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Thread: CMON Contest 27 - Rivet Wars Painting Competition!

  1. #41

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    Rivet Wars Painting Contest Winners Announced!

    Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much for all of your entries for the Rivet Wars Painting Competition. We had 144 entries in total, making this one of the biggest painting competitions on CMON! And the contest with the overall highest quality entries! Great job guys!

    Congratulations to VIOLET, Biggls, BingoBongoDwarf, deltapilotguy, elTonioBerg, Mananarepublic, Maxpaint, NBond, Runcornlites, Skyle, and wickedwretch, all of whom had scores over 7.0 and will be receiving a Treasure Hunter!!

    For more details about the winners read the full article at CoolMiniorNot!

    http://www.coolminiornot.com/article...ners-announced

    The entries for the painting contest were amazing. I was blown away to see so many talented artists choose to take part in this Rivet Wars contest. I'd like to thank everyone for adding to the Rivet Wars world through their creativity and hard work. It was difficult to pick only one entry from so many great works.

  2. #42
    Brushlicker MightyChad's Avatar
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    Unless I missed some fine print, I have two entries over 7.0. I sent an email hopefully I didn't screw something up, I really want the Treasure Hunter!

  3. #43

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    Wow what the hell happened to the scores? There were way more scores above 7 at the contest end. Two of mine were above and now they are at 6.8. Feels really fishy and kind of crappy. I would really like to see the final tally results vs what was put up. I feel like someone went through and slashed everyone's scores. Really not happy about how this went down.

  4. #44

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    Hi guys, no doubt somone from CMoN can explain. But it seems slaverage score and final score are not the same thing. I recall this entry was the first 6.9 entry just a few days ago, however their final score is lower:

    http://www.coolminiornot.com/354290

    Their average is still 6.9. I assume the results are scaled based on the no. Entries or the scores of the best and worse entries to prevent everyone getting 7+ as an average.
    Rivet Wars Scenario Editor - http://www.tehill.net/RivetWars

  5. #45

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    I don't get the final score either. One of mine averaged 7.5 then got a final score of 6.4. That doesn't make any logical sense to me. I have emailed CMON for an explanation. It does seem all the voting was a waste of time if they decided the final scores.

  6. #46
    Brushlicker MightyChad's Avatar
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    Meh, I'm stupid, I was looking at my score in the gallery, my final score was much lower. Oh well. I hate I went out of my way to paint these when I should have painted something for Gencon, but at least my colors are worked out now!

  7. #47

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    Like I said, I dont think they are deciding the final scores - they have probably worked out using a distribution algorithm:

    eg: if the TOP average was 8.9, the Bottom score was 5.5, they would use the distribution to determine everyone's scores relative to one another.

    It's like the 8.9 would be given a 10 and the 5.5 would be given a 0 and everyone else in the middle would be scaled fairly, so an equal comparison has been made.

    Obviously, that example is not exactly what's happened. It may be like the crystal Brush award:
    50% of the score shall be determined on site by a panel of judges selected by CoolMiniOrNot and Adepticon. 50% of the score shall be determined by popular vote on CoolMiniOrNot.com.
    Rivet Wars Scenario Editor - http://www.tehill.net/RivetWars

  8. #48

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    The final score on the contest does seem lower than the actual scores, I will have a look at it.

  9. #49
    Brushlicker MightyChad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by borg View Post
    The final score on the contest does seem lower than the actual scores, I will have a look at it.
    Thank you. It just seems odd that a 7.4 becomes a 6.6.

  10. #50

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    That's indeed weird... all 3 of my entries have average scores above 7.0 (7.5, 7.4 and 7.2 to be exact). What happened? What exactly is the difference between "average score" and "final score"?



    I mean, if there's some sort of scaling going on, I think you should've mentioned that in the contest rules...

    Edit:
    Even weirder than that is the fact that sergentzimm's M2 Wolverine with an average 7.9 rating got a final rating of 6.8 while my Sturmpanzer with an average 7.5 rating got a 6.9 final rating? Shouldn't his final rating be higher than mine? This doesn't look right at all...
    Last edited by Laserschwert; 05-13-2014 at 08:35 AM.

  11. #51

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    In order to prevent envelope stuffing and score padding, competition scores are treated slightly different from just normal voting on the main CoolMiniOrNot site. Your competition score are compiled ONLY from registered users' votes, and if a registered user vote multiple times on the same entry, that scores will be counted only once with the average score. So if you vote 20 times on your own piece with a 10, it will only count once. I hope that clears up some of the confusion.

    And let me further illustrate with 3 examples that DID NOT make the 7.0 cut and yet have over 8.0 on the main site.

