Sadly, another disappointing WoK experience - Page 2
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Thread: Sadly, another disappointing WoK experience

  1. #21

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    Yeah it is often so that the Combat is like a getting bigger and bigger with every engagement and at some point you just think "Well that escalated quikly" and all of your troops are battleing at some point. Well of course that is how it feels to me. Also you have to see the motivation as a pressurepoint. You should choose one which seem quite good accomplishable for you and try to build up pressure with the moral loss so that your opponent has to act. Also try to optimise your army for the motivation. So choose one which plays into your army composition and somehow counteract the one of your opponent.
    I know this is hard at first but will be much better in time after you get a deep lerning of the game.

  2. #22

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    For the motivation balance issues, I agree that some work in an almost "Rock, Paper, Scissors" way. That said, when arguments have broken out about it I've encouraged people to write them down before a match and flip at the same time. Picking a motivation, along with army building, represents the strategic part of the game. It's something I like about WoK, honestly, as I find a lot of mini games are either strategy or tactics, not both. m0n5t3r0u5's mechanic is interesting though. It could make an interesting quirk for tournaments.

    Full disclosure, I'm not really a fan of this and am merely spitballing. To propose an alternative (which would only work in friendlies) is to have bidding. In Axis and Allies games I used to play, you would bid for Axis. Essentially, the lowest bid could buy units at the value of the bid before the game started. It was a balance to the Axis often losing in the original edition unless they used specific tactics, making for predictable games. So, do something similar with motivations, but bid morale. Essentially, if you want to have the powerful motivation, sacrifice morale. Your opponent counters and this goes back and forth until both parties are happy. If the instigator wins, they get the motivation and start at the lower morale. If the opponent wins, the motivation isn't used and they start with their bid subtracted from morale. Highest initial morale (pre-bidding) starts the process.

    For tokens, here's something to try: Put a dot/name/identifier on the rim of a model's base. Put the cards in sleeves and use a dry/wet erase marker to track things. It's not the best, but it works fairly well. It's sort of like how Warmachine players track life without marring the cards.

  3. #23

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    Re bidding, how do you decide which motivations are powerful? Much of this seems highly contextual. Ie, specific players within a group. Certain factions with a motivation, or certain faction pairing + motivation pairings. Or just certain motivations vs others.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by paradox1 View Post
    Re bidding, how do you decide which motivations are powerful? Much of this seems highly contextual. Ie, specific players within a group. Certain factions with a motivation, or certain faction pairing + motivation pairings. Or just certain motivations vs others.
    It's completely contextual to the players. If you pick Sever the Head, and my army is sort of weak to it, I'll bid to mitigate the morale loss. However, if you take Burn it Down and I'm not afraid at all, I'll let you have it. The next day, with a different army, I may bid differently in the same situation. YOU determine the morale value of the motivation in question at the moment.

  5. #25

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    I think some form of draft mechanic for motivations would greatly improve match ups. I know I've had some great games thanks to a great combination of motivations and rough games where the match up wasn't there.

    I would strongly recommend the skirmish level for WoK. I have played one battle level game, and we immediately went back to skirmish and haven't looked back. It's a great combination of offering decent force flexibility and keeping record keeping/round time down.

    I hope your future games are more enjoyable!

  6. #26

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    I'll just echo the last few posts about the motivations, yes some are unbalanced against each other, but especially since the 2.0 ones, they have evened out the over all ones (the one about burning supplies before broke the total amount of moral that can be lost based on # of leaders before and a few others also broke it but by maxing out below the standard under the old rules). What you need to do when picking motivations is look at their fraction, think about what that fraction generally specializes in (which is a bit of knowledge, but with all the rules online, is not a lot, and again, this is general, not knowing exactly what all their models do and every rule they have), what your army specializes in and what kind of force you have. Then pick your motivation to play to your strengths or their general weaknesses. They are all generally even, but if you pick one that you are good at, the enemy is weak at and they don't it can lead to a unbalanced game, but you learn from that. Maybe just mark ones that really didn't work out.

    I usually play against Hadross with my Shael Han, we've both run into games or forces that we try that really didn't work out. We take a note of that and then, a few weeks later when we play, we try something else. Generally though our games are fun and right down to the wire, with a few games where we're both negative, others where we it's like a 1 or 2 to zero and frequently comes down to the last few rolls.

