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  1. #1
    Newbie, please be gentle GhiaccioloPainting's Avatar
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    Default So...6 weeks ago...

    ...your production manager told us that shippings was 6 to 8 weeks ahead.
    6 weeks have passed.

    Where are our stuff? please give some insights

  2. #2

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    Anyone in the mood to explain the meaning of 'six to eight weeks'? It looks like some people do not understand it.
    Last edited by Teskal; 09-26-2014 at 10:49 AM.

  3. #3

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    I will take a shot at it: it means there will be a delay, lasting between 6-8 weeks. It does not mean that they will refuse to give an update until 7 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes and 59 seconds have elapsed. See here's the deal: nobody is being overly rude in my opinion, except you. I have interacted with team WoK a few times, and by no means speak for them, but I can almost assure you none of the WoK team came on this thread and said "wheh! Teskal was rude to that other customer we have, what a relief!" In fact, again in my opinion, you posting this rude response, not only here, but also in the kickstarter comments, only generates more irritation and angst. Hence my irritated and angsty reply.

    Nobody is cussing at CMoN, the only reason people are asking is because they are anticipating updates. The last production update was now over 6 weeks ago. I trust CMoN, but wish they would share some info so I will know if I have to do a change of address etc. Others could be in the same situation I am. In fact, I backed WoK to play with my brother; I will be moving soon, and if the game is delayed much more I will never actually play it with my brother. Not screaming for refunds, or even being rude, (again in my opinion), just asking for details.

    Speaking of details, CMoN Jenn posted in the bases kickstarter that there will be more details released today and Monday, so perhaps you can go rudely ask someone to explain the meaning of 6-8 weeks to her. I would prefer you not, but since that's your go-to response, far be it from me to stop you.

  4. #4

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    Thanks Keats, for posting what everyone else including me was too lazy to post

  5. #5

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    I think nearly everyone is hating it that we needed to wait 6 months more to get our products. I'm, too. I was hoping to have several minis already painted until I get the Mars attacks stuff. Now I get both at the same time which s*cks.

    But after 6 weeks to ask "where is our stuff?" is something what I do not understand if the new delay timeframe was 6-8 weeks. In such moments I get the urge to be sarcastic. We all hope to get updates and the stuff as early as possible. But the timeframe is 6-8 weeks, even if we don't want to wait anymore.

    But sarcasm is often rude and I will try to minimize it.

  6. #6

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    I heard from CMoN today that they havent gotten them, either. So I guess you have to wait a bit more.

  7. #7
    Newbie, please be gentle GhiaccioloPainting's Avatar
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    If a manager says there is a delay from 6 to 8 weeks i expect (no wait...i feel entitled, for lending more than couple of thousands euros to this company from an year now, to...DEMAND!) the same manager to show up after the firsts 6 weeks have passed and drop another update, no matter how good or bad it can be.

    (Just for clarification: i didn't meant to expect the miniatures delivered after 6 or 8 weeks, sorry for bad wording)

  8. #8

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    On 8/12 we were told that as soon as Mr. black received more news he would share it. Since then we have not heard any more about when we can now expect to receive shipments. I am surprised that no new information can be sent to the backers by now.

    Even if the update is the materials are being printed now, but no shipment timetable is available would be better than just frequent updates of painted models. Don't get me wrong I like seeing them, but really hungry for information on production and getting a new estimate. Right now we have no estimate on when we can expect product!!

    Anyone else concerned that none of the new painted models are being updated to the website? I check the website expecting new media, updated pictures, and it seems like this game has taken a back seat to something else.
    Last edited by Lord Baerion; 09-28-2014 at 05:08 PM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhiaccioloPainting View Post
    If a manager says there is a delay from 6 to 8 weeks i expect (no wait...i feel entitled, for lending more than couple of thousands euros to this company from an year now, to...DEMAND!) the same manager to show up after the firsts 6 weeks have passed and drop another update, no matter how good or bad it can be.

    (Just for clarification: i didn't meant to expect the miniatures delivered after 6 or 8 weeks, sorry for bad wording)
    While writing something there are always wanted and unwanted emotions coming with the texts. Always influences by the readers state of mind in the moment of reading. Sometimes, like I did, someone overreact, sorry.

