Golden Demon 2015 - Page 2
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Thread: Golden Demon 2015

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkelettetS View Post
    but yeah my hopes are that it rewards "mini-demons" for such single category gd's, not to drain the value of getting/having an actual demon. i guess not though as it require cheap @ss gw to make new moulds for demon statues. lol. anyway, ill continue my work until further notice.
    Maybe they'll hand out 28mm plastic demons that you have to paint gold yourself. Then around 2017 they'll add in a "Golden Demon" category to the full GDs.

  2. #22

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    If this is just another category so to speak, lifted out of the primary GD, I don't mind at all. Let's hope it is like that.

    About the EM team.

    1. Lot of crap being talked about their work, still I don't see many people painting as well as they do in that kind of style. Some of them are better painters some of them are worse, like always.
    2. Some of their best painters have however become sculptors so naturally the top level has dropped somewhat. I have noticed that too. But they had reinforcements after Christmas that should show itself soon in the WD I hope.
    3. You have to realize that many of the photographs are extremely revealing, a kind of close up scrutiny people you might think are amazing painters would not stand up to at all.
    4. I think a factor of the more lumpy nature to some of the paintjobs is that the paint has actually gotten worse, at least for some ways of blending. I find it very hard to get good super-smooth results with the new citadel paint.
    5. When is that time period when you thought they were all that? Are we thinking Mike McVey 20 years ago? I remember long time ago when I thought the EM team had become useless,
    I later realized that it coincided with that they fired they photographer and made an early switch to digital. Early 2000's I think.
    6. My take is that Eavy metal is just like Heavy Metal. They do what they have always done and they do it well. However time has changed and this hobby has evolved. We now see a lot of different
    ways of painting and styles that greatly surpasses the EM style when it comes to realism and subtle nuances. They keep on with their eavy metal and sometimes I do really like to look at those kind of paintjobs as well.
    Last edited by Avelorn; 05-18-2015 at 04:25 AM.

  3. #23

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    I would think that the goal Eavy Metal team would be to demonstrate what a person with average talent and a lot of patience can accomplish using exclusively GW paints and brushes. GW sells a very specific process of painting miniatures, and the EM teams has to follow it. Prime, Base, Shade, Layer, Dry Brush, Highlight. This limits the EM team's ability to exceed a certain level.

    An observation about CMON: It is pretty clear that the level of talent (among top artists) has increased significantly over the years. At the same time, the bar has been raised when it come to rating minis. You can search for just about any mini that has been around for a while and you will see that what would rate an 8 or 9 on CMON 5 to 7 years ago, barely rates 6 now. This higher level of expectation also makes people more critical of the EM team's work.

  4. #24

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    Oh, that´s not war I´m saying. Still envy the skills of EM members, and when they´re allowed to spend time, they do incredibly neat stuff. But as DR says, they seem to have a different time setting to paint in. We rarely see paint jobs such as Darrens Sanguinus any more. But this isn´t what I´m disappointed with. I´m disappointed with the fact that amazing articles such as the Eavy Metal masterclass has been largely replaced with shit like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG8M...x&spfreload=10. Extremely basic tutorials for painting armies quickly, with a base layer, a wash and a highlight. The articles in white dwarf could just as well have been made by 12 year olds at the local store. Guess this has little to do with the Eavy Metal team in truth, but i still dislike the tendency...

  5. #25

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    hate to say it ischa but warhammer is a wargame and not strictly display miniatures, that they replace masterclass with basic army painting tutorials do actually make sense to me.

  6. #26

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    Of course it makes sense! It makes sense for them to not have a golden demon as well. But that is not the point. The point is that they are giving up on display painting, both through devaluating the GD and removing master classes.

    And as a pure display painter with no interest in the game this is my reason for disliking what they do. Not commenting on them as a business venture or a game system, but rather the fact that they´re turning their backs on a large part of the hobby. Which is sad but logical as they are a registered stock market MNcompany.

    I fully accept what they do, and even like it if they can expand the hobby.

