    Default New Teknes Card Discussion!

    Post your discussions about the newly revamped cards here.

    See something you love?

    See something you hate?

    Either way, let us know here and talk it over with other faction fans!

    http://wrathofkings.com/ks/rules/house-of-teknes/

  2. #2

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    Love the new layout, but can't read the cards tbh, would love to have a pdf of all of them like the rules.

  3. #3

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    The font on the new layout is still fairly small even when you expand the cards to standard card size.

    Walking through the units it looks like all the parry locations on the cards were arbitrarily changed to strikes. For the standard troops, looks like they all lost the Magic defense they used to have. Looking at each of the units by type

    Defender Linemen - got a big boost with the fact that they are only hit 30% of the time now, their attack now ignores 1 level of dodge, and they maintain counter attack. They also gain the ability of rescue. Overall, these guys made out pretty good.

    Defender Linemen Controller - Defense line is almost identical, but for some strange reason a parry was added to him. Reduced his counter attack, added defensive expertise and rescue, and changed out his training and inspire abilities. Overall, he is different, but did not really gain or lose in the changes

    Defender Raeth Sevisk - His Defensive stat line changed to make him harder to hit, and his weapon gained a upgrade adding suppression to it and an extra attack die (which really should have been there from the start). His Counter attack was reduced, and he now has Hold the line, which a similar trait was lost from the Controller. His Inspire adds a new trait Unstoppabe(1), and his training gives Evasion(1), another new trait. Overall it seems that Raeth in this incarnation fills the roll that the Controller did previously.

    The play of the defender line has shifted from massive amounts of speed (With Raeth and a controller in the previous version, linemen where the fastest troop in the game) to more of a protect your buddy, which by the fluff feels more like they should.

    The Union
    Union Workers - like all workers, these guys get boned. The only real change is that they are now hit 50% of the time instead of 40%, though one of the Overpowers was changed to a Strike. Aside from this, they remain relatively unchanged

    Union Boss - his defensive stat line remains similar to before, his melee gets an additional attack die, but he lost Pain Fueled (which is a nice bonus to get). Bolster was changed, it basically does the same, but is easier to understand now. HE no longer inspires his troops to injure themselves, instead bolsters their attack, but he also no longer allows them to shift their wounds, instead they move towards a downed compatriot. Again, like in life the Boss gets the benefits at the expense of the workers. Overall this is a pretty solid model.

    The Ironward - He became at the same time harder and easier to hit. He now only has 2 strikes on his card, but he lost 3 ranks of Magic, which allows many offensive abilities to affect him to a greater degree. His melee attack gained suppression (these new Teknes seem to truly despise magic, which fits their fluff well). His action primal Surge helps his troops waddle forward a bit, but makes no sense, since only unengaged units can perform the action, why would it also state that they get to ignore disengage penalties? He lost he ranged attack, but maintainied Rein them In, but with the loss of the Union Bosses training, this becomes a meaningless and useless ability. May as well just remove it from the card to save space. His inspire changed from being able to heal, to giving his troops the ability to take down high defense models, while the training does give additional attacks. Overall I find the Ironward now meh. His Inspre is over the top awesome, the rest, not really anything to write home about.

    So, for the state of the union, I am saddened. The models that made me want to get into the game are now the ones I may as well dump in the trash. The workers have no way to survive any attacks on then, and will be whittled away before they get the chance to attack back.Wonder if the Pledge Manager is still open.

    Onto the Specialists
    My Favorite - The Zaalak - Lost 2 will, had his melee range fixed and added 1 more overpower to his stat line, so he is hit 50% of the time now. The additional overpower does allow for Unleashed to activate more often. Overall, the Zaalak is basically unchanged.

    Sorik the Unfinished - Lost 1 Will, his stat line remains similar, but he has 4 magic defense ranks now. He maintains a magic attack, but adds an attack die and loses bounce, while gaining suppression and sundering. Makes this a very good attack to have. His shredding claws are seriously beefed up and he will cut through high defense models like butter. Add in Galvanic feedback, and Sorik is a scary model, easily worth his Rank 2 cost.

    C.A.G.E. - the most underwhelming monster in the previous iteration. In this one he starts out being easier to hit, His attack drops a die, but picks up sweep, he gets a 2" AoE magic blast. He picks up and crappy version of Counter attack, and Galvanic Backlash reactions and loses his ability to shield, ward and provide cover. He has gone from a support model that rarely sees table time, to one who will never see table time. Hmmmm..... I heard that CMoN was giving refunds

    Finally, the Galvanic Defender, who doesn't like a rabid Kangaroo? He loses 1 will, exchanges a Magic defense for another strike, making yet another unit easier to hit. Seems only Linemen know how to protect themselves. His magic attack gains Suppression, his Galvanic Feedback Aura is nice for defending against the pesky magic users, the same can be said for his Reinforce Will, but since these are toggles it forces the Defender to move early telegraphing your intent. And finally Ward Bearer, which could be a nice ability, but there is no description to state what size the aura is.

