Relic Knights NON US backers want information sorely.

[JustJacque]

After months of delay after delay, each news most coming days after the deadline has been missed almost every EU and APAC backer is either a) angry or b) so apathetic now to the game that their pledge has been wasted. Yesterday you posted an update telling us what we pretty much already know, the state of affairs between SPM and CMoN, yet what we needed to know is whether you missed the goddamn plane yet again for EU backers. I hate that I've had to make an account here to try and get answers, but every other avenue of contact returns with silence.

Speaking personally as you have washed your hands of us, I and any one I know have washed my hands of you. Even though you will never, ever, gain back my trust as a consumer after this debacle, can you not see that any kind of communication at this points may redeem you in the eyes of some disillusioned backers and that every cock up just drives more people away?

We paid through the nose for shipping, basically floating the cost of the US backers and yet have been treated as afterthoughts throughout. Worse still as a backer, apparently I can now go to my LGS and pick up Relic Knights right now, whilst I have no ETA on the pledge.

For the love of god just let us know what is going on.

[Banatine]

I agree. I don't like being ignored, especially when until Relic Knights i would have had nothing but good things to say about CMoN's customer service.

But this is just insulting. We ALL know that the EU container is on a boat right now, but they still insist on the airplane lie...

[Mortarion101]

I've got to the point where whenever I read an update my mind just automatically replaces any instance of plane with boat automatically.

Like Banatine, prior to this debacle I would have had nothing but good things to say about CMON so its a bit of a shame.

I'm certain we will get our stuff in the end but the constant delays, lack of credible information and the irritation that its gone to retail before we got ours is stupendously irritating.

That said, I wouldn't expect to get any kind of official response here. If they're ignoring the reams and reams of comments on the KS page there's a fair chance this is just going to get ignored. OR locked/deleted...

[Vadaprime]

I reckon this will get locked and/or deleted, but, primarily, it will just get ignored.

CMoN don't care about any of us now. The felt that with the split of SPM and them, that we were or loyal SPM customers, so would just up and leave. What they fail to see is that we are gamers, and gamers can like multiple games and gaming companies. But, with their actions, they are loosing so many customers, that many of us (especially APAC and EU) will never purchase from CMoN again. Yes, there are a few (or more than a few) people that are going to wash their hands of both companies (which I believe CMoN is ok with, as it will hurt SPM), but many more are just going to boycott CMoN.

I wouldn't turn up to any Cons any time in the future if I was CMoN, the amount of angry people out there that could potentially turn up and name and shame them in front of potential new customers will hurt CMoN more in the long run.

If CMoN (or a representative) reads this, and actually cares about customers, then please post here all relevant information regarding shipping to APAC and EU (I'm in Australia btw). There have been NO Australian backers jumping up and down screaming "I have my tracking number", so, looks of things, you have yet again lied about when APAC is being shipped. (oh, as a note: I did notice that they did say that "They (as in China) have given an estimated time of completion for next Friday" so if it hasn't been done by then, the can easily just blame China for the new delay

[Bunnski]

To help reference what we've been going through with the CMoN EU shipping, here's a brief run down of the (relevant) Kickstarter updates:

Update 115, April 2nd: Manufacturing said to be complete.
Update 116, May 5th: Manufacturing said to be complete, almost a month after the first time it was reported to be completed. Shipping anticipated for "last half of May".
Update 119, June 11th: “Orders for both EU and APAC are being packed at the factory right now.”
Update 123, June 27th: "As for EU and APAC, we have been in touch with the factory packing boxes. Packing is continuing at a steady pace."
Update 125, July 23rd: "EU packages are shipping from the packing facility in China via air freight on Monday."
Update 127, July 28th: Items expected to be shipping via air freight today (see: Update 125), nothing in update about shipping status. Buried in the comments section is a post saying that EU packing is finished and due to leave the warehouse on the 30th for air shipping to Germany.
Update 128, August 2nd: Three days after shipping date given in comment on update 127, shipping is now stated to start on the 4th August.
Update 129, August 4th: Expected shipping day, update contains nothing about EU shipping.

Like Jacque, it's got to the point where in order to try and get any information whatsoever, I've had to resort to making an account on these forums and ask here. Many of the updates on the Kickstarter aren't helpful, and those that do provide concrete information regarding dates are always followed up with another update later on about how they've missed it. It'd be really nice to know what the actual status of the shipping is, and as there are no answers forthcoming whatsoever on the Kickstarter page, it'd be nice to get an answer here.

[Hydraphobe]

Another APAC backer here. 2 x GGTA+

Sick of delays - lies - poor communication - and the fact that it takes a "responsible" modern day company to ship to key locations around the globe 3 months is a joke!

So CMON I as Bunnski above have been trying in many ways to get your attention back onto the issue at hand, not only have I failed, I have been blatently ignored, had topics locked on this very forum (discussing this matter) and banned from posting on the CMON facebook page. I'll admit I wasen't very polite on the FB page, but I believe the treatment to me as a paying backer has warranted such a response, especially after trying all other available means.