  7. #27

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    I've been looking back through some of the old Eavy Metal masterclass articles and some of them are truly stupendous. I've got to say comparing them to the quality of the paint jobs that currently appear in GW literature website etc they ARE far superior. So I'm afraid I have to disagree with you Averlorn. However there were variables even a few years ago some of the use of edge highliting and the gold they use to do was not so good IMHO. Overall i do subscribe to the theory that they clearly aren't given enough time to produce a top quality paint job which seems insane to me. surely you want your product to look as good as possible unless you don't want to embarrass your key market (12 year old kids) by showing how low their ability is or something. This just doesn't fly with me either as I was that 12 yr old kid and I saw it as something to aim for and aspired to be as good as them one day. I'm not a business man so maybe I just don't understand the grand scheme that is the GW master-plan.
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  8. #28

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    White dwarf used to have both types of articles in, masterclass and gaming painting. Really can not see why this still carnt be done?
    1. 'Painting is a companion with whom one may hope to walk a great part of life's journey.' W. Churchill
    Thank you for asking but I don't do commissions.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    I'm not a business man so maybe I just don't understand the grand scheme that is the GW master-plan.
    yes but you are a customer mate and they should listen to the customer or on their own head be it!
    1. 'Painting is a companion with whom one may hope to walk a great part of life's journey.' W. Churchill
    Thank you for asking but I don't do commissions.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by ten ball View Post
    White dwarf used to have both types of articles in, masterclass and gaming painting. Really can not see why this still carnt be done?
    mostly because they don't care about the display part anymore. Painters generate very little revenue for them. I mean at most we need one from their models and if not near a GD then we paint models from other companies too.

    about us being the customer to listen to: just last year's annual they boasted, that they do NO market research and don't care about customer opinions, so....


    That said even if those YT videos aim only the gaming level, the result is pretty nice and the presentation is good. I actually like to rewatch them from time to time despite no usable info in them(and a few points where I think it's there to ruin your brush and paint faster, so you rebuy).
    On the other end are for example the painting buddha videos. The tech and level they show is amazing, really, more than masterclasses, but somehow watching them is boring and painful.
    Forgot, that it works again.

  11. #31

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    hmmm mm eavy metal team now given very limited time ....DR says for characters many models in 3-4 hours.....hmmm mm. I can do that ....job openings anyone:-)

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodASmedium View Post
    hmmm mm eavy metal team now given very limited time ....DR says for characters many models in 3-4 hours.....hmmm mm. I can do that ....job openings anyone:-)
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  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    I've been looking back through some of the old Eavy Metal masterclass articles and some of them are truly stupendous. I've got to say comparing them to the quality of the paint jobs that currently appear in GW literature website etc they ARE far superior...
    Of course the masterclasses are going to be awesome. At least some of them that were penned by the best painters... but it is not representative of the overall quality. I chucked out some WD's per random and a new vision and a new thin WD. The old from 2009,2007, 2001... First two very similar to as it is now. The one from 2001 was hard to judge as the images were so tiny and mostly large battles. Biggest difference is that the images are pin sharp in the visions and new WD and often contain unflattering close ups.

    Just some random examples.

    The new issue I took out was WD 36. Think it's the last one I 've bought. It's from October.

    First up a very nice Dark Eldar Archon. Looks great, maybe face is a bit flat but looks suiting. Surrounded by some warriors that doesn't look that interesting - flat. Next is the Succubus Again a very nice paintjob. Then there's some FW stuff. Some Dark Eldar ships that look good. Then there's an Eavy Metal feature. Adam Dole Space Marine. Not the most thrilling work but as neat as it gets. Anja Wettergrens Araloth. Looks super! Then some battle reports. Then a Firebelly, it's a couple of years old. Looks good as well. Spruce and glue and paint splatter are uninteresting. Yeah we miss the old masterclasses that is for sure...