    Name:  votesample.jpg
Views: 246
Size:  28.6 KB

    As you can see, a normal voting pattern is a bell curve with most of the votes going what your actual score should be with the rest leveling off to either sides of it. But as you can see there is blatant cheating here on 3 pieces that is obviously a 7 on top and 5s on the bottom with a whole lot of 10s... that is why we have what we have in place.
    Last edited by borg; 05-13-2014 at 12:05 PM.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by borg View Post
    In order to prevent envelope stuffing and score padding, competition scores are treated slightly different from just normal voting on the main CoolMiniOrNot site. Your competition score are compiled ONLY from registered users' votes, and if a registered user vote multiple times on the same entry, that scores will be counted only once with the average score. So if you vote 20 times on your own piece with a 10, it will only count once. I hope that clears up some of the confusion.
    So this whole site is flawed? If I look at any of the normal painted pieces I shouldn't take any notice of the score because the person who painted it can increase their score by voting for themselves a 10 a hundred times. This then would then allow any sales via Ebay or other method using the score flawed as well. A good way to con potential buyers by saying it has a 10 rating on CMON.

  13. #53

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    Well, capavenger123456, I obviously cannot tell you everything that we have in place and what we do in regular maintenance to deal with bogus voting. But as a general rule, scores do not stabilize until you get to around 500 votes. You can pull up any of the top scoring pieces on CMON, and they are all well deserved.

  14. #54

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    bummer thought I was going to be getting a mini. I guess I should have just painted 1 mini really well instead of quickly painting my whole army to play the game. I still don't know where to find our final scores that are different from the ones posted with my profile.

  15. #55

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    Yep, also got a score of 8.1 that transformed into a 6.7 in its Final Score form.

    That just seems relatively weird.
    If that's a matter of only registered users counting, would that mean that registered CMON users gave me bad grades, and unregistered ones good votes ?

    Knowing I did not asked any friends to give me 10's (or any grade at all) nor did I voted for myself repeatedly, I'd be curious to see my own vote sample to see if I qualify for that "blatant cheating" pattern.

    If I may, I think "blatant cheating" might just have been some enthusiasts eager to give good grades to the participants and distributing 10's like candy. Shame is, if they give 10's "to be kind" and those 10's don't count, while those same people would have given an honest 7-8, it pretty much ruins the thing !

  16. #56

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    Maybe a better way to score this kind of contest is to start voting after ALL entries have been submitted. Then let each registered user vote for what they think are the five (or whatever number) best. Then take the top ten (or whatever number) vote getters as the winners. Simple, fair and clear cut.
    Sky

  17. #57

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    I think this contest has left a lot of people who entered very unhappy with CMON. All of us that entered and for nearly a month thought we were in with a chance of winning a figure because our scores were over 7, then when it ended about 80% of these people were then told "our voting system doesn't actually reflect the true vote" is just plain wrong. What is the point of showing the current vote if the final number is completely different? I will never enter a CMON painting competition again because I know I have no chance of winning anything after the final votes have been adjusted to stop lots of "winners" receiving anything.

  18. #58

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    now I feel bad. I voted many with tens based on the fact that I could NEVER paint like that. I never considered that if it disrupted the bell curve it would ruin there chances. Awww.....

    Yeah, I don't understand the voting bits. I felt so.... not worthy of voting? Sorry guys.
    ~Lieutenant Nathaniel Flint of the Landship Scorpios


  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by capavenger123456 View Post
    I will never enter a CMON painting competition again because I know I have no chance of winning anything after the final votes have been adjusted to stop lots of "winners" receiving anything.
    Even if it might sound whiney, I totally agree with this. Even if it's a "you got my hopes up and let me down" kind of feeling, I think it's fair to say that this kind of adjustment should have been made VERY clear in the competition rules. After all I would assume that a lot of the people who entered came to CMON through the Rivet Wars Kickstarter (I know I have), so you can't just assume that this kind of tallying can be taken for granted.

  20. #60

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    Wow. You create a competition which we enter in good faith having led us to believe the score system would be the same as the normal voting system. I score a 7.1 and a 7.0 for which I am very pleased. I have not inflated my vote by voting multiple times for myself. Then I come back a week later to find my scores have been down graded on account of hidden rules.

    considering this competition has brought in a large number of new users who would likely have never considered joining cmon, it is hardly surprising if there were an inflated number of 10s given out. As other users of this forum have mentioned, they had voted 10 on things they felt were completely beyond their reach, not based on the standards of the rest of your site. Now that is not the fault of the people who entered the competition. It is your fault, cmon, for not being clear about how final scores are calculated.

    I am disgusted by how this competition has been operated. It would have cost you nothing to have been open and explained the rules upfront.

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