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  1. #1

    Default Weekend Battle Report

    Played a skirmish this weekend with the new cards, no motivations, just straight up combat. Forced were

    Teknes
    2 Union Bosses
    1 Lineman Defender Controller
    13 Union Workers
    5 Linemen Defenders
    1 C.A.G.E.
    2 Zaalak

    Goritsi
    1 Herald of Blood
    1 Dancing Master
    18 War Dancers
    2 Shield Breakers
    1 Gregorio Don Sissora


    Things we found and questions that came up:

    For the Teknes, the saving grace of the force were the specialists, which accounted for the first blood, and slowed the inevitable onslaught. The C.A.G.E. lived long enough for a single attack, but that attack killed 5 War Dancers and put 2 wounds on the Dancing Master (and failed to hurt the Shield Breaker). Suppression kicked in and actually caused 2 of the kills. Zaalaks were responsible for 1 kill each.

    Pain fueled Workers are very frightening, they rampaged and killed Gregoria Don Sissora in a single volley (though it was a volley of 4 angry Union Workers). The workers also managed to eliminate both Shield breakers.

    Basically we found that the War Dancers are a hard counter to the Teknes if the Teknes do not bring an Ironward. Being able to avoid reactions is very brutal to the Teknes. Having the Wardancers leaping across Zaalaks and the C.A.G.E. and the defenders with no chance of Unleashed, Counter Attack or Galvanic Backlash triggering is frustrating. Probably should have brought the defenders instead and sniped the dancers.

    Rank 1 Specialists, while nifty, do not last long against Rank 1 infantry. The Zaalaks got 1 kill each, one shield breaker wounded a C.A.G.E. and took down 1 worker, the other failed to get a kill. Against units without 2 dice of attack, they would have fared much better.

    Herald of Blood’s inspiration is fantastic, it allowed the War Dancers to position their targets to get the best use out of their Deadly Flourish. The Herald’s Training seemed, and really had no impact on the game. Either the troops started outside the Aura, or if they started inside, the model with the aura was generally the one being attacked. There was only one instance where this had an impact.

    Question on timing of events: If a Dancing Master activates with some wardancers can the Dance Master use Come Hither to draw an opponent forward and then have the War Dancers use their Deadly Flourish? If so, this becomes a fantastic way to draw out leaders and specialists for a quick kill.

    We also found that no matter how easy a War Dancer is to kill, you cannot kill them all, and their Deadly Flourish becomes incredibly deadly. When you get stuck into the battle, there just is no way to avoid Deadly Flourish hitting, and with the Herald of Bloods inspire, the Dancers will easily get to hit 2-3 enemy models each flourish. One activation of Dancer’s killed 5 workers and 4 Defenders. (Granted there were 7 Dancers in that activation, but each model was being hit by a 4 dice attack.)

    Question on Gregorio: His Winged Cleaver attack says that it targets every enemy model in 2”. So, if there were 3 targets, would you roll once and apply the result to each target, or would you roll 3 attacks, one per target?

    We discussed methods to mitigate the War Dancers Flourish (which BTW, the Dance Masters final attack killed 1 Unharmed worker, 1 Pain Fueled Worker and the Union boss, getting 3, 3 die attacks is brutal). So, while the ability is called leap, it is more of a pass through, so if you had your troops with their back to a wall (impassable terrain), or even rough 2 terrain, then the Dancers could not flourish since they would not have enough movement to get beyond the unit they want to attack. Terrain of any type is helpful (though the Herald of Blood’s inspiration will help to mitigate this impact).

    Question on Offensive Expertise: If 3 pain fueled Workers attack a single model, and all are in base contact with another worker, and they were inspired by the Union boss, would they roll 6 dice, and get 3 re-rolls? This is what we assumed.

    How do you work out the War Dancers attacks? Basically is you have 3 War Dancers flourishing 5 Defender Linemen, do you move each War Dancer their 4 inches and see how many attacks would hit each Defender and then roll them? For example, if 2 different War Dancers cross the same defender do you move them all and then make a 4 die attack on the defender? (This was the way that we played it). Does the War Dancers get to choose the order to resolve the attacks? For most instances this won’t matter, but for some it definitely has an impact; such as:

    If the Teknes had the Ironward, and we had the same situation, how do we work this out. I assume the the Dancers would choose their first target, if it dies, then the Teknes would get a free strike on the Dancer of their choice (assuming they meet the Ironwards training criteria). If they eliminate that Dancer, then you would remove any further attacks that she would have made, reducing the # of dice added if she and another Dancer were “leaping” over the same model. Then this would be repeated on a model for model basis until all models had attacked. If it works out some other way, could you please explain how this interaction works.

