New Guy..Old Guy...returning and asking a few basic questions from ya'll.
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Thread: New Guy..Old Guy...returning and asking a few basic questions from ya'll.

  1. #1
    Member USMC 1369's Avatar
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    Cool New Guy..Old Guy...returning and asking a few basic questions from ya'll.

    The user name says it all about what i am. I started painting back in the early 2000s. I entered a model into GD in 05,06...somewhere in there and got a honorable mention.
    I am use to painting in the old Games Workshop style of Heavy Metal. Looking at the pictures and forums this style has proceeded to be counted as table top Level mini.

    To compete in todays painting arena do you have to understand and display the ability to paint smooth and NMM to even be considered a contender? On returning and lurking, I started looking at some major artist works: Alfonso Giraldes "banshee",Sergio Rubio,.Andy Gallipsy. They put out some amazing stuff!! Then i ran across an article by Banshee that talked about getting away from smoothness http://figurementors.com/masters-int...-giraldes-pt-1 . I am asking for your point of view on this.

    I have also started looking at the new miniatures that are available. These are nothing like the old GW minis. How are these artist getting all this super fine detail?? Has the craft of sculpting and artist improved that much since I left?? and I see that alot of minis are now resin.

    Thanks for putting out some great artistic minis on this site, I have alot to learn.

    Thanks,
    USMC

  2. #2

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    Welcome
    1. 'Painting is a companion with whom one may hope to walk a great part of life's journey.' W. Churchill
    Thank you for asking but I don't do commissions.

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    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Figure Painting has and continues to evolve.
    GW’s 3 layer style of the early 2000’s has faded into “gaming standard” and yes techniques have expanded as has the quality of Painting (and paints).
    But don’t worry even old dogs like me can still learn new tricks.
    I believe in Karma, what you give, is what you get returned. Affirmation; Savage Garden
    Oh look my IQ results came in:-
    , and proud of it.

  4. #4

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    Yes it evolved. A lot. But you can still achive display levels with GW's style, it's just harder.

    No, NMM and smooth blending is not mandatory. After the NMM craze of 2008-2012 it faded and now normal metallics are just as valid again (altough painted with NMM in mind, so no longer metal+wash+drybrush, done). Smooth blendings while important but atm textures, color harmony, etc seems more in vogue.

    Yep, sculpting has improved a lot. Both traditional and digital.
    Resin is the cheapest to make, holds detail well, light, so no wonder most if not all small studios use it instead of metal/plastic.
    Forgot, that it works again.

  5. #5

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    Welcome my friend!!!

  6. #6

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    There's no arena mon frere, just people painting pewter...

  7. #7

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    Welcome to the forums. You'd PM'd me a couple questions that I though I'd answer to the best of my ability here. A lot of the regulars are more skilled and knowledgable than me and will likely supplement or correct any of my comments.

    As for model detail improvemens in the last decade, I think it is due to a few things including better/more traditional sculpters, more market competition, improved casting equipment, and 3D sculpting. The detail that can be achieved in a 3 D sculpts is crazy good, but sometimes it doesn't translate to a finished model. As I undestand, once a 3D sculpt is completed a master is made on a high quality 3D printer. An artisan cleans up that print and it is used to cast some master sculpts. The master sculpts are then used to prode production molds. Something to be careful of is occasionally company may show the digital sculpt or professional paint jobs of the masters and suggest the are accurate representations of the production minis which isn't aoways the case. So be aware.

    As for paints all the hobby brands have pros and cons and you see artists getting good results from any brand and many of the people on these forums use a mix of brands. I would suggest staying away from artist type tube paints as the pigment suze and d nsity isn't quite the same as what is morpst effective for ministure painting. If you need some discount paints to get started local hobby lobbies carry a limited number of Vallejo Model Colors and if you get a Hobby Lobby coupon they can be had reasonably. I use a variety or Reaper, Vallejo, Games Workshop, P3, Scale 75, Army Painter, and some no brand hobby paint for my sporadic painting. You will find all kinds of paint preferences in various forum threads.

    If your astheitic leans toward the GW 'Eavy metal style check out Sproket, Meph, Andy G, Ten Ball, and especially BloodAsMedium's WIP threads. They are all top knotch painters that I would say pay cloae homage to the 'Eavy Metal style, but amped up to awesome display quality. If you want to move to other styles there are numerous award winning painters active in the forums.

    Whether your goal is table top, display, or just simple pleasure I suggest following the wips on this forum and starting your own for feedback. It is nuts around here, but we are mostly friendly nuts.

    -Mike

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by KruleBear View Post
    I would suggest staying away from artist type tube paints as the pigment suze and d nsity isn't quite the same as what is morpst effective for ministure painting.
    After attending a few Workshops from Jarhead I have to disagree with this.
    The paint/Pigment quality of the tried "Schminke Primacryl" was insane compared to the usual model paints (GW-P3-etc). I could easily mix a super purple from blue and red. Something you can't really do with the Vallejo-P3-GW-... paints.
    The pigment size is about the same maybe even smaller.