After crying out for MONTHS for ETA's and details on pledges (by MANY backers across the KS comments sections)- you (CMON) decide to give another "update" with missed dates and yet another target date - really, really dumb move. Give the EU + ROW + APAC backers some hard deadlines, some precises details and a dam ETA! Stop the bull and give the backers the information they have asked for and dam well deserve.

Here CMON the RK comments section link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ights/comments Just i case you forgot about it!

[JustJacque]

We are now into the working hours 2 days after the delayed shipment was meant to go out and still we have no clue what is going on. I see that we are unlikely to get responded to here, just as we are unlikely to get responded to through any form of contact, but I would not feel like I have done everything in my power to get the much deserved answers out of CMoN without continuing to update this thread.

I'm going to say that this must be professional incompetence on the side of CMoN because I cannot see how any sort of malice would be of benefit to them.

[CMON_Spencer]

Hey guys,

First I want to say that I understand your frustration and anger, and I apologize for lacking quality of service you feel that you've received. I know that doesn't ease your frustrations, but trust me when I say that we aren't pleased with how things have worked out either. Obviously we'd like for the project to be shipped and in everyone's hands.

Here's where things stand: EU is packed and in a container. We're waiting for confirmation that the container has been loaded onto a plane, and I assure you it is a plane. We were told that it would ship out on Monday, but I cannot confirm that the plane has left until I'm given a confirmation number. What I have been told is that the ETA is sometime next week if everything goes smoothly with customs. We will update you once we know more information.

APAC is being packed right now in China. We were told they would start shipping this week. I have emailed three times (Monday, Tuesday, and now today) to get a status update and they have not gotten back to me. It's frustrating for me as well as you can imagine.

We know everyone is eager to get their orders and we are equally as eager to get those orders to you. Unfortunately this is the problem with delivering worldwide and dealing with multiple third parties. We have to wait for information to come in, and we prefer to wait until things have happened to share information vs when we're told things will happen. As it has been demonstrated, sometimes we get told information from third parties that isn't accurate or reliable that makes us look bad when relaying it to you. However, we also agree staying silent until things have happened doesn't provide you the backers with any peace of mind. So we're really working hard to bring you the best information when it looks to be the most accurate.

The fact it, it is one thing with product delays, but the products are made, there is no reason for us to deliberately slow down the delivery process. We are doing our very best to get this project fully delivered as fast as we can.

[Jade Phoenix]

After months of delay after delay, each news most coming days after the deadline has been missed almost every EU and APAC backer is either a) angry or b) so apathetic now to the game that their pledge has been wasted. Yesterday you posted an update telling us what we pretty much already know, the state of affairs between SPM and CMoN, yet what we needed to know is whether you missed the goddamn plane yet again for EU backers. I hate that I've had to make an account here to try and get answers, but every other avenue of contact returns with silence.

Speaking personally as you have washed your hands of us, I and any one I know have washed my hands of you. Even though you will never, ever, gain back my trust as a consumer after this debacle, can you not see that any kind of communication at this points may redeem you in the eyes of some disillusioned backers and that every cock up just drives more people away?

We paid through the nose for shipping, basically floating the cost of the US backers and yet have been treated as afterthoughts throughout. Worse still as a backer, apparently I can now go to my LGS and pick up Relic Knights right now, whilst I have no ETA on the pledge.

For the love of god just let us know what is going on.

Look, I know you are upset. Truthfully I can so NOT blame you but this is in no way CMON's fault. I am not going to elaborate but rest assured what is within their power they will do.

[Hydraphobe]

So...

Product for EU + APAC has been sitting in China for well 3 months (give or take) and only now are things supposedly moving? How is it at all possible that this has happened? And why are the APAC order STILL not packed and out the door - there cannot possibly be huge quantities of pledges?
And according to your info and the 60+ aussie backers who are still knowingly waiting - APAC stuff is STILL NOT PACKED!?!

There are still far to many holes in this story, far to many delays and excuses. IF, and that's a big if, CMON really cared for international backers getting their pledges then, then all backers would have their stuff long ago. Pledges have been sitting static for a ridiculous amount of time, further compounded by the 3rd party issue (can we even believe this when talking about this exceedly long delays) still does not equal US receiving it MASSIVE shipment of retail + pledges and then a month plus EU and APAC still not having shipped? Stop sending emails and pick up the phone, call the 3rd parties and get answers! You had someone over in China to assist in the "complexity" of packing - this seems to have been a farce at best at it has yielded, no shipments, no information - nothing. These orders are not that complex, nothing outside the normal bounds of manufacturing and shipping.

CMON has burned bridges left, right and centre with the projects delivery and continue to do so with continued failures to maintain a reputation as a competent miniature company. I for one cannot wait to wash my hands clean of CMON. There are many, many backers who feel the same, yet you have shown no instance of making amends.
Never again will I support a company that cannot achieve even the common courtesies and delivery of product paid for in full near on 2 years prior. I have been ignored, censored and banned from social media in my attempt to get facts about my $1000+ investment into this project, like it is my fault that I want my RK pledge. I hope many follow suit, there are many far better and professional miniature companies out there that deserve customers support & earn their place in the industry.