    BTW, if anyone is interested, game ended with Goritsi having 2 Moral and Teknes with 0.

  2. #2

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    First of all, thanks so much for the gameplay report Swan! I've been looking for more of these, particularly ones including Teknes or Goritsi, and you have BOTH!

    In regards to your questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    Question on timing of events: If a Dancing Master activates with some wardancers can the Dance Master use Come Hither to draw an opponent forward and then have the War Dancers use their Deadly Flourish?
    Yes, the Dance Master can use Come Hither to draw opponents into the Deadly Flourish of the dancers. WoK uses the "everyone moves, then everyone takes an action" (or vice verse) system does it not? So the Dance Master uses Come Hither, then each of the dancers get to take their action one by one, Deadly Flourish in this case. Here's the text from the rulebook:

    After selecting all the models that will activate, the active player chooses which stage to perform first, maneuver or
    act. All models in a combined activation resolve each stage
    together. So, if you choose maneuver first, all combining
    models will maneuver, and once finished they will then
    all act.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    Question on Gregorio: His Winged Cleaver attack says that it targets every enemy model in 2”. So, if there were 3 targets, would you roll once and apply the result to each target, or would you roll 3 attacks, one per target?
    I would assume the one roll applies to each valid target. Roll once, apply the results to all 3 targets. This is usually for simplicity. I always have an "inner conflict" with myself when it comes to area of effect abilities in games. If you take a giant sword and spin in a circle hitting 3 different people, it's unlikely that each of them will take the same amount of damage (loss of weight/momentum, time to brace, etc). In that scenario, it makes sense that you would roll separately for each target. I wouldn't be surprised either way to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    Question on Offensive Expertise: If 3 pain fueled Workers attack a single model, and all are in base contact with another worker, and they were inspired by the Union boss, would they roll 6 dice, and get 3 re-rolls?
    Yep, each Union Worker rolls two dice (6 total), and each one gets a re-roll (3 total).

    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    How do you work out the War Dancers attacks? Basically is you have 3 War Dancers flourishing 5 Defender Linemen, do you move each War Dancer their 4 inches and see how many attacks would hit each Defender and then roll them? For example, if 2 different War Dancers cross the same defender do you move them all and then make a 4 die attack on the defender? (This was the way that we played it). Does the War Dancers get to choose the order to resolve the attacks? For most instances this won’t matter, but for some it definitely has an impact; such as:

    If the Teknes had the Ironward, and we had the same situation, how do we work this out. I assume the the Dancers would choose their first target, if it dies, then the Teknes would get a free strike on the Dancer of their choice (assuming they meet the Ironwards training criteria). If they eliminate that Dancer, then you would remove any further attacks that she would have made, reducing the # of dice added if she and another Dancer were “leaping” over the same model. Then this would be repeated on a model for model basis until all models had attacked. If it works out some other way, could you please explain how this interaction works.
    Check out the text from the rulebook I posted above. You move the War Dancer their 4" for the flourish then resolve the damage on those targets. If a target dies here, and Teknes has the Ironward, they make their counter right now. Then move on to the next dancer.


    I haven't had the time to play with them myself, but I believe most troops can "defend" against the war dancers by using proper spacing a positioning. The dancers must be able to land on the other side of the leap without overlapping any bases. If troops are bundled together it may be difficult to pull off multiple flourishes. Come Hither not included! Overall I am very happy with the changes made to both Teknes and Goritsi. If anyone else has some game play experiences with either of these two factions PLEASE post them for all to read!

    EDIT: You mentioned that the saving grace for Teknes were the specialists, but from reading your battle details, they seemed to be kind of underwhelming (minus maybe the big hit from C.A.G.E, which I would expect from a R2 monster). Did I miss something?
    Last edited by Xavarir; 01-13-2014 at 03:06 PM.

  3. #3

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    I would agree about the positioning factor a distance of just 20mm from each mini prevents a model from jumping over both.


    This ceases to matter though once the herald of bloods inspire ability lets your opponent completely clump up your army before they jump over you.


    That is the real terror. I don't know what to do vs it other hope I can nuke her before too much damage happens.

