Women in Minis
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Thread: Women in Minis

  1. #1

    Post Women in Minis

    I just wrote a blog article expressing some of my concerns about CMoN's female sculps. Am I totally off-base? Feel free to let me know.

    http://gamersansclue.blogspot.com/20...minatures.html

  2. #2
    Brushlicker gohkm's Avatar
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    I don't know if this is Gamergate 2, but certainly, sexualized women are a trope in fantasy. There's examples all over the place, not just the ones you mentioned. A discussion on Dakka not too long ago showed, I think, that tolerance for the chainmail chicken is slowly eroding, but we have a ways to go yet.

    Personally, I would prefer to see more sensible clothing sculpted on women, both in fantasy and sci-fi, particularly doing away with 'boobplate '. There is definitely room for cheesecake sculpts for me, such as Sophie from Reaper. My peers are all parents now, and it's hard to say to the wives of my mates who also play D&D "I painted this model for you to use as an avatar" - and said model is clad in barely there things and is wielding an arguably phallic metaphor.
    Last edited by Dragonsreach; 02-02-2015 at 11:17 PM.
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  3. #3

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    ohh no, not here too... (after reading most of the dakka thread in the past)

    if you don't like, don't look. I have no idea why everyone wants to control everyone else. Also I don't understand, that it's bad and disgusting in minis/film/whatever, but totally ok on the beach for example.
    what bothers me more is that the depiction of blood, gore, mutilation and idolizing murderers/killers is ok, but a female mini is suddenly a bad thing.

    For counter I'd suggest minis from DarkSword minis. They are pretty tame and still looking good (altough there is a few sexualised models too, but not many).
    And you better not look at KD pinups. (altough the name gives it away: pinup)


    As for the WoK minis:
    - deathblossom: you're totally right, porn-pose, but was made before the game because sex sells. Too late to change that.
    - pelegarth (... had to look up, still not accustomed with the names) + Ashmen: I don't remember the background, but there was some reason there for the nakedness. And ashmen is actually a mixed gender group as far as I know. As for the mini: I found it refreshing that it's not the usual top-model that had some plastic surgery, so for that reason I might want to paint one.
    - big sister: don't like the mini at all, so I simply do the best thing from my PoV: ignore it.

  4. #4

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    I disagree and agree to an extent. I often see mini's that are posed to show a women's sexuality and some go too far but this issue has been going on since the dawn of time, from pinup girls to miniatures. Men envision women to be elegant and sexual; women envision men to by strong, which is human nature, and this shows has been shown in art for hundreds of years. I'm not saying that everyone shares the same opinion but it is the general consensus. It's a mindset which is built into our brains, its natural, weather you and I agree with it doesn't matter.

    Creating art that show off these aspects makes people feel good about what they look at and basing something around sexuality will sell it. The bottom line is if companies created mini's that weren't appealing to the majority of the market the company would go under, no matter how good the sculpt is.
    Regards

    David

  5. #5

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    I would encourage you to take a browse through CMON, WAMP & P&P and see what some of the top female artists in mini painting are painting. Would you feel the same knowing that there are women who are painting these over sexualized sculpts - most times far better than any of the male counterparts in the field? It's all very subjective. You may want to steer clear of e2046 then o_O
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  6. #6
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cetiken View Post
    I just wrote a blog article expressing some of my concerns about CMoN's female sculps.
    Am I totally off-base?
    Yes.

    You've missed the whole context about the objectification of woman as sexual objects in general.
    Plus you've only looked or referenced one manufacturer of miniatures.

    To be honest the blog you've done is very limited in viewpoint and I think you need to broaden the scope to include the use of the female form in gaming miniature sculpture from its inception to the current availabilities.
    I believe in Karma, what you give, is what you get returned. Affirmation; Savage Garden
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  7. #7

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    I actually enjoy the female form (much easier on the eyes then the male form IMO). I would agree that there is a place for this discussion, however,.. I always have to ask another question. "Where does this all end?"

    Let's run this out to it's logical conclusion. So, the first few people complain,.. and then we get sculpts with more clothes. But then the next group comes along and says that it hasn't gone far enough. So we cave-in to this group as well, and get model with even more "sensible clothing". And the next group,... and the next,... and the next,... until it's like back in the olden days, when it was a veritable stoning offense for a woman to show the skin from her ankles. (setting women lib back a few hundred years anyone?). In the end, what we end up with are games where every female character is essentially dressed as a "Nun", so that no one could possibly sexualize them (Oh.. except that one guy with the Nun fetish). The point is, anything can be viewed sexually, regardless of how "tame" you try to make it. (Remember,.. if it exists,.. there's porn of it)

    Men find women attractive, and no amount of "regulation" will ever be able to re-write or un-do what is essentially a basic human instinct. It is one of our 3 basic instincts,.. which are to: eat, sleep, and reproduce. It's encoded in our DNA. And anything else outside of that, is unnecessary,..(genetically speaking anyways).

    Just my two cents,..
    It's only a flesh wound!!!


  8. #8

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    I don't think the near-nudity of warrior characters is specific to women. You can find tons of examples of warrior men with barely a loincloth covering their junk. Just Google art by Boris Vallejo or Frank Frazetta as examples. So when people point to half-naked women warriors and cry "sexism!", do they do the same when presented with Conan the Barbarian? Not to my knowledge.