    Only 2 drawbacks:
    - new paintline to buy...
    - they are expensive (35ml tube starts from 5,50euro (cca 6usd, for white) and some colors go up to 9-10 (10-11usd, some blues/greens))
    Forgot, that it works again.

  9. #9

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    The user name says it all about what i am.
    I absolutely don't get the reference!

    I wouldn't worry too much and just get painting. There's probably hundreds of thousands of painters out there but the spotlight only falls on a hundred. I swear some stuff is photo-realistic but they don't always win competitions and also don't always bring a smile to my face. Sometimes I see a mini and it just makes me grin, and it might be because of a sense of character it portrays, unusual colours, a break from the norm or something quirky.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardo523 View Post
    I absolutely don't get the reference!
    I didn't either, but according to urban dictionary:

    "U.S. Marine Corps slang for unlucky cocksucker. Playing off of the 4 digit military occupational specialty (MOS) codes used. 13 being unlucky and 69 representing oral sex. Signifying an unusually distastefull assignment."
    Forgot, that it works again.

  11. #11
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel Castro View Post
    There's no arena mon frere, just people painting pewter...
    And that’s an Old School statement if there ever was.
    I believe in Karma, what you give, is what you get returned. Affirmation; Savage Garden
    Oh look my IQ results came in:-
    , and proud of it.

  12. #12
    Superfreak!!! Dragonsreach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KruleBear View Post
    I would suggest staying away from artist type tube paints as the pigment suze and d nsity isn't quite the same as what is morpst effective for ministure painting.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXXxxx View Post
    After attending a few Workshops from Jarhead I have to disagree with this.
    The paint/Pigment quality of the tried "Schminke Primacryl" was insane compared to the usual model paints (GW-P3-etc). I could easily mix a super purple from blue and red. Something you can't really do with the Vallejo-P3-GW-... paints.
    The pigment size is about the same maybe even smaller.

    Only 2 drawbacks:
    - new paintline to buy...
    - they are expensive (35ml tube starts from 5,50euro (cca 6usd, for white) and some colors go up to 9-10 (10-11usd, some blues/greens))
    Going to agree with MaXXxxx on this both Schminke and JoSonja are really high quality in pigment and density.
    Now the Proviso.... I find that they require a serious alteration in my approach to painting, so I’d suggest staying away from them until you get your MoJo in the groove.
    I believe in Karma, what you give, is what you get returned. Affirmation; Savage Garden
    Oh look my IQ results came in:-
    , and proud of it.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAXXxxx View Post
    After attending a few Workshops from Jarhead I have to disagree with this.
    The paint/Pigment quality of the tried "Schminke Primacryl" was insane compared to the usual model paints (GW-P3-etc). I could easily mix a super purple from blue and red. Something you can't really do with the Vallejo-P3-GW-... paints.
    The pigment size is about the same maybe even smaller.

    Only 2 drawbacks:
    - new paintline to buy...
    - they are expensive (35ml tube starts from 5,50euro (cca 6usd, for white) and some colors go up to 9-10 (10-11usd, some blues/greens))
    Well there are more drawbacks than that. There is a reason why you don't find some of these pigments in hobby paint and I also presume you mean the fluid versions and not Heavy body paints which most people think of when they think about tube paint.

    I have lots and lots of paint. I have started using Jo sonja, Turner and Golden Fluid which are all fluid artists acrylics but they are not a replacement for me, rather a complement. It's about style and technique what is the best tool for you.

    For small scale, like GW Eavy Metal, precise style. I still recommend GW, Vallejo, Scale Color or whatever. At least to start out with. For larger scales and to a more expressive style, like Jarhead, artist fluid acrylics are a great match!

    As for the smoothness thing. There has been amazing painters for all the part of our hobby not doing "smooth" stuff. From John Blanche onwards. However this hobby is also for good and worse competition oriented. And there smoothness is something that I think is easier to judge than style, combine that with the very precise style of GW which has been a large influence of course.

    I have to say there is a thing happening now with people seem to be implying that their rougher stuff is like more "artsy" IDK. The cool kids will always be the cool kids I guess. For me expressiveness is cool, smoothness is also cool. I believe in doing what you feel like to do and not listen too closely preachers from any camp.

    Doing more quick and expressive work makes you paint more miniatures though... instead of slugging away at the same miniature for hours and hours. And considering the mountain of lead I have I think I will explore that further.

  14. #14

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    Awesome discussion guys. I am not dissing artist paints (heck when I started I only used Liquitex heavy body tube paint or those cheap pots that come in paint by numbers kits as that was all that was available in my area). I have seen people use cheap craft paints, various artist acrylics, artist oils, and even testers enamels to great effect. But I agree with Avelorn that the paints typically marketed to miniature painters are what I would recommend for those starting out.

    I have never seen Schminke Primacryl in the USA, so will have to keep my eye open. Of course I don't see the Jo Sonja paints often either and I know they are pretty popular.