    So, in a nut shell, Linemen Great, Union workers horrible, but their leaders will definitely benefit the linemen. C.A.G.E. - waste of space, Sorik - awesome, Zaalak - well he is the Zaalak, and the Defender is situational, but has a place.

  4. #4

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    I generally agree. Lineman are very solid, but I sincerely can't see why you would EVER take piggies over them. I'd love it if I'm missing something here, but this feels a bit like a Beta stage test where they thought Union Workers were miles too good so they removed all their good rules and are going to add them back in one at a time to see what breaks them. Problem is, if they're 'finished' (subject to tweaks, as stated) I don't see what they do. If anyone involved in the playtesting can point out an obvious interaction we're missing that would be awesome, thanks.

    Otherwise, Sorik andthe GD seem good. Zaalak is kind of OK but seems to be essentially a guided suicide missile which I suspect is easy to avoid by throwing in one model to kill it and only lose that guy in the Unleashed attacks. It's still OK though, high speed and nimble is a thing.

    CAGE I'm not quite so pessimistic though. He may not be as good as some monsters but still isn't bad. Less support model and more straightforward fighter. Reasonably tough with a couple of solid reactions (Counterattack (1) is a bit of a kick in the balls, should be (2) IMO, but meh).

    BTW - don't know if this is a typo or my misread, but how many dice do you roll on Galvanic Backlash attacks? It says * then you target all in range - but does that mean one dice allocated per model targeted, or what?

  5. #5

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    Swan: I agree with a LOT of what you said. You did miss a few important nerfs though. One is the Dal...Zaalek. He went from Resilence 2 and 1 wound to Resilance 1 and 2 wounds. This is a lot bigger difference than it would seem. Now he is really easy to kill without triggering his one useful ability. It also makes his Abomination ability less useful now since a single model with 2 attack dice can take him out with no problem. The other is that not only was "pain fueled" taken away from the Union Boss and The Ironward, but it was also nerfed from +1 rate to attack and +1mobility to +1 rate to attack. I've now completely lost interest in Teknes. I'm hoping that due to the way my friends and I have done our ordering that I can swap my order for one of the other armies we have ordered.

  6. #6

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    Well that was something horrible to miss, good catch Urionfranz. Well, now the Zaalak is going to get sent to the trash bin also. Guess I should quickly look over the other factions and see if I can't change my order. This is truly a disappointing update.

    I would really enjoy hearing how giving a Pain Fueled model Unbreakable does anything now.

  7. #7

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    So while I will say that anyone is absolutely entitled to their opinions, and that designers are not infallible, I am going to go over some things here and express some points:



    Walking through the units it looks like all the parry locations on the cards were arbitrarily changed to strikes. For the standard troops, looks like they all lost the Magic defense they used to have. Looking at each of the units by type

    All defense charts across the game were streamlined to fit more of any army theme. As it was before, almost every model had a Parry somewhere- this leads to an imbalance of "replace (x) abilities" and makes armies run together.


    Defender Linemen - got a big boost with the fact that they are only hit 30% of the time now, their attack now ignores 1 level of dodge, and they maintain counter attack. They also gain the ability of rescue. Overall, these guys made out pretty good

    Nothing flashy, nothing super fancy, and fits the theme of Teknes in punishing the enemy for acting against you. These guys have no real offensive tricks but are a pain to deal with.


    Defender Linemen Controller - Defense line is almost identical, but for some strange reason a parry was added to him. Reduced his counter attack, added defensive expertise and rescue, and changed out his training and inspire abilities. Overall, he is different, but did not really gain or lose in the changes


    Defender Raeth Sevisk - His Defensive stat line changed to make him harder to hit, and his weapon gained a upgrade adding suppression to it and an extra attack die (which really should have been there from the start). His Counter attack was reduced, and he now has Hold the line, which a similar trait was lost from the Controller. His Inspire adds a new trait Unstoppabe(1), and his training gives Evasion(1), another new trait. Overall it seems that Raeth in this incarnation fills the roll that the Controller did previously.The play of the defender line has shifted from massive amounts of speed (With Raeth and a controller in the previous version, linemen where the fastest troop in the game) to more of a protect your buddy, which by the fluff feels more like they should.

    the Linemen are your shield, they do as their name suggests- they hold the line. These are not the melee combatants as with the Ashmen or the War Dancers, these guys are for trenching down into a location and not giving ground.