    Let's hope we will soon have all our expected stuff and have a lot of fun discussing about the minis, the games and rules here or at BGG.

  10. #10

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    At this point i have just accepted that it might take years for it to come out, its best to dont believe what they write and estimate, just look for picture proof instead.
    We have no pictures of warehouses, no pictures of finished rulebooks, not alot of pictures of all the finished plastic models, no card pictures, Dice bag, ruler, etc
    if they had all these ready for shipping i bet they would be eager to take a Picture to show if off, but they dont

    however i dont doubt they do there best they can, just thing never go as planned and time flies fast

  11. #11
    Newbie, please be gentle GhiaccioloPainting's Avatar
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    good grief! it seems that after all ppl are not blind-folded thursting coolminiornot...
    That's exactly the point....the more i see from this project, the more it seems to me just a cash-grabbing experience, not something built to last (wich really i hoped).
    Well...at this point let's wait just another week, after that...cmon will have no more ecxuses...

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhiaccioloPainting View Post
    good grief! it seems that after all ppl are not blind-folded thursting coolminiornot...
    That's exactly the point....the more i see from this project, the more it seems to me just a cash-grabbing experience, not something built to last (wich really i hoped).
    Well...at this point let's wait just another week, after that...cmon will have no more ecxuses...
    I am going to assume that you have not supported previous CMoN Kickstarters.

    CMoN gives out a great value for the Kickstarters, but they are horrible at communication and even worse at delivering on time (for the most part).

    To be fair they have gotten much better with each KS, and their Dogs of War KS was actually shipped out a month early, looks like they are less than a month behind on their Arcadia Quest.

    I have actually gotten to see a production model for all of the minis in the WoK KS, and so far Mr. Black hasn't said anything that could be taken as a falsehood, so when he says that all the minis are done, I for one tend to believe him. Talking with him at GenCon his frustration over the printing issue was obvious. Since this material was the last to be finished, finding a problem with it would have literally been at the 11th hour. Since this also came to light at the middle of Con Season (CMoN Expo, GenCon, DragonCon, SD Comicon) I am sure this also added to the delay. Right now they are just leaving the expected ship month (September), so they are just now falling behind on shipping, which they did warn us about 6 weeks ago, so I am not sure what all the angst is about. I agree, it would be great if we had more communication, and knew when things would be shipped, but CMoN never posts when they have nothing to say. Currently we have Jen posting great images of the models (which just frustrates and makes me happy at the same time, since it just increases my want for little plastic piggies). She is doing this because it is something new that can be shared, and she and Mr. Black are spending time of the comments page of KS answering questions. Not quite sure what more they can do to make you happy.

  13. #13

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    We have seen pictures of the production models in the Kickstarter updates and in Derek's videos and they are really looking good.
    CMON will deliver really good quality. I see absolutely no cashgrabbing. They are only late, which s*cks, ok, but still we get good minis.

    And as Swan said, CMON delivered already many good Kickstarters and nearly every KS product had good quality. Most are even not more than 1-2 months late. A little research helps.

    During the KoW KS and after it we got much better communications and updates as before. Which could be from earlier KS experiences, but also because they had no partners. About communications we cannot really complain at the KoW KS.

  14. #14

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    Yeah communications have been real good compared to other CMoN kickstarters. Most of that has been due the Mr. Black, and Leif before him. The gentelmen in charge of this project have both made sure to communicate often and honestly.
    I aslo got a chance to talk to Mr. Black a gencon to thank him for the communication and he was embaressed by the delay.

    This delay isn't even the longest CMoN has had

  15. #15

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    ok, Teskal, you are certainly not being rude and I overreacted. I have talked to CMoN Derek on many occasions, he has given me free advice that has improved the quality of my painting and has been extremely friendly and nice. This thread was troll-bate to begin with, nothing productive can come from this discussion. I want the minis, but seriously, calling it a money grab? You will be getting high quality minis for less than $1each. I value the WoK team, and think they have been doing a great job.
    We will get updates when they are available.