    For what it is worth I still use my heavy body Liquitex paints and cheap craft paints for certain applications

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avelorn View Post
    .
    Doing more quick and expressive work makes you paint more miniatures though... instead of slugging away at the same miniature for hours and hours. And considering the mountain of lead I have I think I will explore that further.
    This made me laugh! . I think there are several of us with the mountain of minis problem.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avelorn View Post
    I also presume you mean the fluid versions and not Heavy body paints which most people think of when they think about tube paint.

    I still recommend GW, Vallejo, Scale Color or whatever. At least to start out with. For larger scales and to a more expressive style, like Jarhead, artist fluid acrylics are a great match!

    As for the smoothness thing...
    no idea, the white I have is pretty thick, like a paste.
    I agree with that for start the paints made for minis are great.
    I don't know. The few I tried at the workshop + the white I have here give a pretty smooth finish. The artsy/rough/expressive finish is more from the fact, that they don't work as long on the part.
    not the best pic, but the head on the right was done with 4 primacryl colors (yellow, red, blue, white)+black. The paint itself if smooth enough. The transition not that much, but was painted from the 5 colors during 1 afternoon while also paying attention to the workshop and painting the left demonette. I just I had too much paint on the palette and didn't want to waste and throw it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KruleBear View Post
    I have never seen Schminke Primacryl in the USA, so will have to keep my eye open. Of course I don't see the Jo Sonja paints often either and I know they are pretty popular.
    For what it is worth I still use my heavy body Liquitex paints and cheap craft paints for certain applications
    Schminke is a german brand, so might be harder to find in the US. JoSonja... UK one I think.

    Altough I couldn't try it, but there are big differences between the art acrylics. For example while the mentioned "Primacryl" is great, the "Academie" (also from Schminke) has worse pigments and is rough so not recommended. (was mentioned at the workshop and while I did't try it myself I believe the opinion about it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by KruleBear View Post
    This made me laugh! . I think there are several of us with the mountain of minis problem.
    who doesn't
    Last edited by MAXXxxx; 06-14-2018 at 08:58 AM.
    Forgot, that it works again.

  17. #17

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    @MAXXxxx If you mean coverage even Heavy body titanium white is good diluted as it is such an opaque pigment.

  18. #18
    Member USMC 1369's Avatar
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    The original question I asked in a private message to a few great artist here.
    "Thank you for your comments on my first post. Still have a few questions.
    1. Are most of the new mini's computer sculpted then 3d printed? The intricate detail is amazing.
    2. I am a disabled veteran with epilepsy and get a small pension a month. I am hoping getting back into painting will help me with my condition. What are some good paints that can be acquired for very little money to start?"

    Maxx as far as the name you are correct. I am a Marine and 1369 stands for unlucky c@(k Sucker. the 1369 was for Harrier(Lawn Dart) Pilots and code for almost every lock that was used by the Engine Shop in the Squadron.
    Last edited by USMC 1369; 06-14-2018 at 06:26 PM.

  19. #19

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    Eh matey I’m no soldier and I firstly want to thank you for defending our country.im sorry for your disability. I was a former fighter and 7 years ago I lost function of my dominant arm declaring me permanently disabled. Painting saved my life and my psyche. I’m certain it will do the same for you. I agree with Adeline to get the paints that most folks used that claim they are made for miniature painting. gw I like but reaper master series is a very wonderful paint and most of them are great with very little thinning. Also scale 75 is something I use as well. I have every paint from every company but I find myself only using my favorite colors mainly and this limited pallets is how I keep my recognisable style. Ide start with some flesh sets, some browns, some reds and some greens and yellows and some blues. Basic colors that when mixed can make any others. Ide get three of every color mentioned a base a shade and a highlight reaper makes triads and GW makes these as well in the form of base colors, washes (for shading), and layers for highlights.

  20. #20

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    It depends on what is at your local store in terms of paints, but I would go for "proper" miniature paints.You can make your own wet palette (search youtube for ideas) which saves a ton of paint (because it doesn't dry out as quickly). I think I made one for approximately $1/2 (including replacement paper).

    Personally I like P3 paints, they seem to strike a balance between all things I want in paints, but all makes have their pro's/cons. The one thing I would say about GW is that you don't really need base, layers, dry etc paints. It's a bit of a marketing ploy really. I have a ton of GW paints I'll probably never use. The base paints I have to thin excessively for them to be useful- which makes them as "thin" as the layer paints, and so one. Also some of the colours are only subtley different - you probably only need one silver colour rather than the 3 or 4 GW make. At least for now.

    I guess what I'm getting to is that you probably need less paints than you think, so buy the least you can for whatever project you're working on. I swear I use the same 10 paints pretty much all the time and only rarely dipping into others. I've been painting 18 months and not had to buy any replacements yet. (Although my preferred "bone" colour is looking a bit empty...)

    For mini's, if you're starting out, the Reaper Bones minis are pretty cheap, but I'd say you couldn't get better value than some of the squads of GW mini's. The crypt ghouls and the cheapest box set of skeletons are really good sculpts for the money, and work out at about $2 per mini (at least here in the UK), which gives you a lot of practice for your bucks. There may be similar deals for Space Marines if that's your thing.

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