Its been a while, so, WTF is up in Englad? - Page 2
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Thread: Its been a while, so, WTF is up in Englad?

  1. #21

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    Originally posted by finn17
    It\'s not an insult. It\'s a simple statement of fact from someone who believes that they get more than one crack at the cherry. If you look at it from that perspective you can see that it is entirely reasonable???
    It is because I find this sort of blatant generalizing unreasonable that I detest that sort of statement. One of my best freinds is a devout christian. He never judges me as a bad person because I always try to do my best REWARD(Note a satanist would only do it for a reward) or not.

    It is because of that I find the statement offensive. By saying that he was saying that what is being said above applies to me simply because I am an atheist. Reguardless of intent it is highly insulting.

    Originally posted by finn17
    As a fellow atheist, I understand where you are coming from.... :D

    Most atheist\'s want to do the \'right thing\' because they believe implicitly that it\'s right...

    Not \'cos someone else told them to.

    Also, atheist\'s want to do what\'s right, not because of some reward in an alternative life, but largely because they have invested in their children and therefore raping the planet is not a good idea evolutionary wise;)
    correct finn, which is why atheists are not as terrible as the satanist. Satanists by belief are anti-church. Atheists can swing either way. I am of the belief that I do what is right by me because it makes the world a better place, bit by bit.

    I am not perfectly right all the time but I strive for it. Also dare I say that I have met many MANY theists(including christians) who are far less self-less then I am. Again, which is why I was so offended.

    Alot of christians feel that they have the right to bash all other religons and/or those without religons. This is typically based on some holier then thou attitude. Personaly, that sort of attitude according to their doctrine makes them that much less christian.

  2. #22

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    Originally posted by Smoth

    correct finn, which is why atheists are not as terrible as the satanist. Satanists by belief are anti-church. Atheists can swing either way.
    Well, that would be closer to being agnostic. Agnostic\'s are the \"flip-flopping democrats\" of the theological world.

    May they burn in some sort of fiery inferno, be it diety-related or mundane. They\'re not really sure which they prefer......:D

  3. #23
    t_haye2
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    I get where you\'re coming from, but i do find it interesting that you say satanists will only do good for a reward. In actual fact, according to their philosophy, they will do good if it pleases them, which is a reward in itself, but can any human claim to do good out of purely selfless reasons?

    When humans help other humans, deep down, they do it to feel good about themselves, which is the actual reward you speak of. i think 9 out of 10 people will do good because they want to feel like a better person, be it giving to the homeless, helping out at charity fairs or helping a granny cross the street. Integrally, they do it so next time when they look in the mirror their conscience can say\' aren\'t I good\'.

    A satanist recognizes this trait in human nature, and instead of denying it, embraces it, and will do good whenever it pleases him/her. A lot of religious followers(any religion, and note I\'m not saying ALL here, just a lot...) do not recognise, or deny this trait, and that makes them hypocrites.

    @ nelson: i didn\'t know democrats in america wore flip-flops! lollollollol....sorry....

    i also think it;s kinda funny we\'re having this discussion on sunday....;) well, it\'s sunday in old blighty.

  4. #24

    Default Smoth: You are writing yourself out of the game..

    You are not allowed to be offended....get it! It is not \'life and death\' it is friends chatting..

    We are all friends who believe in different things...

    If I thought anyone said anything offensive I would close the thread, so as long as people respond to each other with respect and understanding we can talk/debate etc.

    Otherwise this goes \'plop\' and I wouldn\'t like to be the last person who crossed the line..:flip:

  5. #25
    t_haye2
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    can I go \'plop\' in the meantime?(i did warn I\'ve been drinking too many energy drinks earlier, in case anybody wonders...)

    lollollollol....plop......