    The Union
    Union Workers - like all workers, these guys get boned. The only real change is that they are now hit 50% of the time instead of 40%, though one of the Overpowers was changed to a Strike. Aside from this, they remain relatively unchanged


    The Union Workers are the only non-elite 2 wound infantry in the game- this is a huge benefit as they can literally take twice the damage of any other Rank 1 infantry. Before, however, this was still mitigated by the amount of Overs on their defense chart, which means their main benefit in existing could be canceled out- this has been removed. Likewise, in Pain Fueled, their weakness of being slow was also being removed, as if to be countered. Just as mitigating a strength with an added weakness doesn't work, nor does giving them a weakness then in the same breath giving them something to remove it work. We still wanted these guys to be offensive-oriented however, thus the benefit of gaining a second attack when damaged- something only the War Dancers of Goritsi possess, and they pay for it by being one of the most fragile infantry in the game.

    Union Boss - his defensive stat line remains similar to before, his melee gets an additional attack die, but he lost Pain Fueled (which is a nice bonus to get). Bolster was changed, it basically does the same, but is easier to understand now. HE no longer inspires his troops to injure themselves, instead bolsters their attack, but he also no longer allows them to shift their wounds, instead they move towards a downed compatriot. Again, like in life the Boss gets the benefits at the expense of the workers. Overall this is a pretty solid model.

    The ability to shift Union Workers wounds around was simply too much... In all honesty an army of Union Workers lead by Bosses was almost unbeatable if the player knew what they were doing. Being able to shift wounds around as a player sees fit meant that they completely controlled when and where their line broke, and that was simply taking too much away from the opponent. With this one ability the Teknes player controlled the ebb and flow of the battlefield with little their opponent could do to stop it, and in the hands of someone who could exploit it lead to simply miserable gameplay for the opponent and a commanding slide for the Teknes player.

    The Ironward - He became at the same time harder and easier to hit. He now only has 2 strikes on his card, but he lost 3 ranks of Magic, which allows many offensive abilities to affect him to a greater degree. His melee attack gained suppression (these new Teknes seem to truly despise magic, which fits their fluff well). His action primal Surge helps his troops waddle forward a bit, but makes no sense, since only unengaged units can perform the action, why would it also state that they get to ignore disengage penalties? He lost he ranged attack, but maintainied Rein them In, but with the loss of the Union Bosses training, this becomes a meaningless and useless ability. May as well just remove it from the card to save space. His inspire changed from being able to heal, to giving his troops the ability to take down high defense models, while the training does give additional attacks. Overall I find the Ironward now meh. His Inspre is over the top awesome, the rest, not really anything to write home about.

    The last line of Primal Surge should be removed, since as you said it is redundant and confusing. I do have to question however why you believe Rein Them In is useless and meaningless- it removes the lowest Over and turns it into a Strike, meaning the Union Members are only suffering 1 wound instead of being outright killed. I don't see how that is in any way useless when talking about a model that gains benefits for being wounded but not killed?


    So, for the state of the union, I am saddened. The models that made me want to get into the game are now the ones I may as well dump in the trash. The workers have no way to survive any attacks on then, and will be whittled away before they get the chance to attack back.Wonder if the Pledge Manager is still open.

    Once again I feel like I need to point out Union Workers have 2 HP- meaning one-for-one trade off on any other Rank 1 Infantry in the game they will not be killed unless a 9-10 is rolled. These guys are, statistically, actually one of the most survivable models in the game. If faced with any number of Union Workers, the opponent is left with only two real options in dealing with them- focus their attacks on one until it is dead, in which case they are now (in the case of infantry) putting their resources 2 for 1 in taking out a threat, or wade against them 1v1, in which case they will only end up wounding them majority of the time and now have to face 2 dice in retaliation. I again say I understand people have their own opinions on matters but I cannot see how a Rank 1 Infantry with 2 wounds and the potential for 2 attacks is in any way sub-par.

    Onto the Specialists
    My Favorite - The Zaalak - Lost 2 will, had his melee range fixed and added 1 more overpower to his stat line, so he is hit 50% of the time now. The additional overpower does allow for Unleashed to activate more often. Overall, the Zaalak is basically unchanged.

    The Zaalak is a suicide model, plain and simple- we want to see his ability trigger and trigger often, and now it is an actual risk for the opponent to attack him as putting any real number of dice on him will almost guarantee a trigger (or multiple) off his abilities. Coupled with the unfortunate bit that the opponent has to deal with him (-2 Command Value is crippling) and he is a pain for any army to face.

    Sorik the Unfinished - Lost 1 Will, his stat line remains similar, but he has 4 magic defense ranks now. He maintains a magic attack, but adds an attack die and loses bounce, while gaining suppression and sundering. Makes this a very good attack to have. His shredding claws are seriously beefed up and he will cut through high defense models like butter. Add in Galvanic feedback, and Sorik is a scary model, easily worth his Rank 2 cost.

