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  1. #41
    Brushlicker crystella333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsreach View Post
    I think I understand that you don't want to be portrayed as the "Helpless Girl".
    Most men who've stayed married as long as I have (36 years) know most women aren't helpless.
    But sometimes we men are happy to step up to support women especially after the GamerGate issues against Felicia Day.

    Aye well said Dragonsreach

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by ten ball View Post
    When you say people do you mean men?
    I actually mean everyone. Men do it, sure, but there are plenty of women (see Anita Sarkeesian) who try to censor sexualized females because it makes them uncomfortable, even if most women are able to look past said character's physical attributes (see Anita's now deleted analysis of Bayonetta, where she reduced an amazing character down to the fact that she's sexy)

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsreach View Post
    I think I understand that you don't want to be portrayed as the "Helpless Girl".
    Most men who've stayed married as long as I have (36 years) know most women aren't helpless.
    But sometimes we men are happy to step up to support women especially after the GamerGate issues against Felicia Day.
    I know your intentions are good, but assuming me and other girls need to be shielded from a scantily clad plastic figure the size of my thumb is beyond patronizing.

    Trying to force model makers to create more 'appropriate' (in quotes because what is and is not appropriate for a woman to have on is subjective) models of women is not a woman's issue, it's a censorship vs creative freedom one.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkelettetS View Post
    good for you.
    i am sorry i find that comment pretty lame. you mean by the fact im male i cant have an opinion in this?
    Point to where I said that, I was simply voicing my frustrations over people assuming I need protection from 1 inch chunks of pewter and plastic. Sure go ahead, have your opinion, ill just remember never ever to voice mine's again

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmingbot View Post
    I know your intentions are good, but assuming me and other girls need to be shielded from a scantily clad plastic figure the size of my thumb is beyond patronizing.

    Trying to force model makers to create more 'appropriate' (in quotes because what is and is not appropriate for a woman to have on is subjective) models of women is not a woman's issue, it's a censorship vs creative freedom one.
    FINALLY! someone with some sense! Creativity and freedom shall reign! Have your opinions, but don't force them on others. After all, if you don't like a mini because you think it portrays someone in a certain way, DON'T BUY IT!! But don't take that opportunity away from me!

  6. #46

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    @Lemmingbot:

    I am not holding this opinion to shield your "fragile" soul, I don't think you need to be protected. It's not about censorship but representation. If there were no scantily clad women along I would want to sculpt and paint those and raise a similar argument. Diversity is the key, makes this hobby more open as well and that is a good thing.

    I notice that when a movie gets criticism for characters lacking depth it is an "opinion" and can be valid or not, for female characters lacking depth it is apparently "politics" for many and is akin to censorship and forcing your opinions on people.

    I hate manufacturer X's miniature because the pose is stiff. I hate it because the pose is sexist. Both are opinions and both can also be valid opinions. Should we stop X from making miniatures with stiff poses by forbidding them? No. Should we stop xx from making sexist poses by forbidding them? No. But we can voice our opinion about it. Manufacturers does cater to markets not only their own artistic vision.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avelorn View Post
    @Lemmingbot:

    I am not holding this opinion to shield your "fragile" soul, I don't think you need to be protected. It's not about censorship but representation. If there were no scantily clad women along I would want to sculpt and paint those and raise a similar argument. Diversity is the key, makes this hobby more open as well and that is a good thing.

    I notice that when a movie gets criticism for characters lacking depth it is an "opinion" and can be valid or not, for female characters lacking depth it is apparently "politics" for many and is akin to censorship and forcing your opinions on people.

    I hate manufacturer X's miniature because the pose is stiff. I hate it because the pose is sexist. Both are opinions and both can also be valid opinions. Should we stop X from making miniatures with stiff poses by forbidding them? No. Should we stop xx from making sexist poses by forbidding them? No. But we can voice our opinion about it. Manufacturers does cater to markets not only their own artistic vision.
    I think diversity is fine but why the focus only on women? Im sure many people would love to play an impractically bare chested, muscle bound barbarian, but no, only women need diversity when it comes to their costumes.

    As far as film goes, a lot is usually made out to be 'politics' by bad feminists looking for non issues to exploit for attention. A poorly written character is just that.

    Have your opinions, as long as your not forcing people to adopt it I don't really care. But please do remember that not everyone is capable of that. For example if you've been paying attention to GamerGate you'll notice that many of the journalists tried to use there reach to force an un-needed change in the industry (and promote friends, but thats not what we're talking about atm) by shaming certain games while giving praise to others. Im not trying to say having a preference for more modestly dressed ladies is wrong, in fact I tend to lean that way as well, but forcing people to adopt that view (weather directly or indirectly) is absolutely appalling.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmingbot View Post
    I think diversity is fine but why the focus only on women? Im sure many people would love to play an impractically bare chested, muscle bound barbarian, but no, only women need diversity when it comes to their costumes.
    if you want to play a bare chested barbarian there are hundred of miniatures to chose from. if you want to play a (male) fisherman there are hundreds of miniatures to chose from. if you want to play a (male) overweight astronaut with twohanded lightsabre doing charlie chaplin moves there are hundreds of miniatures to chose from (well sort of). the whole issue is that men minis already have awesome lot of diversity while women have to go for their slim chainmail bikini, boob-plates, or if sci-fi something that involves a sexy pose and tits like baloons (i know there are some brilliant exceptions)