  6. #26

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    Originally posted by finn17
    You are not allowed to be offended....
    Awwww...... :(

  7. #27
    Official Freak Bar Witch wiccanpony's Avatar
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    ;):D plop..plop..fizz..fizz...\"oh, what a relief it is” sorry a bit of the sillies caught up with me lol

    edit....I\'m off for some dinner, please keep my seat warm;)

  8. #28
    t_haye2
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    nah, and i felt we were almost connecting on a spiritual level there.....plop......plopopfizzz...

  9. #29

    Default Well...

    Originally posted by Smoth
    Awwww...... :(
    If we allow offense, then we really have to ban religious/political discussions.

    Apart from the fact \'offense\' is not allowed according to the TOS, it really makes for grim viewing for most of the other viewers:D

    (Please note my tongue is firmly in my cheek!!)

    We are all entitled to our diverse views...The mere fact that we have a lively discussion between people of such diverse beliefs is something to cherish;)

  10. #30
    t_haye2
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    yup, and i\'m plopping off to bed, to worship the god of sleep and dreaming......

  11. #31

    Default Hmmm...

    Originally posted by t_haye2
    ......the gods of sleep and dreaming......
    Two of my personal favourites:D

  12. #32
    the_alleycat
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    Damn, i wander of to bu cute things from eBay and miss alively discussion.

    For all the humanists out there, Bentham pointed out that without a shared sense of morality life would be: \"Nasty brutish and short.\"

    Wicca is a positive thing, it revives the ieda of the sacred female which was long suppressed by the Catholic church, [but if the learned ones start talking about mary magdelene, you may want to get a coffee first].

    The morals of Christianity are no bad thing, it\'s the dogma i could do without. If this offends you, forgive me :innocent:

    What really impresses me is that a conversation about one of the three sacred cows you should never talk about in the pub [sex, politics and religion], has been discussed in a respectful, open-minded and reasonable manner :D

    For referrence, i\'m a Neo-Pantheist... I blieve that everything people belive is possible and not mutually exclusive.

    My census said Jedi though, we\'re an officially recognised religion too lol

    Now, a far more important question, how do i get an avatar of my own?

  13. #33

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    Originally posted by the_alleycat

    For all the humanists out there, Bentham pointed out that without a shared sense of morality life would be: \"Nasty brutish and short.\"
    Well, exactly, and what I am saying is that people don\'t need religion to have morals. There are basic, common sense tenets of human behaviour that any good person should follow, whether they are religious or not. That is a shared sense of morality in itself.

    Basically, if a person is the type to lie, steal, cheat, or kill, religion isn\'t gonna do shit to stop them. Christians have been lying, sinning, and manipulating their religion to suit their needs for years.

    Sure, there are completely honest, good, christians everywhere, but they would be basically the same whether they followed a god or not. I haven\'t been raised christian, but I think I\'m a fairly caring, sensitive person, and far more so than many, many christians I know directly or indirectly. What stops me from killing people? Is it the fear of being smote mightily with a lightning bolt, or burning for eternity? Nope. It\'s cause I\'m an inherently good person. To some extent.....:D

    I think if we were all athiests, the world would be a much happier place. A large chunk of prejudice and hate as the result of religious differences would be removed. Of course, that hate would probably find different conduits, but that\'s another matter.

    EDIT: Avatar? Go to \"Your account\" on the main gallery page, and there should be a field just below where you enter your e-mail address, homepage, etc. You can choose from the list, or upload your own. :)

  14. #34
    the_alleycat
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    Really? I can\'t find a way to upload my own and i don\'t want to borrow anyone else\'s.

    I figure if i\'m gonna hang round here i should really put a profile up.

  15. #35

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    You mean there\'s more to you than \"I like cats\"? :D

    Go ahead with an avatar from the list, there aren\'t that many people on the forums for the amount of avatars on the list, so no worries about repeats.

  16. #36
    Coffin Dodger / Keymaster airhead's Avatar
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    Smoth,

    No offence was meant. If any was perceived, I am sincerely sorry and ask your forgiveness.