    Sorik got some meat added to him. Before he was a bit underwhelming and we wanted to fix that, especially in a character Rank 2 Specialist.

    C.A.G.E. - the most underwhelming monster in the previous iteration. In this one he starts out being easier to hit, His attack drops a die, but picks up sweep, he gets a 2" AoE magic blast. He picks up and crappy version of Counter attack, and Galvanic Backlash reactions and loses his ability to shield, ward and provide cover. He has gone from a support model that rarely sees table time, to one who will never see table time. Hmmmm..... I heard that CMoN was giving refunds

    One thing I want to specifically cal out here is the fact that any non-strike attack on this model is triggering a reactionary attack in some manor, whether it be his Critical Blow Pole Axe or Galvanic Suppresion. I am noticing however the [1] from his Galvanic Backlash is missing, also to be corrected. I want to likewise point out he is doing a 1 die attack on every model within 2 inches of him. This gives him the widest and potentially best AoE attack in the game, one that can also trigger just for being attacked.

    Finally, the Galvanic Defender, who doesn't like a rabid Kangaroo? He loses 1 will, exchanges a Magic defense for another strike, making yet another unit easier to hit. Seems only Linemen know how to protect themselves. His magic attack gains Suppression, his Galvanic Feedback Aura is nice for defending against the pesky magic users, the same can be said for his Reinforce Will, but since these are toggles it forces the Defender to move early telegraphing your intent. And finally Ward Bearer, which could be a nice ability, but there is no description to state what size the aura is.

    Good catch on the Ward Bearer. I will have that corrected immediately. Auras dont help much if they dont have a size. And while, yes, being toggle his abilities do mean your telegraphing your intent... What does that mean your opponent can do about it other than just deal with it?

    So, in a nut shell, Linemen Great, Union workers horrible, but their leaders will definitely benefit the linemen. C.A.G.E. - waste of space, Sorik - awesome, Zaalak - well he is the Zaalak, and the Defender is situational, but has a place.

  8. #8

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    So while I will say that anyone is absolutely entitled to their opinions, and that designers are not infallible, I am going to go over some things here and express some points:

    Walking through the units it looks like all the parry locations on the cards were arbitrarily changed to strikes. For the standard troops, looks like they all lost the Magic defense they used to have. Looking at each of the units by type

    All defense charts across the game were streamlined to fit more of any army theme. As it was before, almost every model had a Parry somewhere- this leads to an imbalance of "replace (x) abilities" and makes armies run together.

    I agree, and I think that this is a good thing, though some of the choices seem a bit arbitrary, I will accept that these were all made with testing from the Dev team, and that they are fine.

    Defender Linemen - got a big boost with the fact that they are only hit 30% of the time now, their attack now ignores 1 level of dodge, and they maintain counter attack. They also gain the ability of rescue. Overall, these guys made out pretty good

    Nothing flashy, nothing super fancy, and fits the theme of Teknes in punishing the enemy for acting against you. These guys have no real offensive tricks but are a pain to deal with.

    Defender Linemen Controller - Defense line is almost identical, but for some strange reason a parry was added to him. Reduced his counter attack, added defensive expertise and rescue, and changed out his training and inspire abilities. Overall, he is different, but did not really gain or lose in the changes

    Defender Raeth Sevisk - His Defensive stat line changed to make him harder to hit, and his weapon gained a upgrade adding suppression to it and an extra attack die (which really should have been there from the start). His Counter attack was reduced, and he now has Hold the line, which a similar trait was lost from the Controller. His Inspire adds a new trait Unstoppabe(1), and his training gives Evasion(1), another new trait. Overall it seems that Raeth in this incarnation fills the roll that the Controller did previously.The play of the defender line has shifted from massive amounts of speed (With Raeth and a controller in the previous version, linemen where the fastest troop in the game) to more of a protect your buddy, which by the fluff feels more like they should.

    the Linemen are your shield, they do as their name suggests- they hold the line. These are not the melee combatants as with the Ashmen or the War Dancers, these guys are for trenching down into a location and not giving ground.


    The Union
    Union Workers - like all workers, these guys get boned. The only real change is that they are now hit 50% of the time instead of 40%, though one of the Overpowers was changed to a Strike. Aside from this, they remain relatively unchanged


    The Union Workers are the only non-elite 2 wound infantry in the game- this is a huge benefit as they can literally take twice the damage of any other Rank 1 infantry. Before, however, this was still mitigated by the amount of Overs on their defense chart, which means their main benefit in existing could be canceled out- this has been removed. Likewise, in Pain Fueled, their weakness of being slow was also being removed, as if to be countered. Just as mitigating a strength with an added weakness doesn't work, nor does giving them a weakness then in the same breath giving them something to remove it work. We still wanted these guys to be offensive-oriented however, thus the benefit of gaining a second attack when damaged- something only the War Dancers of Goritsi possess, and they pay for it by being one of the most fragile infantry in the game.