    I also don't know how much of a problem cheesecake miniatures really are. I mainly buy Reaper, Infinity and Malifaux minis, and while there are some cheesecake minis, there are also plenty of sensibly clothed and not-overtly sexualized female sculpts.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by shponglefan View Post
    I don't think the near-nudity of warrior characters is specific to women. You can find tons of examples of warrior men with barely a loincloth covering their junk. Just Google art by Boris Vallejo or Frank Frazetta as examples. So when people point to half-naked women warriors and cry "sexism!", do they do the same when presented with Conan the Barbarian? Not to my knowledge.
    again, the problem isnt that there are half naked women as miniatures, the problem is that 99% of the women portrayed in this hobby are half naked. can you say the same about men?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkelettetS View Post
    again, the problem isnt that there are half naked women as miniatures, the problem is that 99% of the women portrayed in this hobby are half naked. can you say the same about men?
    the difference there-in lies in the social viewpoint of such things. A half naked man is viewed as muscular/powerful,... a half naked woman is viewed as sexy.. the problem isn't in the models, but rather in the social narative that defines how we view and/or conceptualize each of the models.
    It's only a flesh wound!!!


  11. #11

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    im pretty sure that the modelmakers often aim to make the women super sexy and the men to look powerful though.

  12. #12

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    Yes, your totally off base. Like a fool I hit your clickbait, Mr. first post. It just seems to me that your trying to stir up crap for WoK and CMoN and get more people to look at your blog.

    I'm far from innocent, but picking apart Deathblossom is pretty silly, considering ALL of the thousands of mini's being made today (2015) that actually DO objectify women AND men. Have you bothered to look around the hobby?

    My lady wanted me say "women don't want to paint women in man armor". Her words and I concur.

    They don't have to be naked, but they don't have to be Joan of Arc either. Not being a hypocrite, I love painting naked ladies.

    A note on E's adult stuff and Kingdom death. E2046 does label it 18+ so if you look it's your own damn fault, Kingdom Death does not and there is mangina everywhere. Just sayin...

    Also as a fat man my knowledge of bosoms is not entirely theoretical.
    "I was too distracted by the ladies to be scared of your bear. That is the second weirdest sentence I have ever typed on this site o_O"- Zab

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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkelettetS View Post
    the problem is that 99% of the women portrayed in this hobby are half naked.
    Is that really true? That is, is the proportion of sexy female minis significant enough to constitute an issue? For that matter, what is the real proportion of sexualized or half-naked female minis?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post
    the difference there-in lies in the social viewpoint of such things. A half naked man is viewed as muscular/powerful,... a half naked woman is viewed as sexy.. the problem isn't in the models, but rather in the social narative that defines how we view and/or conceptualize each of the models.
    There's arguably a sexualized component to muscular half-naked men, however. Men with fit, muscular bodies are generally considered 'sexy' by modern social standards.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by shponglefan View Post
    For that matter, what is the real proportion of sexualized or half-naked female minis?
    I don't think anyone really knows.
    I suspect it's above 50%, but surely below the mentioned 99%.

    aand for the whole thread: I think we were trolled a bit. New poster instead of intro suddenly this thread.
    But the goal is achived: blog got a few extra views/clicks, and by editing our answers cleverly he can write another, follow-up article about the 'sad' state of the mini-painters, who don't care if a small metal/plastic/resin item is an item and nothing else.

  16. #16

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    So far though, I have to say that I'm rather impressed with this groups responses,.. if only for the fact that everyone has answered calmly and logically, and it hasn't exploded into a emotion fueled hate thread. Bravo everyone,... its nice to be surrounded by grown-ups.
    It's only a flesh wound!!!


  17. #17

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  18. #18

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    Lol, ok I didn't notice king kong at first, but neither did my GF
    "I was too distracted by the ladies to be scared of your bear. That is the second weirdest sentence I have ever typed on this site o_O"- Zab

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  19. #19

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    Diversity and the lack of it is the key. I am fed up with the lack of difference of how women are portrayed compared to men. It just gets old. If some women don't feel the same, I don't really care about their opinion. I am not having this opinion for any specific woman's sake as some sort of white knight (or oh my god think of the children). I want to sculpt and paint a variety of female characters as I want to tell interesting stories and be a part of an interesting world... and that's what I am going to do. There is nothing wrong with steaming hot sexual ladies, there's nothing wrong with the opposite. If you call either of them something derogatory, then I will have a problem with you.

    @10ball: If King kong would have been in the front and the lady peeking in and no man would notice King kong. Well, then there would be a point to it.

  20. #20
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post
    So far though, I have to say that I'm rather impressed with this groups responses,.. if only for the fact that everyone has answered calmly and logically, and it hasn't exploded into a emotion fueled hate thread. Bravo everyone,... its nice to be surrounded by grown-ups.
    Oi, I may be old but I object to being called Grown Up.


    THere is a viewpoint that the "scantily clad female miniature" appeals to the classic Basement Dweller image of gamers/painters and some manufacturers have played on that, but equally there is a high number of well sculpted/proportionately accurate/finely dressed miniatures , I'll name Sebastian Archers "Guild of Harmony" as one of the best Boutique and Reaper as one of the Mainstream who have taken the option to clothe remake miniatures.

    AND let me say I appreciate the Human Form, both Male and Female without prejudice.
    I believe in Karma, what you give, is what you get returned. Affirmation; Savage Garden
    Oh look my IQ results came in:-
    , and proud of it.

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