-Matt
Never again a CMON Customer
Happy supporter of many other wargames/board games
Happy member of the Australian tabletop community

[Jade Phoenix]

CMON do not own the game, they work for someone else. They do not have the control you think they do.

[Hydraphobe]

You are mistaken Jade Phoenix. CMON is the publisher they have stated on many occasions that they are the ones that will be delivering the project to the doors of backer. THEY (CMON) are in full control of this situation and are responsible for all the issues stated by myself and other backers.

[crystella333]

Look, I know you are upset. Truthfully I can so NOT blame you but this is in no way CMON's fault. I am not going to elaborate but rest assured what is within their power they will do.

CMON do not own the game, they work for someone else. They do not have the control you think they do.

The fact that you keep saying that CMON don't have control of aspects or/and are not to blame for all the problems in getting this shipped out to everyone is not going to stop the anger or frustration these backers have. The fact that they put their money and trust into a product that is now over a year behind on shipping and now can be bought from retail (that's a major kick in the teeth to the backers still waiting)
At this point in time, all people want it a solid answer and the fact that the answers are all, it maybe this week or next week, we have emailed, we are waiting for answers.....Don't wait for answers/emails/container's. Pick up the phones, go and visit the 3rd party places and get the information that so many people are crying out for. If CMoN do not have control/power to do this then tell us who does.

[Bunnski]

We are doing our very best to get this project fully delivered as fast as we can.

Thanks for replying - would it be possible to get this post (or something like it!) posted up as an update on the Kickstarter page as well?

[JustJacque]

Thanks for replying - would it be possible to get this post (or something like it!) posted up as an update on the Kickstarter page as well?

This. The fact that I had to post your update on kickstarter for you is the kind of thing we are talking about. Not everyone comes to these forums and not everyone checks the KS comments section every day for new. You need to tell people even if it is "three days after are nth deadline we still don't have a clue what is going on." Silence is damning and all that.

[Bloodhowl]

So...

Product for EU + APAC has been sitting in China for well 3 months (give or take) and only now are things supposedly moving? How is it at all possible that this has happened?

Commercial vs. chartered flights. Import/export codes not correct on the Commercial invoice/Packing list. Customs Clearances not approved. Freight Forwarder missing airline cutoff timelines for the cargo. Cargo not packed properly to airline specs, national holidays in countries you are trying to ship to/from, invoices for payment not correct, pending Variation Order approvals, unresolved Non-Conformance issues with the product, Pending Customer Deviation Requests...

I work for an Oil & Gas company that ships equipment worldwide. I just went through all of this, this past weekend trying to get equipment into Singapore for a limited delivery window to one of our customers. There are lots of reasons, especially when dealing with foreign customs and third parties that this can happen. It's not as simple as dropping a box off at UPS and saying "ship this here".

[JustJacque]

This isn't the first time CMoN has to deal with this, they've had many international projects without so many ridiculous complications. It seems to me that they've tried to organize getting on a plane on the go, rather than planning weeks in advance to have it sorted.

[Mortarion101]

Commercial vs. chartered flights. Import/export codes not correct on the Commercial invoice/Packing list. Customs Clearances not approved. Freight Forwarder missing airline cutoff timelines for the cargo. Cargo not packed properly to airline specs, national holidays in countries you are trying to ship to/from, invoices for payment not correct, pending Variation Order approvals, unresolved Non-Conformance issues with the product, Pending Customer Deviation Requests...

I work for an Oil & Gas company that ships equipment worldwide. I just went through all of this, this past weekend trying to get equipment into Singapore for a limited delivery window to one of our customers. There are lots of reasons, especially when dealing with foreign customs and third parties that this can happen. It's not as simple as dropping a box off at UPS and saying "ship this here".

You do have a point. I used to work for a Freight Forwarder dealing with a lot of imports/exports from china and the east in general and know its not as easy as just whacking it on a boat/plane.

I think most people wouldn't mind as much if we were told that say there was a delay due to it not meeting the airlines specs, or codes or whatever. At least then we would know why, to be just told nothing is whats irritating. We were informed of the factory closedown for Chinese New Year which caused a delay and people were happier (in a manner of speaking) because at least we were told.

On the up side, thank you Spencer for getting a response too us. We do understand that you'll be as frustrated as us (even if we do appear to be foaming at the mouth and going slightly rabid), we know we'll get our stuff in the end, its the lack of consistent information thats getting us all wound up.

[JustJacque]

So it also turns out that even some US backers haven't be fullfilled, and that CMoN no longer has the stock to complete those pledges. Utterly horribly that you couldn't even fullfill your end of the bargain. Seriously concerned that when EU and RoW backers start getting things in 2016 that some of them wont be fullfilled.

[Bunnski]

Any more news? We're almost at the end of the week!