    Basically I agree that the benefit of a 2 wound Rank 1 Infantry (since the term Elite has been removed from the cards) is huge. They pay for this ability by STILL having more Overpowers on their card than any other infantry, and by have a "fragile" defense chart, and by having no abilities unless they are injured, and by being the slowest "offensive" troop on the game. Seems like that is a lot of weaknesses to mitigate their strength. All of this seems counter to what you are saying about them. Once they take 1 and only 1 damage they gain the benefit of a second die on their attack, but still have no other offensive benefits and now are as fragile as a Blade Dancer, but without their movement benefits or their multiple attack benefits. And comparing them to the Ashmen, well the Union Workers Leaders do nothing to help mitigate their weakness, but the Ashmen leaders do give the Ashmen a second attack die. So in reality now we have 3 rank 1 infantry with the ability to have 2 attack dice. Spearmen of Hadross, and Dragon Legionaires, while never getting 2 dice on an attack, do benefit from gaining a second 1 die attack with their leader support. The union Boss gives the Workers an offensive aid with Offensive expertise, which still makes them worse than their counter parts. Lets take a quick look at how the "Offensive" Worker stacks up against the War Dancers and the Ashmen Swords men

    Threat Range-

    Workers 5"
    Ashmen 7"
    War Dancers 9"

    Likelyhood of killing undamaged opponent -
    Workers 50% chance to kill Wardancer
    War Dancer 45% chance to kill the worker - but the War Dancer can does this to multiple workers in a single attack

    Workers 40% chance to kill Ashman
    Ashman 36% chance to kill the worker

    The Worker has a slight edge, but this is mitigated by the fact that the worker will rarely get in the first hit.

    Now, adding in their respective level 1 leader lets look at what happens:

    Likelyhood of killing undamaged opponent -
    Workers 75% chance to kill Wardancer - but to be able to accomplish this 2 Workers must be engaged with the War Dancer, otherwise we are back to just the 50% chance - making this the poor mans version of expertise, and limiting the # or models the Workers can engage, hampering their "offensiveness" even more.
    War Dancer 57% chance to kill the worker - and again can attack multiple workers in a singleattack

    Workers 60% chance to kill Ashman - again, as long as there are 2 workers engaging the Ashman
    Ashman 68% chance to kill the worker

    While these charts skew upwards if the Worker is wounded, but as can be seen, an Ashman is more likely to kill a 2 wound worker with its leaders inspire, than the worker is to kill that single wound with its leaders inspire, and the Bosses inspiration actually hampers the workers ability to eliminate opponents, rather then bolstering is as the Ashmans and the War Dancers does.


    Union Boss - his defensive stat line remains similar to before, his melee gets an additional attack die, but he lost Pain Fueled (which is a nice bonus to get). Bolster was changed, it basically does the same, but is easier to understand now. HE no longer inspires his troops to injure themselves, instead bolsters their attack, but he also no longer allows them to shift their wounds, instead they move towards a downed compatriot. Again, like in life the Boss gets the benefits at the expense of the workers. Overall this is a pretty solid model.

    The ability to shift Union Workers wounds around was simply too much... In all honesty an army of Union Workers lead by Bosses was almost unbeatable if the player knew what they were doing. Being able to shift wounds around as a player sees fit meant that they completely controlled when and where their line broke, and that was simply taking too much away from the opponent. With this one ability the Teknes player controlled the ebb and flow of the battlefield with little their opponent could do to stop it, and in the hands of someone who could exploit it lead to simply miserable gameplay for the opponent and a commanding slide for the Teknes player.


    While I agree this was a strong ability, it only lasted a short while until moving wounds around could no longer be accomplished without the loss of models. It gave the workers a durability to withstand always getting hit first. Look at the stats above and realize that the War Dancer will average 1.7 damage a strike with multiple strikes a turn, and that an ashman will average about 1.8 damage each attack and how long will shifting wounds save the Workers, since they absorb the first hit. With luck there may be a few still standing to hit back.

    The Ironward - He became at the same time harder and easier to hit. He now only has 2 strikes on his card, but he lost 3 ranks of Magic, which allows many offensive abilities to affect him to a greater degree. His melee attack gained suppression (these new Teknes seem to truly despise magic, which fits their fluff well). His action primal Surge helps his troops waddle forward a bit, but makes no sense, since only unengaged units can perform the action, why would it also state that they get to ignore disengage penalties? He lost he ranged attack, but maintainied Rein them In, but with the loss of the Union Bosses training, this becomes a meaningless and useless ability. May as well just remove it from the card to save space. His inspire changed from being able to heal, to giving his troops the ability to take down high defense models, while the training does give additional attacks. Overall I find the Ironward now meh. His Inspre is over the top awesome, the rest, not really anything to write home about.