    An old per random 2007 WD334, release of Apocalypse. First up some baneblades that look good. A tank commander that looks a bit flat. Masters of the chapter looks pretty ok, a bit flat, but the master of the fleet looks nice. space marine veterans... nice and neat! tanks tanks... and then some Ogryns. The Ogryns look ok but I don't like the skin colour. Commissars looks good and a ork big mek with boss pole looks also pretty nice. All images are much smaller than the newer WD so it's harder to judge the quality of the paint but really nothing to write home about. They look good most of them but some looks pretty dull. Interesting to see three different variants of the falcon where one is very subpar to the rest. The EM Masterclass is Suldan & Boromir by Fil Dunn. They look ok but not much more.

    Clicked into the web store. Warhammer fronted Nagash, Thanquol and a Treeman. Fault them please. They all look good.
    Warhammer 40k. Some servitors. Neat job but I think they look a bit boring. Automatas also look good but red red red - I know it's Mars but come on. Some Imperial knights. They also look good.
    Hobbit. Mirkwood rangers. Actually very nice paintjobs. The War Mumak doesn't look great but I think that is an old paintjob. Balrog looks good but also an old paintjob.

    I don't need to speculate as I know how much time they get to paint, at least as per February. It is not less than they used to but they paintwork doesn't look worse either. Unless you cherry-pick the best from the old with the worst of the new (some of the new lotr miniatures look bleeergh and I also recall some awful Tyranids... overall the new paintjobs of the Tyranids didn't look good I think).

    The overall quality remains similar and most stuff now compare favorable I think if we go back. They were duds back then (if the last 15 years can go as then) and there are duds now. Again some of the best painters have quit and started sculpting (Darren Latham and Joe Tomaszewski). But some amazing painters like Neil Green and Anja Wettergren remains afaik. The quality is slightly lower because of them leaving and the "wows" that Darren and Joe pulled off are farther between. But new people are coming in like Max Faleij who are absolutely capable of those wows.

    Either you are getting more critical because yourselves are getting better, or it's because there are much more to see than EM nowadays... or maybe you are mistaking sharper pictures for miniatures that have more faults... or you think that some reader submitted stuff is Eavy Metal... or I don't know. Maybe it's just the lack of masterclasses. I honestly don't think I am wrong in this.

    You might wonder why I defend them so hard. But they are people and hobbyists just like us that have had the fortune to paint full time and I think you guys are being wildly unfair.
    Last edited by Avelorn; 05-18-2015 at 01:04 PM.

  14. #34

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    Some real good points avelorn. I agree that as we all get better at painting the painting of others becomes more achievable and less 'WOW'. On the other hand if it's true they only get 4 hours for a character mini then the standards are hard to keep high. I take 4 hours to paint an eye !
    1. 'Painting is a companion with whom one may hope to walk a great part of life's journey.' W. Churchill
    Thank you for asking but I don't do commissions.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by ten ball View Post
    Some real good points avelorn. I agree that as we all get better at painting the painting of others becomes more achievable and less 'WOW'. On the other hand if it's true they only get 4 hours for a character mini then the standards are hard to keep high. I take 4 hours to paint an eye !
    It entirely depends on the project. For the one that they were doing when I asked they got around one to two days for an infantry miniature. They paint around 6 hours a day, rest is meetings etc. So it's 6-12h and sometimes much more for complex characters iirc.

  16. #36

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    Got it from a reliable source confirming that there will be the usual full GD later in the year ... date still to be confirmed.
    1. 'Painting is a companion with whom one may hope to walk a great part of life's journey.' W. Churchill
    Thank you for asking but I don't do commissions.

  17. #37

  18. #38

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    yeah as i bloody said all along! lol

    situation normal, move along!
    although i have to say im alittle interested in to actually painting a tank. anyone here even remotely interested in the tank competition?

  19. #39

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    Well that is good news. I hope it's going to be at the Ricoh arena as per last year. It was quite a nice set up although they need to do something about the stage area which seemed to be a bit thrown together at the last minute type affair. I would really help if GW actually posted info early rather then drip feeding it at the last minute
    What you leave behind is not what is written on your tombstone but what is written in the heart of others.

  20. #40

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    Yeah agree nels0n. guess it´s up to writing contracts with the arena and booking etc. don´t see why GW feels the need to be so secretive though. being up front and stating that there will be a golden demon in the UK should only profit both them and the painters... good communication should also be good for the general opinion about the company as well

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