  9. #49

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    It is perfectly possible for a male painter to have the opinion that the representation of women in miniature form is one-sided and that better variety is needed, simply as his own personal opinion. Just because a male painter expresses that opinion it doesn't have to be "on behalf" of "helpless girls".
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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkelettetS View Post
    if you want to play a bare chested barbarian there are hundred of miniatures to chose from. if you want to play a (male) fisherman there are hundreds of miniatures to chose from. if you want to play a (male) overweight astronaut with twohanded lightsabre doing charlie chaplin moves there are hundreds of miniatures to chose from (well sort of). the whole issue is that men minis already have awesome lot of diversity while women have to go for their slim chainmail bikini, boob-plates, or if sci-fi something that involves a sexy pose and tits like baloons (i know there are some brilliant exceptions)
    I find this statement only partially true. I have been looking around for ages to represent a male handsome slender rogue charakter for an RPG. I find that most male charakters are very overmuscled and/or have overly grim and haggard faces. I had a much easier timer finding fitting (and adequately clothed) minis for the female members of the Party (Reaper and Darksword mostly).
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  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuggoth View Post
    I find this statement only partially true. I have been looking around for ages to represent a male handsome slender rogue charakter for an RPG. I find that most male charakters are very overmuscled and/or have overly grim and haggard faces. I had a much easier timer finding fitting (and adequately clothed) minis for the female members of the Party (Reaper and Darksword mostly).
    Dark Sword minis are AWESOME!!... sorry I had to post this as a matter of personal preference.

  12. #52
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmingbot View Post
    I think diversity is fine but why the focus only on women? Im sure many people would love to play an impractically bare chested, muscle bound barbarian, but no, only women need diversity when it comes to their costumes.
    Hmmmn, not too sure if I would, but I'm also not sure if this is well phrased sarcasm.
    Congratulations I'm kinda stumped.


    Im not trying to say having a preference for more modestly dressed ladies is wrong, in fact I tend to lean that way as well, but forcing people to adopt that view (weather directly or indirectly) is absolutely appalling.
    Your point on a more modest dress female figure is well understood, I too find an appreciation in modest dress. In fact I've stated before that I find fashion for ladies of the Victorian/Edwardian era very elegant and alluring. (Despite fact that it was probably bleeding uncomfortable).


    Oh and Lemmingbot, please let me say that you are fitting really well here, providing good rational arguments. I suspect that others are finding it as pleasurable as I am to have someone new come in and discuss a subject and make me feel as if you are and have been long time member.
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  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsreach View Post
    Oh and Lemmingbot, please let me say that you are fitting really well here, providing good rational arguments.
    Reminds me of the good old days of this forum where we had long discussions on really difficult political topics with VERY different points of views from various members, and still those discussions rarely got out of hand!
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  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsreach View Post
    Hmmmn, not too sure if I would, but I'm also not sure if this is well phrased sarcasm.
    Congratulations I'm kinda stumped.
    d'oh! for advanced for my swenglish to realize!

  15. #55
    Brushlicker gohkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritual View Post
    Reminds me of the good old days of this forum where we had long discussions on really difficult political topics with VERY different points of views from various members, and still those discussions rarely got out of hand!
    'Good old days'? What has changed since those days? I still see discussions here that are passionate, but do not devolve into mudslinging and name-calling that is so common on other forums. This is still my forum of choice for reading about contentious issues that are discussed in a civilized manner.
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  16. #56

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    It was a lot more discussion about things back then. A lot of discussions about topics that very easily could have degenerated into chaos, but didn't. This General Discussion forum isn't nearly as active these days.
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  17. #57
    Brushlicker gohkm's Avatar
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    Ah, I see. I think the inactivity is in part due to Facebook.
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  18. #58
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritual View Post
    Reminds me of the good old days of this forum where we had long discussions on really difficult political topics with VERY different points of views from various members, and still those discussions rarely got out of hand!
    Quote Originally Posted by gohkm View Post
    'Good old days'? What has changed since those days? I still see discussions here that are passionate, but do not devolve into mudslinging and name-calling that is so common on other forums. This is still my forum of choice for reading about contentious issues that are discussed in a civilized manner.
    We've gotten older, but No Wiser.
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  19. #59

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    Forcing diversity never works. We see this in America all of the time. NFL owners MUST interview an African Americsn candidate before hiring a coach, even if they've already made up their minds on a hire. At some universities, your race holds more weight than your GPA for application purposes. Talk radio is dominated by Conservatives here, but the Left wanted to make it law that for every hour of a Republican viewpoint, there must be an hour of Democratic radio (even though the Leftist Air America was a huge failure). I understand that it may be a sad commentary on state of things, but diversity for the sake of diversity is far worse. Building a supply for something where there is little demand has and will end in failure.
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  20. #60

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    I 100% agree! Diversity without assimilation into a country's culture will create nothing but division and the destruction of that country's culture. Diversity for the sake of diversity is NEVER a good thing; especially since diversity does not guarantee ability.

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