    The last line of Primal Surge should be removed, since as you said it is redundant and confusing. I do have to question however why you believe Rein Them In is useless and meaningless- it removes the lowest Over and turns it into a Strike, meaning the Union Members are only suffering 1 wound instead of being outright killed. I don't see how that is in any way useless when talking about a model that gains benefits for being wounded but not killed?

    ok, after I wrote my response I could see that this can be read differently. I read it that they needed to be pain fueled to have any benefit, in this case Rein Them in Doesn't matter since to be Pain Fueled you had to be wounded, making the ability useless. If you read it that is Pain Fueled is on the card, whether or not they are damaged, then yes then Rein them In Helps out the workers, which will skew my tables above, but only for the few workers hugging the Ironward.


    So, for the state of the union, I am saddened. The models that made me want to get into the game are now the ones I may as well dump in the trash. The workers have no way to survive any attacks on then, and will be whittled away before they get the chance to attack back.Wonder if the Pledge Manager is still open.

    Once again I feel like I need to point out Union Workers have 2 HP- meaning one-for-one trade off on any other Rank 1 Infantry in the game they will not be killed unless a 9-10 is rolled. These guys are, statistically, actually one of the most survivable models in the game. If faced with any number of Union Workers, the opponent is left with only two real options in dealing with them- focus their attacks on one until it is dead, in which case they are now (in the case of infantry) putting their resources 2 for 1 in taking out a threat, or wade against them 1v1, in which case they will only end up wounding them majority of the time and now have to face 2 dice in retaliation. I again say I understand people have their own opinions on matters but I cannot see how a Rank 1 Infantry with 2 wounds and the potential for 2 attacks is in any way sub-par.

    Well, at this time I can only point to the table above which shows that a leader lead offensive War Dancer of Ashman will cut through the workers 1 on 1 far easier then the worker will cut through them. I can run the same analysis with Hadross and Shael Han, but to make if balanced I would have to do a 5 on 5 account, to show he benefits they gain, and how that mitigates the "Awesome Sauce" that is the Union Worker.



    Onto the Specialists
    My Favorite - The Zaalak - Lost 2 will, had his melee range fixed and added 1 more overpower to his stat line, so he is hit 50% of the time now. The additional overpower does allow for Unleashed to activate more often. Overall, the Zaalak is basically unchanged.

    The Zaalak is a suicide model, plain and simple- we want to see his ability trigger and trigger often, and now it is an actual risk for the opponent to attack him as putting any real number of dice on him will almost guarantee a trigger (or multiple) off his abilities. Coupled with the unfortunate bit that the opponent has to deal with him (-2 Command Value is crippling) and he is a pain for any army to face.

    The problem with the Zaalak now is the fact that it has 1 defense and 2 wounds instead of 2 defense and one wound, which actually makes it less likely that he will get off his suicide attack, and he becomes less of a tie up piece, which means that the -2 command isn't going to be around long enough to have any real impact.

    Sorik the Unfinished - Lost 1 Will, his stat line remains similar, but he has 4 magic defense ranks now. He maintains a magic attack, but adds an attack die and loses bounce, while gaining suppression and sundering. Makes this a very good attack to have. His shredding claws are seriously beefed up and he will cut through high defense models like butter. Add in Galvanic feedback, and Sorik is a scary model, easily worth his Rank 2 cost.

    Sorik got some meat added to him. Before he was a bit underwhelming and we wanted to fix that, especially in a character Rank 2 Specialist.
    And in this I have to agree, you did a nice job on Sorik

    C.A.G.E. - the most underwhelming monster in the previous iteration. In this one he starts out being easier to hit, His attack drops a die, but picks up sweep, he gets a 2" AoE magic blast. He picks up and crappy version of Counter attack, and Galvanic Backlash reactions and loses his ability to shield, ward and provide cover. He has gone from a support model that rarely sees table time, to one who will never see table time. Hmmmm..... I heard that CMoN was giving refunds

    One thing I want to specifically cal out here is the fact that any non-strike attack on this model is triggering a reactionary attack in some manor, whether it be his Critical Blow Pole Axe or Galvanic Suppresion. I am noticing however the [1] from his Galvanic Backlash is missing, also to be corrected. I want to likewise point out he is doing a 1 die attack on every model within 2 inches of him. This gives him the widest and potentially best AoE attack in the game, one that can also trigger just for being attacked.