  16. #16

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    Chill Man! Don't Worry, Be Happy. With Kickstarter, money is given in the hopes that something is produced and provided afterwards. This is not a retail store and we are not board members of CMON. In the real world things are not always on schedule or even get completed. I've seen large commercial projects go dead due to the lagging economy over the last few years and I've seen other projects fall behind schedule to bad luck, and no amount of yelling or blaming ever puts things right.... all you can do is Chill Out. Cmon will produce your miniatures...eventually...hopefully soon...

  17. #17
    Newbie, please be gentle GhiaccioloPainting's Avatar
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    i just wanted to wait until next week, but i u want to discuss now...

    Kickstarter is a founding operation, so i expect my rewards (extra miniatures) for lending them moneys. Communication to investors is not something optional...is crucial! Of course if i knew before how bad cmon reputetion was for kickstarters, i would have not drop cash into...(waiting instead for a store release)
    The latest update is like a joke :

    ""Happy Monday, backers! I saw some requests for photos showing minis assembled with the alternate parts alongside the originals, so that you can compare your modeling options."

    sorry?! just go read 3 or 4 comments on your kickstarter page and you'll see ppl area having others and BIGGERs concerns!

    i call this and example of bad comunication...bad communication is especially this: if we take for truth production manager words, then shipping is end of september + 8 weeks maximum. This call for a nobember/december release. Have u seen any coverage in the wargaming press (blogs, videos, whatever)? this is how cmon launch a great wargaming title like this?
    What would make me happy, you ask? pictures of produced goods, videos about the game, tutorials (the last ones on cmon official channel are 8 months old!)...something that hype the game before the supposed release, not that let ppl so down to ask for a refund on this stage!

    I think this is the only worth topic at this stage...we've seen miniatures, artwork, rules...for an year now: you want to still discuss them over the supposed release of the game?

    PS: as wiser ppl than me said...true friends are the ones who tell you what u need to hear, not what u want to!

  18. #18

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    Well, it seems that the issue here is your perceived rights, and the fact that there are no investors, there are only backers. Kickstarter is used for crowd funding, not crowd investing. You basically give your money to someone who promises to give you a reward at some future date.

    Now lets look at the rest of your complaint, you say that communication is not optional. Have you ever read the terms of KS. Do you know what is required of the people who run a KS? They have 3 responsibilities if their KS gets funded
    1) Supply the backers with their rewards
    2) Let the backers know if there will be an excessive delay
    3) if they cannot provide the rewards, then to work with the backers to either provide refunds or some alternative reward system

    No where in there are they responsible to the BACKERS to communicate with them, it is their OPTION. Now, since we have received 6 updates since the 8-12 update that explained that there will be a delay, I would have to say that CMoN are keeping communication open, and letting the backers know that they are still there. Your issue seems to be that CMoN is not communicating what you want to hear, not that they are not communicating. Communication is a funny thing, some people do it better then others. Companies are made of people, so you are going to get better communication from some companies than you do from others. I would say that if you do not like the communication you receive from one company then you should probably not back that company, and instead back one that communicates the way that you like. If you back a company blindly, with no research on how well/poor they communicate, then that is on you. You made the choice to blindly throw your money at that company.

    It is not like this was going to be a surprise, CMoN has run 13 KS so far, some better than others, but in each of theirs you can go into the comments sections and see what the backers think of their communication. In each of their previous KS, they have delivered a good/great value to their backers. Sometimes communication was poor, sometimes delays were Horrible (looking at RK and SW), sometimes they were right on time or early (looking at GoC and DoW), but in each case they delivered the rewards that were promised. Also, in each case, when shipping started the backers were told. I expect that when shipping starts for WoK we will be told.

    I am just confused by the entitlement people are feeling over an ESTIMATED delivery date. The initial ESTIMATED date was May, the new ESTIMATED date was September, then we were told of a new delay and we have not been given a new ESTIMATED date, but even so, we are 1 day after the previous ESTIMATED date. What is all of this angst and confusion about? When they have new information about shipping they will tell us, but does it really make sense to start calling this a "cash-grabbing experience" when CMoN has a solid track record for completing their Kickstarters, they are still putting out updates, and are still active answering questions in the forums.

