Align Moves and Issues with it - Page 2
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Thread: Align Moves and Issues with it

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedGod View Post
    maybe clarification be put into page 7 , Common Terms: "engaged"

    Currently : "A unit is engaged when it is in contact with one ormore enemy units."

    Maybe change to : "A unit becomes engaged when it either successfully charges it's target, or is the target of a successful charge"
    That would still leave interpretation, where multiple units can become engaged in "one engagement".

    I would still add words like "engaging only it" to the 1st sentence before comma, to emphasize, that only attacker and defender must become engaged, no other units allowed to become engaged that might be next to the defender.




    This by the way makes defending Units easier. With my wrong rules interpretation, it was easier to charge units as you could become connected with multiple units. With correct rules, it makes defending ranged units and other weaker units easier, making ranged units stronger than they were earlier for me, subjectively, due to having (subjectively) rules wrong =)

  2. #22

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    4) you cannot declare a charge against multiple enemies. consequently you cannot engage more than one enemy at once.
    Also, all trays must be aligned 50% or 100% so both of the large red trays in question are properly aligned.[/QUOTE]

    Just to confirm you meant to say
    So both of the large red trays in question are NOT properly aligned.

  3. #23

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    Thank you for that! That is what I meant to say. I just miss-typed.

    I have edited it.

  4. #24

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    Thanks, now one last question. In point 4
    Let's say that the three units are stacked and the attacker decided to charge the middle tray.
    Would they be able to charge the middle tray?
    Say that in the rare event that all three are perfectly aligned and he managed to to charge perfectly and touching all three units at the same time
    It's extremely far fetched . But would it be considered a failed charge?

    Also say he managed to come at the middle tray at an angle and touched the middle tray with its corner.
    Would they be able to align?

  5. #25

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    this tread is a bit messy, so I don't recommend reading it for rule clarifications. Especially as the rules / interpretations have changed a bit as we are now in rule book version 1.2.

    However, final situation, myself answering my old questions:

    1) Align move might cause opponent to be removed from the Objective Token or other Enemy Unit
    => Legal move to remove enemy unit from objective by crafty use of align move. Previous engagements between enemy units cannot be broken, but nothing preventing moving unit off the (static) obejctive token (source: various discussions here and in other sources, also CMON answer in this thread)

    2) Small/Single Unit Aligning with Large Tray is not described well in Rule book
    => Single Tray align is actually clear if you read the rule book cautiously engouh: the 50% align is checked from the enemy tray, as mentioned in the rule book. (source: rule book)

    3) You cannot rotate facing if more than one enemy connected, even if they are on same facing
    => Rules say so, so this indeed is so. (source: rule book)

    4) Charge can engage three or more
    => Rule book has actually always been clear on this. It says only 2 on a side, or only one if it is center-to-center (even if more would fit, not allowed!). Note that this thread has now partly incorrect official CMON answer, rule book v1.2 changed this! (It is OK to engage multiple enemies in one charge, but I assume the ohter rules (about center-to-center and 2 max in side) are still valid also). (source: rule book)

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    4) Charge can engage three or more
    => Rule book has actually always been clear on this. It says only 2 on a side, or only one if it is center-to-center (even if more would fit, not allowed!). Note that this thread has now partly incorrect official CMON answer, rule book v1.2 changed this! (It is OK to engage multiple enemies in one charge, but I assume the ohter rules (about center-to-center and 2 max in side) are still valid also). (source: rule book)
    So how does the scenario for this one play out? You can still charge the small unit and engage all 3? But that violates 2 per side.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by wesg92 View Post
    So how does the scenario for this one play out? You can still charge the small unit and engage all 3? But that violates 2 per side.
    My understanding is, that the new clarification does not trump other existing rules, and the part about 2 per tray side was not removed / modified.

    Thus you can engage multiple Units in one charge (new clarification). Just you must not end up with more than 2 per tray side* (old, but still existing rule).

    They do not really conflict with each other.


    *) Note that you can engage in rare case thus even 4, if it is 2 on front and 2 e.g. on left. Or in extremely strange case, even more (would get weird though).


    EDIT: On this latter part, I have not seen official clarification though, so some of this could be wrong. But the 1st part should be quite clear, as both rules exist in the rule book.
    Last edited by Fronx; 02-22-2019 at 03:23 AM.