    Another thing that you could try is taking written notes on an army list, and doing what some of the tournaments do which is that players cannot repeat a motivation choice within x-number of games, which does prevent of the really outrageous matchup-s between some fractions and some armies.

    Also, if you're playing Nasier, your Swordsmen's 7inch move or your pelgarath's ability to take a hit both play into breaking the deadlock, pushing up the pelgarath so that they either your opponent engages or you do and then pounce is great. Or using that extra distance so he has to run away or you get the charge, he'll eventually run all the way off the board, or all the way past the objectives that you can burn for your motivation.

    For other armies, having models that can pull troops or leaders forward are great ways to break that deadlock.

  7. #27

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    Well based on what you said in the OP, if he is consistently taking that approach with his tactics(running away until you charge in) then you can either take a motivation that forces him to come to you more, like an objective based one or use it to your advantage. If he won't engage then heard his units into a corner and remove his ability to maneuver and then slaughter them with aoe attacks.

  8. #28

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    For those of you interested in actually seeing the battle that made me start this thread, check out this two-part video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24C1oXxI3zk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPiPv8BoQZI

    I'm sure more experienced players will be able to pick it apart and find lots of errors and poor tactics - please do so, I'd love to learn from it!
    The Esoteric Order of Gamers
    High quality materials for the dedicated devotee of immersive, thematic tabletop games.

    http://www.orderofgamers.com

  9. #29

    Default WOK experience

    I'm not an expert with WOK but it seems the Nasier was playing into Teknes strategy. Teknes was able to get more units into fighting position than Nasier. It seemed the whole game, some Nasier units were not in battle while the rest of the group was dying. Teknes out maneuvered Nasier into poor positions. Nasier should not have obliged but done anything else.

    If I was playing against a retreating Teknes, I would have fainted on one side of the board with my fastest units pushing forward, threatening as many Teknes as possible. While the rest of the Nasier army on the other side of the board would isolate the smallest group of units retreating and overwhelmed said units before reinforcements could be brought to bear. Then the fainting unit would reroute to assit the main force by delaying the rest of the Teknes.

    Finally, you should check out the new motivations. They are simpler and work much better. As for picking motivations, each player should pick motivations without knowing what the other player is picking then reveal motivations simultaneously. The rules say nothing about picking a motivation, then changing motivations after seeing the opponent. Think of motivations as orders from the general...a military unit can't change a generals orders.
    Last edited by Maverick_; 01-29-2017 at 03:02 PM.

  10. #30

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    Thanks for the feedback Maverick. Yes, as Nasier I was playing into Teknes hands, mostly because I had to get to grips with him, and he kept pulling back because he wanted to engage me in his deployment zone, and thus more easily fufill his motivation. Feinting with lots of strength on one side would have been a good idea. I guess I only realised what was happening after we'd all set up and had started the game and played a turn or two. I should have just charged in at high speed at a place of my choosing and forced him into battle before he could retreat too far, I suppose.

    We did use the new motivations, and we did pick without knowing the other side's motivation; the general consensus from WoK players, however, seems to be that some motivations don't work well together (like this combination) and also that players can respond to what their opponent picks with a better pick - though how that works practically I have no idea. There's no real rule on this issue, it just says in the rules 'players pick motivations'.
    The Esoteric Order of Gamers
    High quality materials for the dedicated devotee of immersive, thematic tabletop games.

    http://www.orderofgamers.com

  11. #31

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    Universal, I noticed a couple of things rewatching the vid. When taunting, have other units nearby to attack the taunted unit. This will keep the taunting unit from being crippled/killed/occupied too long. Also the Great Horn is an infantry killing machine. When the Greathorn was fighting the "big teknes monster", that Greathorn could have been mowing thru linemen or a pile of "pork"....shreded barbaqued pork...mmm good. I also thought I saw some leaders overly exposed to the enemy. Sometimes it can't be helped but try to keep infantry around the leaders to protect them. Teknes was targeting those leaders to handicap the rest of the units...he even said some time during the vid that he was annoyed that some Nasier infantry were in the way, keeping Teknes units from rushing a leader.
    Last edited by Maverick_; 01-30-2017 at 11:18 AM.

  12. #32

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    Excellent tips. Yeah, we certainly made some newbie mistakes!
    The Esoteric Order of Gamers
    High quality materials for the dedicated devotee of immersive, thematic tabletop games.

    http://www.orderofgamers.com

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