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  1. #1

    Default I need your feedback

    Hi everyone,

    I shared my works in the gallery of CMON for 1 year. Post my minis, and see which rating is then awarded is enough exitant and motivating at fist. But to rate doesn't tell how to improve, and I don't really see an evolution with this rating system. That's why I come to look for your critics to have a constructive feedback, specially my last two works :

    http://www.coolminiornot.com/348923



    http://www.coolminiornot.com/348812




    Of course, if you have remarks on my other works, I would read them with pleasure. Thanks for reading, I await with impatience your comments !
    Last edited by Kallfa; 01-13-2014 at 06:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Freak! Demihuman's Avatar
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    Hi Kallfa! These looks pretty good to me. On the squigs I think I might try to do some lighter highlights especially around the eyes and ears and maybe some small intense shadows in the cracks. With the Ork Warriors I think I would try to a highlight on that dark red. Maybe even all the way to a tan color. I have a photoshopped example for you but I am having trouble uploading it. I will send it along later.

  3. #3

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    Yep they look great but it looks like you are suffering from what we all fear at first. adding more contrast. I agree to push the darks on the squigs deeper and the highlights up a bit more in places. The orks could use more highlights as i really like the dark tones on the red and the skin is nice too, but could come up a bit with some lighter tones! Solid work none the less!
    "Remember, you can't spell paint without a little pain."

    Blog: almostperftec.blogspot.ca
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  4. #4
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    Okay here is what I am talking about. A little at least. The one on the right is yours the one on the left is photoshopped a little just to make some of the sharper high lights brighter and put some defining shadows into the cracks. The arrow points to that knee that I think looks really great. Also that knee is brighter than most of the face this draws attention away from the face. Since faces are usually more interesting than knees it is a no-no.


    Name:  2quigs.jpg
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    I hope this helps a little. This isn't going to start getting you 10's though. For that you need to also work on fancy basing and composition and really great painting too. Plus photograghy and havign paintign an awesome or sexy mini helps too.


  5. #5

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    Thanks a lot Demihuman and Zab ! The photoshop picture helps me to understand what is missing. I would apply your advice as soon as possible.

  6. #6

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    Hey Kallfa, I really like what you've done with the squigs. The shadows and highlights are well placed and the transitions look good. I'd think they deserve a higher score than you got. As demihuman and zab have said, they could probably benefit with a little more highlighting just to make them pop a bit more. Another thing that can help with the score is to work in color variation in the squigs skin. Instead of just shades of pink work in blues or purples or whatever might look neat. As an example, take a look at this one from 10 ball:
    http://www.coolminiornot.com/333597?browseid=7849618
    Now, keep in mind that total score is for the squig and the orc. Which brings me to my next point.... even an amazingly painted squig is going to have a hard time scoring better than an 8. If you add more to the scene like a rider or a scenic base (as opposed to just the gaming base), then you have more to work with and the potential for a high score goes up. Here's another example from Mrika:
    http://www.coolminiornot.com/337979?browseid=7849618
    In my opinion your squigs look as good if not better than Mrika's. But her score is based on the whole diorama and especially the painting on Valten with all that freehand and NMM. With all the amazing work out there, getting scores of 8 and above on this site really takes something special.

    All that applies to the orcs as well. Orcs can be tough.... you want more contrast in the armor, it looks a little flat in the whole unit picture. But they're orcs, so it shouldn't be bright and shiny. Again, take a look at 10 ball's work. The metals on the orc show some really nice weathering plus freehand details with the checkerboard patterns and skulls. Also look at the variations in the skin color. Not just green but he's worked in oranges and blues in various places. That's a skill I'm trying to learn, but once you do it can help turn a good figure into a really good one.

    Just keep in mind what you're trying to do. If your goal is to get high scores then try doing a display figure. Pick one that has plenty of detail, perhaps a chance for freehand or NMM and give it a nice display base. If your goal is to paint gaming figures, then don't worry so much about the score. Maybe others will disagree, but I'd say a well done figure on a gaming base (without any spectacular freehand, NMM, OSL, etc) is going to get around an 8. Which means 6's are not bad scores and anything about 7 is really good.

  7. #7

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    Thanks for having taken time to answer. I had already seen the works of 10 ball and Mrika, it's true that they are a great source of inspiration. For my black orcs, I think that there is a problem with the photo, because the contrast is not the same in reality, but it's another question. My recipe is the following one : for their armors, I made with an airbrush a layer of red dark then of lively red on a black layer, then I applied a washing of brown ink. These stages were realized by respecting the principle of the zenithal light. Squigs was painted according to the same principle, by adding some lighting effects and some glacis of red or sepia ink.

