We don’t need no stinkin’ tiles!
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Thread: We don’t need no stinkin’ tiles!

  1. #1

    Default We don’t need no stinkin’ tiles!

    I just posted this in the blog and thought I'd share it here as well.
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    Mostly just wanted to show you all that Bill and I have been working on the tabletop rules and we've got something that feels really fun, is true to the board game but lets you run your troops around on whatever surface you want (I'm picturing that insanely cool table steamcrow has made).....


    Do my eyes deceive me? Are those Rivets moving about on a tabletop without a grided tile to guide them? How can this be?

    It’s true. We’ve been diving into the tabletop rules. During the kickstarter campaign the idea was thrown about to create some tabletop rules for Rivet Wars. Although designed as a board game we all thought tabletop rules made a lot of sense. Seeing as how well the minis were coming out we felt it’d be fun to mix things up and play with all your troops massed out on a table, especially if you had a nice tabletop already detailed out for other games.
    To move forward with this plan we realized there’d be a lot of work but we wanted to make this happen in a timely manner so we decided to attack the challenge in a two phase plane. Phase I is designed to create rules that use the same stats as the board game and don’t add a lot more complexity to the game. We also wanted to retain much of the game feel. But there will be some differences like being able to build an army that your bring to the table and terrain providing cover as well as affecting troop movement beyond the duckboards.
    Phase II would be a much more complex system. But we may find that as Phase I grows and changes over time we may no longer need a phase II.
    So we just wanted to let you all know that we are working away on this. This won’t distract us from our other plans but we think it’s an important aspect we want to explore with the community and it’s really fun to just cut loose your monowheels across a tabletop. We hope you guys find this as exciting as we do. It’s just another way to Get in the Fight!

    link to the post - http://rivetwars.com/2014/02/23/we-d...stinkin-tiles/

  2. #2

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    As an old school tabletopper this is fantastic news!

  3. #3

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    Looking forward to this, with the amount of models I've got coming it's actually needed to use them all. One immediate observation though, you will need a method to reduce casualties such as a saving throw as the models die to quick without the RTS element to the game.

  4. #4

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    I've never considered myself much of a tabletop mini guy. You wouldn't be able to tell that with the amount of plastic I've got coming my way this year. Seeing as I just lost half of my tiles at a show (a near empty box went missing. Tiles cards and rules, No Minis! Thanks Mini-Case!) this seems to have impeccable timing. Looking forward to it.

  5. #5

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    Also, for some reason miniatures board games are often not accepted amongst many wargamers, hatred would not go too far in describing the reactions I have seen by gamers just because you don't use a tape measure, so if they can get over the cutesy theme it might be possible to punt the game to another audience. I'm glad the current stat cards are staying the same as I feel that is why Dust Warfare did not take off as well as it should, units were no longer recognisable with the stat and rules changes fro the transition from Dust Tactics. One more thing, please chuck me over a copy of the playtest rules

  6. #6

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    WTF Gamer, sorry you fell victim to the ever light fingered so and so's who attend shows - thankfully no minis though.

    Tabletop rules wil be a good way to attract more people into the Rivets world but maybe at the price of having to confront the ever present demon of the "rules lawyers".

    Playing non grid means that the tactical placement of units in grids, something we find more and more important as we get experience with the game cannot be there so as Hithero says saving throws will be important.

    However I see the main sticking point will be the use of the tabletop itself. No respectable wargamer will want a plain flat table, so terrain will be placed on it. In a boardgame governed by grids then Line of Sight is relatively easy tio define, but on a tabletop.... this is generally where most disputes take place (aaprt from he infamous shuffle, move the front pice then everyone including the one og the back move to that point). Thankfully for now RW minis are not customisable so potentially a 50% rule may be fine - you must be able to see at least 50% of a model to fire on it. Another alternative is the (IMO) elegant mechanic from Deadzone/Mars attacks in that you only get a firing bonus if you can see the entire mini. Either way I hope we get clear rules on this.

    Either way if we can get to Western Front with rules for building etc then this is something else we can look forward to.

    Ted, I know this is only at an early stage and this is your project/baby but is this perhaps something that can be thrown open to the community to help create? You have already seen there is a enthusiastic and creative community here so it might be something to consider? A couple of years ago Jervis Johnston (GW) did something similar when he was developing the Epic Armageddon rules and the result was arguably on of the best sets of rules GW have ever produced.

  7. #7

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    Yes, so awesome. Can't wait to how the rules turn out.

    I do hope you are still incorporating the cards into the game. I think the action cards could be used MTG style, where you have 5 or so in your hand.

    With some selective removals, you could also use the secret mission cards to actually make the tabletop version mission based still, instead of just kill the other side. Plus, this way your opponent doesn't know what your mission is to win the game...This could make the game very good, especially once all the RW plastic terrain shows up. The bunkers could provide cover and save bonuses. Minefields, wire obstacles, tank traps. This will make the tabletop aspect pretty fun!

    **I knew I bought 4 extra tanks for a reason!**

  8. #8

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    Not to hijack Ted's announcement. @WTFGamer pm me what you lost at the show, I will have customer service send you replacement monday, ok?

    You absolutely cannot be punished for going to a show and helping us spread the word!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by borg View Post
    I will have customer service send you replacement monday, ok?