  8. #28

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    Hi all, sorry to be a pain but it says here that you can legally charge 2 or more units. Could you please reference that rule and link it to an official statement? Hasn't that just been clarified above that you an only charge 1?
    ASOIAF TMG

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Pathfinder View Post
    Hi all, sorry to be a pain but it says here that you can legally charge 2 or more units. Could you please reference that rule and link it to an official statement? Hasn't that just been clarified above that you an only charge 1?

    FAQ v1.2:

    Q: Can I end a Charge action engaged with multiple enemies? If so, what happens?
    A:
    Yes. Although rare, after all alignment is completed from a successful Charge, the attacker may find its tray touching additional enemies. In such an event, the units are engaged. The attacker can still only resolve its attack against the original target, and the additional contacted enemies are not forcibly moved in any way as a result of that Charge move.

    https://asoiaf.cmon.com/docs/

  10. #30

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    Ok, cool, so if 3 giants are holding hands and the middle is charged by a unit of infantry... What happens?
    ASOIAF TMG

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Pathfinder View Post
    Ok, cool, so if 3 giants are holding hands and the middle is charged by a unit of infantry... What happens?
    To me, it sounds like one of these options, depending on situation and spacing:

    - Illegal charge, if attacker cannot end the Charge being aligned only two on same side of tray.
    - Attacker aligns so, that attacker ends up aligning only with two (So e.g. no center-to-center aligning with the middle-giant, only 50% to either side so that attacker connects only with two of the giants).

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Pathfinder View Post
    Ok, cool, so if 3 giants are holding hands and the middle is charged by a unit of infantry... What happens?
    You charge just two of them.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Pathfinder View Post
    Ok, cool, so if 3 giants are holding hands and the middle is charged by a unit of infantry... What happens?

    Attacker would hit the center one, align 100% or 50% and if it ended up engaged with one or more of the others then they are engaged, per the FAQ ruling above.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alliser Thorne View Post
    Attacker would hit the center one, align 100% or 50% and if it ended up engaged with one or more of the others then they are engaged, per the FAQ ruling above.
    100% align with middle one in given example would go against written rule from rule book (any version, including latest v1.2), as there 3 units would be engaged on the attacking Units same [tray] side.

    Quote from page 18, rule book v1.2:

    The LoS Arc of the target unit must have space for the attacker’s tray to fit (see Determine Line of Sight Arc, below). Meaning that if there is another unit engaged center-to-center in the same LoS Arc, it is preventing the charge (see Align with Enemy, below). Note that his also means that a unit can never have more than 2 enemy units engaging it from the same side (Front/Flank/Rear)- both units engaged to 50% on the same side.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    100% align with middle one in given example would go against written rule from rule book (any version, including latest v1.2), as there 3 units would be engaged on the attacking Units same [tray] side.

    Quote from page 18, rule book v1.2:

    The LoS Arc of the target unit must have space for the attacker’s tray to fit (see Determine Line of Sight Arc, below). Meaning that if there is another unit engaged center-to-center in the same LoS Arc, it is preventing the charge (see Align with Enemy, below). Note that his also means that a unit can never have more than 2 enemy units engaging it from the same side (Front/Flank/Rear)- both units engaged to 50% on the same side.

    This sentence specifically references the target of the charge ("The LoS Arc of the target"), which in this example has no one engaged and absolutely has space for the attacker's tray. There is no mention at all of anything that would prevent the attacker from becoming engaged with multiple units- in fact the FAQ answer directly supports that this can happen.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alliser Thorne View Post
    This sentence specifically references the target of the charge ("The LoS Arc of the target"), which in this example has no one engaged and absolutely has space for the attacker's tray. There is no mention at all of anything that would prevent the attacker from becoming engaged with multiple units- in fact the FAQ answer directly supports that this can happen.
    Yes. FAQ states that multiple units can be engaged. The quoted rule part though states that only 2 per side, with quite definite word "never". They do not contradict each other, two on multiple sides of tray (tray has 4 sides) allowed by rule book and the FAQ entry can lead into multitude of engagements in multiple sides of tray.

    On multiple flanks, I could imagine situation where a charge through friendly unit could engage 5 to 6 enemies, on 3 different sides of tray, but max 2 on each side as per rule book. If there would be flying/teleporting/charging-through-enemy unit, on extremely rare case it could then lead to 4 (sides) x 2 (max per side) = 8 engagements, still holding true on the "only 2 on side" rule, and keeping FAQ entry relevant (on multiple allowed -entry).


    FAQ entries do not remove existing rules, errata does.

    If there is meant to be 3 or more in one flank, the word "never" at least should be removed, or the whole sentence stating so.

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