  4. #4

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    Trex has the gist of it. It was truly the Herald's inspire that caused the most damage, since they got to position the Teknes in the best possible position to make their assault. Had it not been for that, the Teknes was positioned to stop the War Dancers from getting a multiple attack on anyone but the two on one end (since the other side was anchored by a wall). Pushing the Teknes into a nice tight group before the flourish basically eliminated the squad.

    Duke - I think you are misreading the Group activation rule. Your entire group either chooses to take an action first, or to move first. You cannot have some maneuver while others take an action.

  5. #5

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    Swan: Oops - you are absolutely right. It's been a while since I read it. So, with that in mind as written I don't think the Dancing Master could pull a leader out using Come Hither for it to immediately be attacked by the War Dancers. Not until the next Activation would be my guess.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke_bonez View Post
    Swan: Oops - you are absolutely right. It's been a while since I read it. So, with that in mind as written I don't think the Dancing Master could pull a leader out using Come Hither for it to immediately be attacked by the War Dancers. Not until the next Activation would be my guess.
    It depends. The Dance Master can use Come Hither to pull a target, but then the War Dancers can ONLY use Deadly Flourish. This is because every unit in the activation must take the same action (maneuver or act), act in this case, at the same time.

    The Dance Master can not pull with Come Hither then have the War Dancers move and use Deadly Flourish.
    Last edited by Xavarir; 01-13-2014 at 06:40 PM.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavarir View Post
    EDIT: You mentioned that the saving grace for Teknes were the specialists, but from reading your battle details, they seemed to be kind of underwhelming (minus maybe the big hit from C.A.G.E, which I would expect from a R2 monster). Did I miss something?
    No, you didn't miss anything, it was the fact that they eliminated 7 models before the Goritsi had a chance for a return strike (though to be honest, the fact that the Dance Masters come hither only pulled the C.A.G.E. 3" forward). Starting out with only 2/3rds of his infantry put a dent the Goritsi plan. Had the specialists not accomplished this, then life would have been real interesting. Still think that the Zaalak's unleash ability should have triggered when he got killed. Stupid Flourish

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    No, you didn't miss anything, it was the fact that they eliminated 7 models before the Goritsi had a chance for a return strike (though to be honest, the fact that the Dance Masters come hither only pulled the C.A.G.E. 3" forward). Starting out with only 2/3rds of his infantry put a dent the Goritsi plan. Had the specialists not accomplished this, then life would have been real interesting. Still think that the Zaalak's unleash ability should have triggered when he got killed. Stupid Flourish

    So we know what kind of shenanigans/damage you can do with the War Dancers. What about the Union Workers/Linesmen? Any information on how those played out?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavarir View Post
    So we know what kind of shenanigans/damage you can do with the War Dancers. What about the Union Workers/Linesmen? Any information on how those played out?
    Linemen did not get a fair shake, since they were butchered by bouncing babes, and never got to use their Counter Attack. Like I say, the War Dancers are a hard counter to the Teknes, they just lose their main advantage, and that is to hit back when they get hit. Add to that the fact that their Follow Through gave no benefit against the War Dancers, and the Linemen did not really get a fair test run. We are setting up a Teknes vs Skorza match, that will give us a better feel for the linemen (though it will be iffy getting hit with 2 dice each attack).

    Union workers re unique. Since they can only wound themselves when they activate with the Union Boss, it limits how many can fuel up a turn. Their Unstoppable really never came into play since they were always hitting with two dice and a re-roll anyways. Again, against the Skorza this will definitely come in handy. The Extra inch of move for Pain Fueled made the difference between the workers eliminating a model. The Union workers made short work of both Shield Breakers and Gregorio Don Sissora. Nothing fancy, just straight up stacking a handful of dice and watching those specialists disappear in a single attack. As a unit they are just your standard wall of beef, unfortunately they were stuck in the meat grinder of deadly flourish. I like the unit, and they killed their worth in enemy units (4 ranks of specialists, and a couple of War Dancers). As a base unit, they are solid, and I do not feel like they are under powered, but I don't think that there are many units out there that will stand up well to the current Goritsi units.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    Linemen did not get a fair shake, since they were butchered by bouncing babes, and never got to use their Counter Attack. Like I say, the War Dancers are a hard counter to the Teknes, they just lose their main advantage, and that is to hit back when they get hit. Add to that the fact that their Follow Through gave no benefit against the War Dancers, and the Linemen did not really get a fair test run. We are setting up a Teknes vs Skorza match, that will give us a better feel for the linemen (though it will be iffy getting hit with 2 dice each attack).