    It is nice to know at what level Galvanic Backlash attacks, and the fact that he gets several reactions, which would be great if there weren't so many attacks out there that negate reactions. Also, while he has "potentially the best AoE" in the game, its use is very situational, and easily negated by the speed of the other forces he faces. Overall, he is still just a meh model


    Finally, the Galvanic Defender, who doesn't like a rabid Kangaroo? He loses 1 will, exchanges a Magic defense for another strike, making yet another unit easier to hit. Seems only Linemen know how to protect themselves. His magic attack gains Suppression, his Galvanic Feedback Aura is nice for defending against the pesky magic users, the same can be said for his Reinforce Will, but since these are toggles it forces the Defender to move early telegraphing your intent. And finally Ward Bearer, which could be a nice ability, but there is no description to state what size the aura is.

    Good catch on the Ward Bearer. I will have that corrected immediately. Auras dont help much if they dont have a size. And while, yes, being toggle his abilities do mean your telegraphing your intent... What does that mean your opponent can do about it other than just deal with it?

    So basically with the choices that the Teknes has for Specialists, we better hope that the three we haven't seen are worth it, becuase except for certain matchups where the Defender will be useful, all the Teknes truly have to rely on is Sorik, and a rank 2 C.A.G.E. which is worth about 1.5 ranks.

  9. #9

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    So, taking an even deeper look at the Union Worker as an offensive model, all I can say is "How?"

    Lets take away the fact that they will never get the first strike.
    And for arguments sake, lets say somehow some way you managed to only take a single wound each on your squad of workers, and it is finally time for some pay back

    Why in the world would the Union Boss give the crappiest inspiration of all time (well second crappiest, since the Linemen actually beat them here).

    The inspiration Gives out Offensive Expertise (which is awesome) but only if two or more Workers are attacking the same model? So, once these guys beef up to 2 attack dice a piece, the plan is for them to use 4 dice and a re-roll against a single model? That will surely slow down the rank and file troops facing them, as they all fall over laughing.

    Compare this to the the Wardancers addition of precision, with their ability to attack up to 4 (possible 5 but that takes some really poor play by your opponent), wit their 2 dice. At that point it makes no difference how fragile they are since they will eliminate ANY rank 1 squad they come up against. Against a fresh squad of Undamaged Workers they will eliminate the entire squad 85% of the time (assuming that each Worker is taking at least 2 attacks - which is very easy for the War Dancers to accomplish). Against any other troop out there the Dancers will eliminate their troops better then 94% of the time. If 5 Wardancers faced off against 5 Skorza Alpha's (double their ranks in troops), the wardancers have a 48% chance to eliminate the alphas in a single assault.

    Against the Ashmen things are not nearly as bad. When the Ashmen come in for the first strike they are going to spread their attacks to take advantage of their abilities. In this case 36% of the workers will be eliminated, but 60% of the survivors will be fueled by pain, and each survivor will be engaged, so there will be no Inspiration being used (which over all is a positive thing, using the inspiration would only hamper the Workers Counter Attack, by reducing the Possible number of targets they can attack). So using the 5 man squad scenario, 2 Workers Die, 2 are pain fueled, and one is unscathed. The return attack will average 1.5 Swordsmen down, depending on the dice the forces are tied at 3-3, or possibly 4-3 Ashmen ahead. At this point If the Ashmen go first the Workers die, with 90% certainty. If the Workers win Initiative, Ashmen lose 1.5 more troops, their return volley will eliminate 2 Workers, leaving the combat at a 2-1 Ashmen lead. Not too bad, but this did not take into account any counterattacks that could have been generated by the Ashmen, and since they can take these even if they die, it is more likely we are looking at a 2 Ashmen standing and all workers down. Still, this is far better then facing War Dancers

    The fact that the workers have no abilities, are easily wounded and have no useful inspirations to aid them is just sad.

    The only solution that the Teknes have to possible combat this is by bringing the Ironward. His training allows at least a chance to strike back before the entire team collapses. Nice to see that a MUST HAVE model has been built into the Teknes.

  10. #10

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    Ok, here is a quick question Swan (and everybody else) have you tried playing with the new cards and rules?

  11. #11

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    Well, since we have not received new rules, it would be hard to play with them. Without the updated motivations, all we really have is straight up combat. If you are asking have we put models on the table and rolled dice to determine how straight up combat runs, then yes, I have played. And true to form, except for a run of bad dice once, the Union worker always gets hit first, and always loses the exchange.

  12. #12

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    Yikes!

    I guess it is a good thing I like the looks of the models for this faction.

    I'm hoping that it isn't as bad as all this though too, of course!