    If CMoN is not your cup of tea, maybe you should change to coffee

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    Well, it seems that the issue here is your perceived rights, and the fact that there are no investors, there are only backers.
    if it were really true, then there would be no need for the reward system.
    And at the same time you're right, there are no investors, just preorders

    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    No where in there are they responsible to the BACKERS to communicate with them, it is their OPTION.
    option if they want to let this game live only for the KS. Mandatory if they want expanding it or if they want a healthy gaming community that buys the product in the future too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swan View Post
    but in each case they delivered the rewards that were promised.
    mostly yes, but not totally. For the RK they didn't deliver everything I paid for and cmon-support just points to SPM saying it's their problem now.
    To be honest the mostly inhouse KS-s(WoK so far, AQ, Z1-3 for example) are ok, but those with partners(SW, RK)... abysmal.

    ---------
    as for the comparison update + the last few from Jen: I'm happy to see something that shows progress(studio promo paintjobs), painted minis(Iron-eyes looks really great) or things that were not shown yet(like the alternate parts for some factions).

    that said about 6-8 weeks have passed since the update saying delay for 6-8 weeks(irrelevant if the original "in august" delay is 'corrected' to "we meant end of sept"), so it would be great to know if there is some progress or not.
    Aaand I'd really like to see the faction bases too. I bought them + extras, so all the minis will have them, but I have no idea how they will looks like in the end (I only saw the placeholder-image from the KS)

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAXXxxx View Post
    if it were really true, then there would be no need for the reward system.
    And at the same time you're right, there are no investors, just preorders
    Not really true, that is only true if you look at KS only in the vein of projects like WoK. If you take the whole of KS into account, you will see that many projects aren't about pre-orders of stuff, they are about social creations, helping those in need, caring for animals etc.... The rewards system does not have to be any more than a thank you, and the knowledge that you helped. It is not always about receiving product.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAXXxxx View Post
    option if they want to let this game live only for the KS. Mandatory if they want expanding it or if they want a healthy gaming community that buys the product in the future too.
    Again, this is opinion and perception. If you look at CMoN, they have their own Web Sites for their games, with forums and Legionnaires and organized play to expand and create the community, and insure the future of the product. To insure the future of the product they do not need to communicate with the KS backers, they need to communicate with the ones who did not back (they already have the backers money). They need the product into the stores and people plating it, and they are currently working on both of these. Communication with the backers is still an option for them. While not talking to them could/would lead to negative impressions of the game, it is not the only way to build their gaming community.


    Quote Originally Posted by MAXXxxx View Post
    mostly yes, but not totally. For the RK they didn't deliver everything I paid for and cmon-support just points to SPM saying it's their problem now.
    To be honest the mostly inhouse KS-s(WoK so far, AQ, Z1-3 for example) are ok, but those with partners(SW, RK)... abysmal.
    Yeah, don't get me started on the RK thing, I am still pissed that the $30 I spent on the 8" Cola I was promised ended up being a 5" Cola, and I am still waiting on Replacement pieces for my Doctrine. Unfortunately, how things fell out between CMoN and SPM, it was the backers that are still suffering from that crap storm.


    Quote Originally Posted by MAXXxxx View Post
    as for the comparison update + the last few from Jen: I'm happy to see something that shows progress(studio promo paintjobs), painted minis(Iron-eyes looks really great) or things that were not shown yet(like the alternate parts for some factions).

    that said about 6-8 weeks have passed since the update saying delay for 6-8 weeks(irrelevant if the original "in august" delay is 'corrected' to "we meant end of sept"), so it would be great to know if there is some progress or not.
    Aaand I'd really like to see the faction bases too. I bought them + extras, so all the minis will have them, but I have no idea how they will looks like in the end (I only saw the placeholder-image from the KS)
    I agree, it would be nice to know where things stand. I would really like to have my miniatures on the table and be playing with those instead of all of the proxies that we currently use. But again, CMoN has shown time and time again that they do not post updates that say "We don't know yet", they wait until they can give you an actual answer. When they have it, we will see it, until then they are keeping communication lines open, and are showing us what they have like "(studio promo paint jobs), painted minis(Iron-eyes looks really great) or things that were not shown yet(like the alternate parts for some factions)."

    I am just not seeing why people are feeling that they are entitled to whatever they want, and making accusations about shady business practices.

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