The mountain that rides: An Automatic include on almost any Lannister build?

[SunTzuArtOfWar]

I've got a half dozen games (I know not many) or so under my belt and I am really likeing The Mountain that rides unit. I really like playing the Lannisters and have played all of my games as them. I have also been playing around with multiple builds from the Kickstarter HOTK pledge and a few extra units I purchased such as the Lannister Knights and crossbowman. I have tried the mountain as an attachment in both the knights and with the Mountains men but I must say the stand alone mountain that ride unit seems to be the best way to use him. To me he is almost an auto include in any build. He hits hard and can cut through the most armored foes, has great armor and morale and only costs 4 points with the extra activation compared to using him as an attachment. Yes a flank or rear attack and a very lucky role from some stark outriders can take him out quick, but if used properly, he is pretty easy to keep alive. I want to use the mountain in other builds as infantry or as a cavalry attachment but it just doesn't seem as good. I want to be clear I don't think he is over powered and I'm sure there will be units that will come out that can counter him easily. I just think for the value, he is by far the best unit right now. My only complaint is he is not a commander as the mountain that rides, so you cannot use those tactic cards with him in this form. To me a Lannister build without him is an inefficient use of your points. Thoughts?

Also I would be interested in the ways you all have been able to utilize him or effective ways to play against him?

[hithero]

I love him, his small base means he can go anywhere,not an auto include though as I like to play with a different force every time.

[Psychopath]

The thing about the Mountain that Rides is that he is the Lannister equivalent of the Direwolfs. He is a cheap activation and the cheapest fast moving unit for the Lannisters. If you have to claim objectives you can chose the Mountain for 4pts or the Knights for 8pts. Due to its size the Mountain is even faster on an objective. In addition you get some combat power to kill other squishy units like direwolfs or lock fast moving enemies in combat. Again, the cheapest other unit that could acomplish that task would be the knights of casterly rock. but you don't use a 8pts unit to hunt a faster direwolf or lock them in combat against outriders for the rest of the game.

In my opinion the Mountain that rides seems so good for Lannisters because he fills a role that no other unit can fill. Maybe he will be seen less often if Lannisters get light and cheap cavalry scouts.

[Pommmovore]

Hi all,

I've played only a few games and always against Lannisters. My opponent used the Mountain that Rides each time and let me tell : it is painfull ! Only 4 points for a unit that is VERY hard to kill (you can easly heal him with an NCU) and that strikes very hard (3+ with no saves !). We wondered if this is not the most overpowered unit in the game after it successfully defended against and then kill Bolton Cavalry (10 pts !) then heavily damaged Stark's Bersekers. So, yes, if I was a Lannister player I'd make The mountain that rides an automatic include on any Lannister build. Stark player is forced to focus on it, so initiative goes to Lannister.

[Fronx]

I wouldn't consider Mountain that rides auto-include (like something else is), but right now, before the better armor ignoring counters appear, it is quite powerful. Maybe 90% include, while 10% of the times choosing the other versions of him (So the character is auto-include, but the mounted version of him only 90% of the time).

If one thinks Mountain is issue, then he must think that Flayed Men are bigger issue. It is easy to make 4 wounds (even in one go, so enemy doesn't get to heal), but it is a lot harder to make 4x3 = 12 wounds (plus negating the healing the enemy will be able to make, unless you use Varys) to an unit that hits a LOT harder.

Some math:
Mountain costs 4 pts, and has 4 wounds, so you get 1:1. Mountain doesn't actually hit that hard, it just cannot be saved against.
Flayed Men costs 10 pts, and has 12 wounds, so you get more hit points with cheaper price. Flayed men also hit hard.
So Flayed men are logically even more poverful than Mountain that rides.


I do want to remind, that Mountain that rides is not released yet, it was KS extra. There might be a reason they are not releasing it yet =)
If struggling with certain KS extra units, maybe consider ruling (that is used also in many --if not in all-- official tournaments), that only retail released content is allowed?

[Pommmovore]

I've made some maths :-) /to be precise : i've simulated 1,000,000 dice results per unit, python code may be provided if necessary/

Mountain that rides scores 3.33 wounds (not saved hits) average hits per attack no matter how armored the opponent is, no matter how many wounds he took
Flayed Men scores 1.11 average wounds (not saved hits) against Mountain that rides (2+ armor) only at full strength - it is not easy to make 4 wounds facing this armor since saves fail only on '1' result !

That means, face to face, Mountain and Flayed Men would take 4 round to kill each other (if hitting was simultaneous) and I even dont count the case when Flayed Men have only 1 rank (6 dices instead of 8). So they are equal face to face but Flayed Men costs 2,5 times more ;-)

You're right : we have to wait and see if the retail release will keep Mountain that rides stats.

[Fronx]

I've made some maths :-) /to be precise : i've simulated 1,000,000 dice results per unit, python code may be provided if necessary/

Mountain that rides scores 3.33 wounds (not saved hits) average hits per attack no matter how armored the opponent is, no matter how many wounds he took
Flayed Men scores 1.11 average wounds (not saved hits) against Mountain that rides (2+ armor) only at full strength - it is not easy to make 4 wounds facing this armor since saves fail only on '1' result !

That means, face to face, Mountain and Flayed Men would take 4 round to kill each other (if hitting was simultaneous) and I even dont count the case when Flayed Men have only 1 rank (6 dices instead of 8). So they are equal face to face but Flayed Men costs 2,5 times more ;-)

You're right : we have to wait and see if the retail release will keep Mountain that rides stats.

How they fare against each other doesn't really matter, that is beside the point, when discussing topic "The mountain that rides: An Automatic include on almost any Lannister build?". That topic title has implied implication, that the unit is good against anything and everything (=auto-include), not just against one unit. If Unit A beats Unit B, it does not mean Unit A will then beat every other imaginable Unit better than Unit B. It just tells how it goes in a vacuum where only Unit A and Unit B battle out.

Thus comparing how much damage Flayed men makes against 2+ armor is moot, in this topic.

Generally, against any other unit(s), Flayed men survives still a lot longer than Mountain that rides, and can make (a lot more) damage than Mountain does.
It is easier to get burst of 4 Wounds to an Unit in one go than 12, negating the power of heals. And Flayed Men roll more dice, even if enemies get saves, they usually have (a lot) less armor than Mountain.

[TheGrinningWolf]

I would say he is an auto include because he is badass, scary, a great looking model and fun fun FUN!!


T W

[Elkerlyc]

Given the current options; he sure is as close to auto-include as it gets.

Fantastic model, cheap activation and effective (ignore armour/ fast)

[Utilitycookie]

Given the current options; he sure is as close to auto-include as it gets.

Fantastic model, cheap activation and effective (ignore armour/ fast)

Yeah he is pretty solid. I would always include him to be honest.
Just keep him away from ghost or somethng like pyromancers, berserkers are not ideal either.

[baltogu]

Old thread, but I use the mountain as an attachement to the knights of Casterly rock to great effect. D3 additional wounds (not hits) to the nine dice of the charging knights, plus critical blow that deals 2 wounds for each 6, sundering for the defender, in most cases you won't even need the panic test (the mountain gets the defender to panic too) to finish off an entire unit in one go. if that's not enough you get an order form the moutain to carry on a second charge to slaughter a nearby unit, and with Tyrion as a commander you can reactivate the unit for more in the same round. To me that's the auto include costly yes, that will leave you with mostly lannister guards to sit on objectives if you want 2 NCU, but still...spectacular and very efficient!