    My goal is to paint gaming figures, but I target a ratting between 7 and 8. I take into account your advices. At the moment, I am painting another squig, and I already see a difference with the precedents. I would soon post a photo.

  8. #8

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    Here is the third squig. I tried to follow your suggestions, by marking more shadows and lights to have more contrast :



    The photo will be soon in my gallery for those who want to rate this work.

  9. #9
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    Oh cool! I think it pops a little more. I am interested to see if you will get a better score.

  10. #10

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    Wow, that turned out nice!
    "Remember, you can't spell paint without a little pain."

    Blog: almostperftec.blogspot.ca
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  11. #11

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    Really good job but try to get those light blues in there like what Bailey referred to ten balls Orc walkin da squig where your mid tone would be put a mid toned light blurpe glazes in there and you'll see how much better more and diff color transitions work on the eyes of the viewer ! It's aesthetically pleasing to see many colors of the spectrum in a glance . Ever wonder why rainbows are so darn great to view. Think bout it . But the third squig is your best one.

  12. #12

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    Thanks everyone. The rating is a little better for the moment. More important, I understood the principle, so thanks again for your advices. The next time, I would try to put other colours and work on variations, as Bailey03 and BloodASmedium suggested it. But soon that risks to be difficult, because I have a moving to make this weekend. As soon as possible, I work again on it!

  13. #13

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    First off its a major change in your painting imediatley for the better! A few rules of thumb shade(with cool colors , purples ,blues excetera) these can be of the compliments to a color for even more aesthetics. Then when highlighting( use warm colors( not so much yellows but beige or bone.) and to learn the subject of zenithal lighting ,boyzie gave me this link. It helps so much and is the best diagram I can give http://www.mainlymedieval.com/ozpainters! After your mood get ready to unleash some new results with these new weapons of information! Your painting is good and can only get better kallfa! You do very good work bud!

  14. #14

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    Thats pretty nice

    The color scheme for the squiggs is nice and more subtle than the classic red.
    And yet I think there could be a little touch of saturation somewhere too bring nice contrast to the eye, because it seems all non-saturated.

    Cheers,
    Karun

  15. #15

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    The last squig is in my eyes somewhere between 7 and 8 good transition between colurs. I would perhaps have worked to have the mouth behind the teeth´s not totally black but a mixture of colours. Also to have better photo´s and get pictures a little closer to the subject might increase the grading i believe.

    Also as Bailey03 points to is to add extra colour variations into the skin. I belive that you have uused purple/blue into the shadows, you could also go with an totally diffrent colour for the "elbows" and knuckles, nose and so on to give it even more life.

    But as you are aiming for gamingstandard it is very nice.

    /Kretcher
    work is boring when it gets in the way of my painting.

  16. #16

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    I think your work is very, very good. I like the subtle tones of the first squigs, and I think it makes them more "realistic". Although the second attempt does have more contrast and would probably score slightly better, it is a little more "cartoonish".

    The differences made me think of this article at Arcane Paintworks... a discussion of styles.

    Scores are only representative of your painting skills up to 8 or so. After that, it's the model you've chosen (and amount of detail/difficulty), the basing/scenery and the photography. I doubt anyone could score a 10 with a squig on a standard gaming base.

  17. #17

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    Thanks everyone, It's encouraging and instructive. I ended my moving, and I have again a connection. But I have less time to paint with my job. I would post here my next work as soon as possible.

  18. #18

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    Here are a couple of great articles about contrast. Part 2 (particularly the part about saturation) seems relevant to this thread and may provide food for thought.

    Darkmessiah Guide to Contrast Part I
    Darkmessiah Guide to Contrast Part II

  19. #19

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    Indeed it is funny to estimate the various styles according to continents, it's a great source of inspiration, thanks !

    Here is another squig, I tried to put more colour variations on the skin :



    Sorry for the bad quality of photos, the camera which I use is not great.
    Last edited by Kallfa; 01-31-2014 at 12:22 PM.

  20. #20

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    Wow you have taken all this info and have converted it into skills great job.
    Be carful of the knee, its almost as bright at the face. Great purple on the under belly too, good contrast on the feet also improvment is huge from previous

    Next tip is when you want something to stand out add more contrast. To make a focal point black and white extreme highlights, I found a good tute racking my brains to remember where, basically it was your focal point has an unrealistic highlights emphasising the focal point. Hey its not natural but at this scale and being fantasy you can push past realisim. Instead have a look at this clown from 10Balls WIP(Zab mawhahaha you cant escape)

    Everything is much lighter in the face the highlights are pure white the colour tone is lighter than the hands and the Darks are just as dark but look much darker due to the lightness. Most of all Have fun!
    PS I like your base too, what are the tufts of grass made from?

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