Voting on Miniatures (or lack of it!) - Page 3
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 53 of 53

Thread: Voting on Miniatures (or lack of it!)

  1. #41

    Default

    So 5 months down the line since the last post and it's fair to say that nothing good has changed. For me personally all bar one of the minis I've posted this year have reached +50 votes and even a polite request on the forums succeeded in gaining only 2 extra votes ( and a snipe). For the last 2 years or so I have voted on minis during my lunch break - as I have believed that you can't bitch about non-voting if you don't put in the time and vote yourself. I have come close to thinking that there is no f'ing point as it doesn't seem to do any good.

    I did some research and looked at the lower etchelons of the rankings (Click on 'Top Artists', scroll to the bottom and click on page 190). I looked at every 5th page and at first was surprised that there were no rankings with new postings from 2013/2014 onwards. Now a lot of those near the bottom were people from years ago who posted a handful of entries, got a ranking and then for whatever reason left the hobby, stopped posting, etc, etc. There were however some where the highest rated mini they had was from 2013. They had posted higher rated minis since then but because they hadn't reached the 50+ votes it didn't count. So in essence despite their best efforts their ranking had stayed the same/slipped down. This was true of personal rankings up to around 4,200 out of the 9,400 odd; in other words for at least half of the people on CMoN their rankings have not changed in 2 years despite posting better pics.

    This does also raise the question as to why I didn't see many entries of the lower rankings from the last year or so, despite having personally voted on a large quantity of them over the last 2 years or so. The simple reason is that they don't feature because they don't have a ranking. They have never achieved 5 postings where they have achieved 50+ votes.

    CMoN has become a place where only the elite or those who are prepared to sell themselves on social media can gain the required number of votes. For the rest of us we languish in the shadows never moving in the rankings (for those lucky enough to have joined pre 2013 and actually have a ranking). It also means that those same people don't necessarily get a true rating per entry as the fewer votes you get the rating can get affected by snipers - and you don't have to get just a '1' to be sniped.

    All this adds up to me finally losing my desire to help out - and say 'Sod it' I'll find something else to do instead of voting.

    I still like the fact that CMoN is a fantastic library of images for all types of minis - but the voting system has finally run me down.
    What you leave behind is not what is written on your tombstone but what is written in the heart of others.

  2. #42
    Brushlicker gohkm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Singapore / Australia
    Posts
    1,402
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    CMON has been a popularity contest for a long time now. I use it mostly as a repository of my pics. The votes don't mean anything to me. Of late, though, I have become quite interested Iin seeing how quickly my scores drop.

    The winner to date is my latest model - in 3 votes, it dropped from 6 to 5. I'm going to have to work harder and see if plan get a better rate of decrease.
    Models completed in 2016 so far: 16
    Models in WIP: 22

    tp://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/gohkm

  3. #43

    Default

    I still vote but not as regularly as I used to also I rarely post here these days. The voting system has been broken for the last three or four years. As I have said before elsewhere I love the forums here spend all my time on them great place but if I want to post its putty and paint.

    Your not the only one to say all these true things and I applaud the fact you've stuck it out so long but no one in charge is going to clean house i.e. clean out all the old dead years out of date ranking positions for folk long gone this NEEDS to be done as the hobby has moved on hugely over the last ten years. Also the +50 and 5 has to go it's useless. 10 far better. In fact the whole site needs a total revamp its very dated. It's the online equivalent of a great grandmothers decor.

    All that said I still love CMON.
    Victis hostibus tuis tibi rapitur videre et audire fletum mulierum. (or as near as google can do it!)
    Here be my ranking=
    Here be my gallery http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/AndyG

  4. #44

    Default

    I turned the scores off long ago. CMON has many problems - ignore them. The WIP threads are the main reason I am here, great gang all around I still post to the gallery, but it's little more than a way to keep my works together.
    "Remember, you can't spell paint without a little pain."

    Blog: almostperftec.blogspot.ca
    Instagram: almost_zab
    DeviantArt Handle: AlmostZab
    Art Amino Handle: Almost Perftec Painting
    P&P: Neil Szabo

  5. #45

    Default

    in all respect there is little difference cmon or p&p, same shit different name. its still a race to become buddies with loads of people or gettin' famous to get the highest score. i know people having a rough time getting 10 votes at p&p. and i also know some great names in the hobby that for different reasons, removed themselves from p&p (bohun, for example).

    while im not defending cmon, the glory days are gone for the site, but a great source of browsing inspiration.

    Again a gallery totally without score had been my first pick anyday (someone build me a webpage please!)

  6. #46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gohkm View Post
    ...I have become quite interested Iin seeing how quickly my scores drop.
    The winner to date is my latest model - in 3 votes, it dropped from 6 to 5.

    8 to 4 in 3 or 4 votes was my favorite so far before the snipe-correct kicked in (the grey harlequin in the gallery)

    Quote Originally Posted by nels0nmac View Post
    ... or those who are prepared to sell themselves on social media can gain the required number of votes.
    a. so true
    b. welcome to 2013+

    Quote Originally Posted by SkelettetS View Post
    and i also know some great names in the hobby that for different reasons, removed themselves from p&p (bohun, for example).
    even if only in private, could you tell me why ?
    Forgot, that it works again.

  7. #47
    Brushlicker gohkm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Singapore / Australia
    Posts
    1,402
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    http://legionofthecow.com/2015/12/16...hun-stupnicki/

    Bohun has quite clearly stated why he quit P&P.
    Models completed in 2016 so far: 16
    Models in WIP: 22

    tp://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/gohkm

  8. #48

    Default

    Now that I have given up on voting I will see if I can spend some time on the forums instead, or maybe just flick through postings and make comments. I will still post pictures of my latest work here - as a record of my work and also to add to the great library of images that is CMoN.