    You absolutely cannot be punished for going to a show and helping us spread the word!
    That is super awesome of you! I'm still checking with the Hotel and the Orccon officials for a Lost and Found possibility. I was wrangling so much stuff it's possible it was just left under a table. And since there were no minis, I'd hope something like that just gets turned in. I'm a 2X guy so I can still play the game luckily! I'll know more by the end of the day.

    Thanks for the kind words all.

    Getting back to the thread, I +1 the Deadzone line of site comment @willyc made. Assuming shot difficulty in the to hit calculation and granting a bonus for full visibility makes a lot of sense to me for trench warfare. A simple line of sight calculation will be appreciated.

    I don't see why the tactical order of units in a grid/group can't be preserved however. It just has to accommodate more than four units in a group going by the image Ted provides.

    Please don't forget to update us on stats for Wave 2. Even if they are beta, it would be nice to see!

  10. #10

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    Ooh ooh Borg, I went to the same show and misplaced Kelly brook, several jars of jelly and a small paddling pool, could you replace pleaaaaaassseeee?

  11. #11

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    First, Ted thank you many times over. I was hoping for a non-tile version of the game . That gives me a excuse to start making new terrain pieces. How about Beta testers? I have a collection of about ten gaming tables that nobody is using right now! I would be glad to help!

    Second, WTFGamer. Man what a bummer! I have run hundreds of games for clubs and conventions and never "lost" item. I sure hope this is not a trend. What worries me now a days are the exclusive figures you get through kick starters and such. Those might be an even great temptation and easier target for dishonest gamers. Good luck.
    Sky

  12. #12

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    I volunteer for Beta testing too, that would be great fun! I hope to see some tanks in there!

    Hm, that is a good question. If you bought extra tanks, do they come with the plug that goes with them?

    **Edited to add content**

    I agree with Steamcrow below, I'd like it remain fast paced. I would like to see it be small units or "squads", one squad moves, then the other player moves one squad. Not whole sides moving like GW. Fast paced rules that allow quick 45 min games or so, so that you could play a couple would be great. Also interested in the TT mission objectives, and how games can be ended. The TT environment screams for more action cards, as those will enhance tactics much more effectively.
    Last edited by Jaywato00; 02-23-2014 at 07:39 PM.

  13. #13

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    This is great news! I like that it's a totally optional system. You like the board game? Play as a board game.

    You into wargaming and terrain (like me), play it as a wargame.

    I'd really like to see the game remain fast-paced and quick - not getting bogged down too much in rules; I want to see the figures on the table move!

    So, yeah, I'm all for this!
    Last edited by steamcrow; 02-23-2014 at 06:10 PM.
    Check out more Steam Crow art here!

  14. #14

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    Excited to see these rules in action.

  15. #15

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    Haven't a clue what this is.
    Clearly it's not something I would play.
    But I'm all for you guys doing it
    The Pirate Deck - Now on Kickstarter
    http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardga...he-pirate-deck

  16. #16

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    Just from the one picture I have question beginning to boil up. In the board game a grid is 2x2 but the way the allied figures are placed it is a 2x3. So when doing a grid attack which ones are in the same grid?

    I notice that one of the allied units is not orthogonal to the table edge. Are there alternate facings in the TT version?

    Rather than a ruler why not grid templates for moving? If you use inches will we have to create all new unit cards?

    I see lots more questions popping up as well.
    Sky

  17. #17
    Senior Member blkdymnd's Avatar
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    This is fantastic news. The main reason I've played Dust Tactics and Warfare for many years already, is that you can play two different and absolutely great experiences with the same miniatures. Warfare really took off and probably equals the popularity of Tactics, because they were able to bring in two very different types of gamers and they bought the same sets of miniatures. So great news, looking forward to playing this in the hopefully not to distant future.

  18. #18

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    Spotted this on Facebook and looking forward to seeing how this pans out - I think most of the questions will be solved pretty quickly once a set of playtest rules appear

  19. #19

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    It's great to see all the enthusiasm for this! It's something that we've also been excited about for a long time but we didn't want to be distracted from finishing up core aspects of the game and deliveries.

    We want to keep as much of the spirit of the tile-based game alive so, for example, we have an idea for adapting the grid attack order system, and we want to make sure that Heroes still play an important role. But we're previewing this because we want YOUR involvement in developing the rules. So keep the ideas coming!

  20. #20

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    Well, I really want to help (read that be a Beta tester) but it is hard to react to just one picture.

    Besides what I stated above in my previous post, how are you defining no mans land demarcation point for adding plugs? Will buffs be limited by distance? Will chain attacks continue if the units a touching in a 2x3 grid, 2x4, 2x?? arrangement? With this type of terrain how will aircraft work / be placed or een stand up ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Podurgiel View Post
    It's great to see all the enthusiasm for this! It's something that we've also been excited about for a long time but we didn't want to be distracted from finishing up core aspects of the game and deliveries.

    We want to keep as much of the spirit of the tile-based game alive so, for example, we have an idea for adapting the grid attack order system, and we want to make sure that Heroes still play an important role. But we're previewing this because we want YOUR involvement in developing the rules. So keep the ideas coming!
    Sky

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