  13. #13

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    Teknes faction is actually the one that seems to suffer more and it is a real shame, in partcolare The union workers are among the most interesting miniatures and special but they look REALLY useless than the others mentioned above, I honestly hope you will be able to do something about , it would be really sad if a game just born like this prevent you from playing such beautiful models to the rules unbalanced (BEH anyway good luck with your work I'll keep my fingers crossed hoping for you to review some cards of this beautiful faction) I hope have not offended anyone I just wanted to speak my mind on this topic!

  14. #14

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    Well, hopefully the rules aren't set in stone yet, and there's still time to listen to feedback/playtesters/etc.
    Nil nos tremefacit.

  15. #15

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    is already true, but the time is always an indomitable tyrant and must never lower our guard against it

  16. #16

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    I just wanted to express how awesome it is you guys are taking feedback and responding so quickly, thanks again.
    Last edited by glaciusi; 01-01-2014 at 03:14 PM. Reason: mispell

  17. #17

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    Agreed!

    Though I wouldn't mind hearing a few more Teknes Playtest veterans chiming in here and possibly confirming all this or offering differing views/opinions too!
    Nil nos tremefacit.

  18. #18

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    I am with you 100% on that sentiment. I would love to hear from the Teknes vets at CMoN about strategies or anything else I might not be seeing. I really really want to love this faction. The Union worker models were the reason I got into this game, and convinced many others to do the same. All we have heard from so far is Mr. Black and he is an admitted Hadros / Nasier fan. Where is the Teknes champion's insight on this faction. Please let me know what it is that I am missing that gives this force an equal standing to the others.

  19. #19

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    I think that Teknes needs the most work out of the factions. I can see the ideas that the creators are exploring with the house, but I think that they aren't quite where they need to be. In most games being the 'I take it on the chin and hit back' faction is always the hardest to balance as they still need to be killable by the opponent and have to hit back hard enough to make taking the first strike worth it.

    I don't lament the loss of the moving wounds around the Union Workers, it was a silly ability that ground the fast pace of the game down to a crawl and frustrated the opponent even when they did well. I think that the rebalancing of the Workers damage chart deserves some consideration, they went from almost always dying to an enemy attack to only dying on a 9 or 10, which seems not too terrible when I look at it. They have very little offensive output, even after being hit though, what I'd like to see is when they go pain fueled getting a more powerful benefit, perhaps gaining a reaction attack. I don't think they are overtly bad, just not quite where they need to be yet.

    I personally like the Linemen, but think they need a little more work as well. The Controller's Inspiration is somewhat uninspiring, being able to perform rescue after sprinting isn't that great an ability. Their reaction only triggering on a 1-3 when attacked means they still want to take the regular melee attack even though it is underwhelming to try and get the piece trading going in the right direction.

    Oh Zaalak how I want to love thee. I love the idea of the suicide cephalopod, I just wonder if it's really going to work better than it looks on paper. I think swapping the wounds and resilience needs to be tested before shooting it down, but even if it does what it wants to I don't think the effect is equal to being a specialist. Comparing it to the other faction specialists is a little sad, its Aura is powerful, but I don't think it is equally powerful to say the Nasier Rathor or the Goritsi Scourge Hound. I'm eager to hear some success stories about this thing. The game I saw in the last rules rendition it died before ever getting near the enemy leader and only killed one infantry in return.

    The Galvanic Defender does offer a ranged attack, and I think compares favorably with its magic oriented counterparts in other factions, the Deep Caller in Hadross for example serves a similar role and I think the Defender doesn't compare unfavorably.

    So I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing about these guys on the table to see where my assumptions are right and wrong.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    I am with you 100% on that sentiment. I would love to hear from the Teknes vets at CMoN about strategies or anything else I might not be seeing. I really really want to love this faction. The Union worker models were the reason I got into this game, and convinced many others to do the same. All we have heard from so far is Mr. Black and he is an admitted Hadros / Nasier fan. Where is the Teknes champion's insight on this faction. Please let me know what it is that I am missing that gives this force an equal standing to the others.
    Yeah, same here.

    THIS is the faction that got my into Wrath of Kings. I love the look of a lot of their models, and I'm going to be sticking with them but... I'd be OK if they were more than mediocre on the battlefield too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender_101 View Post
    I think that Teknes needs the most work out of the factions. I can see the ideas that the creators are exploring with the house, but I think that they aren't quite where they need to be. In most games being the 'I take it on the chin and hit back' faction is always the hardest to balance as they still need to be killable by the opponent and have to hit back hard enough to make taking the first strike worth it.

    [Edit]

    So I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing about these guys on the table to see where my assumptions are right and wrong.
    Thanks for that summary Ender - I'd love to hear that the creators are aware of these shortcomings and are still working on getting them 'right'?
    Nil nos tremefacit.

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