    \"... as it is the only one they get.\"

    I am sure I should have expounded more. I was only making a comparison in that both believe that this is the only life you get - no afterlife. Not that either was more moral or better or that they were even the same in any other way. As opposed to many of the eastern religions that believe they will get several attempts at living right. Or, Christians who believe we only get one trip through here as well, but then we are looking forward to an afterlife.

    I think deep down inside, we all want to be \"good\" and do the \"right\" thing. But we cannot agree on what that is.

    I am told to do good works because I am saved. Works will not get me into heaven. Am I perfect? NO, far from it. Do I still make mistakes? Obviously or I would not have needed to apologize at the start of this thread. I am still human and still prone to errors - as are the rest of us.

    Again, any insult was not intended and I am deeply sorry if I have hurt your feelings or our relationship.


  17. #37
    the_alleycat
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    Originally posted by airhead
    Smoth,

    No offence was meant. If any was perceived, I am sincerely sorry and ask your forgiveness.
    That only works if he\'s a Christian lol

    [I\'m sooo sorry, just couldn\'t help myself, could hear Bill Hicks in my head. Sorry.]

  18. #38

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    thanks airhead.

    As for my atheism. I am one simply because I don\'t deep inside of me belive anything. I have seen christians stare death in the face because they believe there is an afterlife. Personaly I wish I would believe that stuff. It would make life easier.







    to continue earlier disscussion
    As for good, bad and rewards... I like to think that everytime some does something nice to me that it is because someone was nice to them... while it is entirely idealistic... the one thing I do believe is that if people start acting decent to one another then the world will be better for all of us.

    e.g. I help someone pick up something they drop. That person feels good and in turn helps maybe 2 others... sometime later their are several others who have had a positive day. I may not see any of the after effect of what I did but someone else will.

    So there are times I don\'t get that warm fuzzy feeling helping people I hate. However, I do hope that my kindness will be passed to them and then on to someone else. I am not always that sunny but I try. It has to start somewhere right?:D

  19. #39
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Well I am really glad this thread came up. I\'ve actualy learned a something more about this world. (Thanks Tammy. :) )

    Just to add my two pence to the pile: I was raised in a (Largly Christian household) That is, we followed the Protestant Ethos but weren\'t Church go\'ers. (Ok I got kicked out of the house to go to Sunday School and even got a prize for attendance. :o.)
    Over the (many) years since then I have gradually come to the realisation that I am an Atheist. That is to say that I have no belief in a God.

    However I do not by that statement disavow the Ethics I was raised to believe in. I just find that they are tenets and philiosophies that were passed on from a person (or people) who wanted to share a point of view and help the world become a somewhat better place.

    My experience and self education have brought me to believe that everyone has the right to find their own personal philosophy or belief system. It has also, and I say this with great regret, shown me that the two major factions in the Christian church have been, corrupt and bigoted throughout most of their history. The more I have learned the more I want nothing to do with either of them.

    I completely respect the right of a person to follow their own path in life, all I ask in return is that I am allowed to do the same.

    I found a personal philosophy, which I try to live by:
    [align=center]\"First and above all things do no harm\"[/align]

    My respect and admiration is freely given to all on this site who have contributed to this thread without bias, retoric or cant.


  20. #40
    t_haye2
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    Originally posted by the_alleycat

    For referrence, i\'m a Neo-Pantheist... I blieve that everything people belive is possible and not mutually exclusive.
    Heh.... and that brings us to practitioners of chaos magic, who believe that as long as you suspend disbelief in rituals, any god/belief system will work for you...bit like Terry Pratchett in small gods,but the other way around. Beleive in something hard enough, and itwill be true, giving you power.

    chaos magicians borrow from every system out there to achieve their goals, by believing nothing is true, everything is possible. They take the id or self out of the calculation ofd belief, and tka eit a step further, you don\'t exist, neither does god, so you might as well worship a tin can, and that will listen to your prayers as much as god will. Makes for interesting rituals, where the gods of the aforementioned discworld Universe are called upon for instance, seemingly having the same effect as calling on god or satan....

    ah, the underbelly of alternative living/religion....

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