    Union workers re unique. Since they can only wound themselves when they activate with the Union Boss, it limits how many can fuel up a turn. Their Unstoppable really never came into play since they were always hitting with two dice and a re-roll anyways. Again, against the Skorza this will definitely come in handy. The Extra inch of move for Pain Fueled made the difference between the workers eliminating a model. The Union workers made short work of both Shield Breakers and Gregorio Don Sissora. Nothing fancy, just straight up stacking a handful of dice and watching those specialists disappear in a single attack. As a unit they are just your standard wall of beef, unfortunately they were stuck in the meat grinder of deadly flourish. I like the unit, and they killed their worth in enemy units (4 ranks of specialists, and a couple of War Dancers). As a base unit, they are solid, and I do not feel like they are under powered, but I don't think that there are many units out there that will stand up well to the current Goritsi units.
    The more I think about it, the more confused I am as to how the War Dancers were so easily able to chew through an entire army. I think that with decent positioning the Teknes lines should have been able to hold against the assault of War Dancers. In order to use Deadly Flourish they need to be unengaged and must move 4" in a straight line. For the sake of being stubborn, say the War Dancer starts 1mm from a Union Worker and every other Union Worker nearby is 29mm from the first. The first inch is clearing the Union Worker (30mm). She can't land in between because her base won't fit (29mm). She has to clear the second worker (30mm), and JUST has enough to land on the other side (30mm) in contact with the second Union Worker. If any other unit, or impassable terrain, is nearby (at 29mm of course!) she can't land. So if a Teknes army is grouped up with everyone 29mm apart what are the War Dancers to do? And I think it's safe to say that any War Dancers that did manage to get kills in would surely be dead next activation. It is likely to that these War Dancers are now VERY far away from a leader if they were abusing their 9" threat range.

    In addition, the Linesmen have only a 30% (40% with the Dance Master's inspire?) chance to be hit by the Deadly Flourish. The Union Workers have a 50% (60% with the Dance Master's inspire?) chance and are required to be hit twice. It is likely that you would have to spend more than one War Dancer to kill a single unit (with proper Teknes positioning). You mentioned that in one activation 7 War Dancer's killed 9 Teknes troops. I would certainly expect a number of causalities from a huge 7 unit activation but surely these 7 War Dancers are now miles away from a leader and are sitting ducks.

    It's a shame that the Zaalaks reaction is countered by the Deadly Flourish but it's Abomination aura does wonders in stifling combined activations. Even so, it would take a minimum of 2 Deadly Flourishes to kill which would likely endanger both War Dancers.

    In the end I'm a little concerned that multiple people are having similar experiences with the War Dancers. It seems that they may be a bit overwhelming? It also troubles me that an entire faction can essentially be "countered" (realistically they are just at a huge disadvantage) to a single infantry group of another faction. A lot of Teknes have the reaction abilities which are completely nullified with the Deadly Flourish. If I am playing Teknes and am about to play vs a Goritsi team, how do I plan for stacking War Dancers? Likely it is some combination of Galvanic Defenders to snipe War Dancers and The Ironward to slaughter them when they land after killing a friendly unit.

    I look forward to reading your next battle log! These are the two factions I have ordered for myself and I love seeing others experiences with them! Thanks again Swan!

  11. #11

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    Awesome! I second the timing questions.

    As I understand it, in the case of multiple Deadly Flourishes: all of the War Dancers would make the movement portion of this ability before any attacks are rolled, each one will assign 2 dice to whichever enemy model they passed through. Once all the dice are assigned each attack is rolled separately (e.g. if two Dancers passed through 1 Union Worker, you would roll 4 dice against that Union Worker).

    As I understand it, in the case of Ironward: all of the War Dancers would finish their attacks first before the Ironward's ability could kick in since for a combined activation all the activated models should be acting at the "same" time.

    ----

    Union Boss's Inspire & Offensive Expertise: I'm not sure actually. If three models with Offensive Expertise(1) attack the same target, their attacks get combined and only the highest value Offensive Expertise is used (1) and the attacker only gets to re-roll 1 die in that attack. However, since the Union Boss's Inspire specifically states that they gain Offensive Expertise(+1) it could be taken to mean that it is cumulative. Not sure.
    Last edited by duke_bonez; 01-13-2014 at 04:01 PM. Reason: removed because it's wrong.

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