Pelegarth Shield Bash
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Thread: Pelegarth Shield Bash

  1. #1

    Default Pelegarth Shield Bash

    Does Shield Bash knock back have to be directly away from the Pelegarth using the special ability, or can it be in any direction away from the Pelegarth?

  2. #2

    Default

    Knockback doesn't mention "directly", so the movement only has to be "away". See the Forced Movement rules on p11.

    Note that because knockback says "is forced" then it's the owner of the model being moved that chooses how it's moved. You don't get to choose to knock an enemy back into another model, you opponent has to choose to do that to themselves before you get the free attack.

    EDIT: Because the models will be in contact when the knockback occurs, any direction (except through the Pelegarth) will be "away", so your opponent is potentially quite able to aim their knocked-back model into one of yours, causing the free attack on you! We'll have to see often that happens in actual play.
    Last edited by FMC; 03-14-2015 at 07:34 AM. Reason: Revelation!

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FMC View Post
    Note that because knockback says "is forced" then it's the owner of the model being moved that chooses how it's moved. You don't get to choose to knock an enemy back into another model, you opponent has to choose to do that to themselves before you get the free attack.

    EDIT: Because the models will be in contact when the knockback occurs, any direction (except through the Pelegarth) will be "away", so your opponent is potentially quite able to aim their knocked-back model into one of yours, causing the free attack on you! We'll have to see often that happens in actual play.
    The problem is that the wording of the text does not say if you or the models owner move the mini.

  4. #4

    Default

    It would be good to maybe have a colour code for ease of understanding with abilities such as these. Red dot = enemy moves model, Green dot = owner of the model. No room for error at all.

  5. #5

    Default

    The explanation of forced movement on p11 says that if the ability is phrased "is forced" then the owner of the model moves it. If the ability is phrased "you move" then the owner of the acting model moves the target model. Knockback is phrased "is forced".

  6. #6

    Default

    The model causing Knockback directs the movement of the model, not the model's owner.

    This will be an FAQ note.
    Designer and Senior Developer
    A Song of Ice and Fire, Dark Age, Rum & Bones, World of SMOG: Rise of Moloch, Wrath of Kings, Xenoshyft

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CMON Mr. Black View Post
    The model causing Knockback directs the movement of the model, not the model's owner.

    This will be an FAQ note.
    Oh thank the scion king! I have savvy smart opponents, and it would have made the bloodmasks a liability instead of an asset.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quick question: In the rulebook, the Shield Bash is listed as a 1 die attack, on the card however, it isn't listed as an attack anymore but has kept the wording "before results are generated." Does that mean that if I choose Shield Bash now, it is basically an automatic success as far as the push effect is concerned and any damage from collisions is an added bonus?
    Thanks in advance.

  9. #9

    Default

    Shield Bash does not cause any damage by itself (the card is correct, the book is not), so if you use it, it will automatically happen. If you push the target into another model, that other model will take a 1 die attack.

  10. #10

    Default

    Okidok that's what I figured, thank you for clearing it up!

  11. #11

    Default

    I have another question about knock back. When a pelegraph uses knock back on a Modell but the targeted Modell can t physically be moved away 2" because other Modells stand around it. What happens? Can the Modell be knocked back and one of the surrounding Modell gets a attack die Or does nothing Happen?

  12. #12

    Default

    Whether the model physically moves doesn't matter, it would still count as being knocked back and would be immediately stopped by the model in contact. Things that stop movement (like Raeth's Hold the Line) would prevent it though as the knockback never happened.

    Another thing to note is this:
    http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/...l=1#post812361

    Leaving things in contact when there's knockbacks around is going to suck. With the direction of "away" being chosen by the attacker, that means you can roll d10 melee attacks on 2-3 models, depending on how they're positioned.

  13. #13

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDave View Post
    Leaving things in contact when there's knockbacks around is going to suck. With the direction of "away" being chosen by the attacker, that means you can roll d10 melee attacks on 2-3 models, depending on how they're positioned.
    Even with the attacker choosing the knock back direction it's essentially impossible to hit more than one other model. Because it's straight line movement you'd have to begin positioned exactly on the bisecting line.

  15. #15

    Default

    Thats not true. the rule says away and not directly away which means you can move somwhere between 0 and two inch as long as the moved model dosen t end its movment closer than before.

  16. #16

    Default

    It doesn't need to be directly away from the attacker, but it still needs to be in a straight line, doesn't it? I assume you aren't allowed to move them in a circle to 1mm behind the attacking model.

    EDIT: I reread the movement rules and it sounds like maybe my assumption is wrong, and that all forced movement missing the "directly" keyword is essentially a regular maneuver. This reading would make the "up-to" keyword totally irrelevant in all but direct movement as well, which seems odd.
    Last edited by ecurtz; 05-12-2016 at 08:22 PM.

  17. #17

    Default

    Ya, without "directly" the forced movement doesn't have to be in a straight line.

  18. #18

    Default

    Seems like shield bash needs the directly keyword, or they need to revise the forced movement rules somewhat. Shield bash doesn't have "up to", but as noted above the liberal interpretation of forced movement makes "up to" meaningless.

    This allows for all sorts of silly abuse, like shield bashing somebody behind the attacker, or into the back of a friendly unit next to them in a line formation, or even around a non-touching model directly behind the target.

    EDIT: Checked the math and changed my examples to be less extreme, you can't actually rotate 180 degrees around a 30mm base.
    Last edited by ecurtz; 05-13-2016 at 11:17 AM.

  19. #19

    Default

    There's no facing or arcs, so I don't see how knockback on something directly behind the attacker is open to abuse any more than something directly in front of the attacker. The same goes for knockback to the far side of a non-touching model directly behind the target (if it even had the move to get there, most knockbacks are 2").

    I don't follow you on this one: "into the backs of two friendly units next to them in a line formation". How would that work?

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDave View Post
    I don't follow you on this one: "into the backs of two friendly units next to them in a line formation". How would that work?
    I had to edit that once I checked the math. I thought you'd be able to rotate around the model next to you 135 degrees into two adjacent models, but you can only manage about 95 degrees of movement around a 30mm base. It just means that in a group activation you can set it up so every model is guaranteed to suffer both being hit by at least one knock back and a regular attack (assuming a matching leader). Maybe that's the intent as it isn't as ridiculous as the 2 or more guaranteed knock back attacks every time in my initial idea.

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