    As parting 'suggestions' to the voting issues - plenty has been said before and some of the ideas have been mooted on various forum pages by others - here is what I think might help, although to be honest as with all previous suggestions from myself and lots of others they will probably be ignored.

    1. Voting may have had it's day, so either find ways to increase voting or come up with a new system with a more achievable goal of getting a ranking - or just ditch the ranking system.
    2. Ways to increase voting - separate auctions from everyone else - so we don't repeatedly see the same crappy minis repeated time and again because they don't sell - they're crappy after all. Get people to use photo manipulation software to combine images - this can be a suggestion from CMoN with links to various free software that enables users to do this and is pointed out at the time that someone joins CMoN. This means fewer daily postings so easier to vote on a rnage of different minis.
    3. Make the sytem more relevant to today. Currently the ranking system is base on everything that has ever been posted since CMoN was created. This makes it incredibly difficult to climb the rankings if you have to compete against everyone that has come before - for those who actually have a ranking (see postings above). I would suggest having an archive where images over a certain age - say 5 years - are put. They would still be accessable and searchable but would not count towards a persons ranking and would not feature in the voting algorithim which shows random minis. This would give a higher precedence to more recent postings and make them more likely to be voted on. It would also mean that your ranking is based on what you have recently painted rather than resting on your laurels on what you painted 5,10 or 15 years ago (and in some cases not painted a thing since). It would make for a more dynamic system and dare I say it - fairer?
    What you leave behind is not what is written on your tombstone but what is written in the heart of others.

  9. #49

    Default

    All good suggestions however I think there is not a snowballs chance in hell of any changes being made at all
    Victis hostibus tuis tibi rapitur videre et audire fletum mulierum. (or as near as google can do it!)
    Here be my ranking=
    Here be my gallery http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/AndyG

  10. #50

    Default

    Yes, i feel bad for the daemons in charge here too :P

    Name:  tumblr_mdv14mgXYj1qkaj0no1_1280.jpg
Views: 88
Size:  152.9 KB
    "Remember, you can't spell paint without a little pain."

    Blog: almostperftec.blogspot.ca
    Instagram: almost_zab
    DeviantArt Handle: AlmostZab
    Art Amino Handle: Almost Perftec Painting
    P&P: Neil Szabo

  11. #51
    Freak! Demihuman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Santa Cruz, California
    Posts
    2,365
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalidane View Post
    The most beneficial simple change would be to the algorithm that determines what mini comes up after submitting a vote.

    Something like:
    50% chance of something submitted in the past 24 hours
    25% chance of something submitted in the past week
    10% chance of something submitted in the past month
    5% chance of something submitted in the past 3 months
    5% chance of something submitted in the past year
    5% chance of anything

    A mini submitted in the past 24 hours matches all of these criteria so has a really good chance of showing up. Now much less likely to get 14 out of 20 pics being of some guys army. A chance of something cool you didn't see ages ago. A submission that has been paid to be promoted can have +25% weighting. Happy days.

    The odds can be played with the get the kind of expected values they want.
    Yep. I don't need to vote on mediocre paint jobs from 10 years ago. Or 37 crappy photos from yesterday for that matter....

  12. #52

    Default

    Jup, it's quite sad. Most pictures get at max 27-33 votes and that's it. Per day CMON receives like 20 new submissions. That means only like 600 votes get registered on average per day. That's quite low considering the traffic the site has (according to forum-posts and image-views).

    Maybe there could be made something to encourage members voting - and voting fair in that regard, not just bombing 6s to fill a quota.

    I also agree that it may be a good idea to rank very old pictures differently. Painting quality changed insanely over the last decade. Pictures from 2005 that were rated 8-9 now actually are more a 6-7. Not because people rate lower, but because the top-notch-paintings got soooo much better, that in comparison, these old top-paintings are now far lower grades. Taking this into consideration might be a good idea. 10 year old entries, should they still contribute to people's scores?
    I'm also with nels0nmac regarding inactive members. He is a really active guy for years and checking his rank and pics compared to some 10 year old entries from an inactive member is quite sad.

    I actually doubt anything will change. Votes just will become even less over time.
    Last edited by Hendarion; 01-12-2016 at 02:09 PM.

  13. #53

    Default

    Hendarion is spot on. I search the gallery frequently for specific models to see how others painted them. You can clearly see how the bar has been raised over the years as highly talented painters came to CMON and existing members developed their skills. There is really nothing that can be done to adjust the scores so they are all using the same benchmark.

    The unfortunate part (which probably can be corrected) is that most of the people that post their pictures in the gallery do not vote on other people's work. I have 29 minis in the gallery and have voted on 1,632 minis. I see lots of painters that have posted dozens, if not over 100 minis and have cast less than one vote for each mini uploaded.

    I will show my age here for a minute...

    Back before the internet, you would log on to a BBS that was hosted in somebody's home to download software for your computer. They all had a point system that would issue you credits for every program you uploaded. Those credits could be used to download software. (1 upload would allow 3 to 5 downloads) New users got a few credits, but as soon as they were gone you couldn't download more until you gave something back to the community. This would work here as well. New users can upload 10 photos to the gallery. After that, they would need to buy credits or cast votes to earn credits. (10 votes = 1 credit)
    .................................................. ........
    Here is a link to the stuff I have painted:
    http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/MrJim

    Here is a link to my WIP thread:
    http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/...rJim-s-ADD-WIP

    Here is a link to my favorite Miniatures Website:
    http://www.competitionminis.com/
    .................................................. ........

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Privacy Policy  |   Terms and Conditions  |   Contact Us  |   The Legion


Copyright © 2001-2018 CMON Inc.

-->