Greatjon Umber Tactics Cards: questions
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Thread: Greatjon Umber Tactics Cards: questions

  1. #1

    Default Greatjon Umber Tactics Cards: questions

    Greatjon Umber Tactics Cards questions.

    LASH OUT:
    - Does this card have effect, if the attacked unit was destroyed?
    Reason: is there anymore "this unit" to to count how many ranks are destroyed?

    LAST STAND:
    - Are Attachment(s) Abilities counted for this Attack?
    Reason: Is the Attachment dead, as to destroy Unit all models must be removed?

  2. #2

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    1. Lash Out. Two ways for me to read this, and both result in the card not being able to be played and/or having no effect:
    a. The unit was destroyed, so you no longer have a target for the card at all. Akin to trying to force a Panic Test on a unit that's already been wiped out by the physical portion of the attack.
    b. The effect of Lash Out says "if the unit has 1 destroyed rank, do X, if it has 2 destroyed ranks, do Y" - it has neither of these, if you want to get strictly literal, it has 3 destroyed ranks.

    Either way, going off of wording of the card, it seems to assume the unit has survived. I would also note that, otherwise, this opens up a big can of worms as to what you can play in these situations.

    2. We had this discussion on the Discord, and if you're going by literal wording, no, you couldn't. Reason being the FAQ says when an Attachment is destroyed the unit loses its Abilities, and at the time you'd play Last Stand, that Attachment is in fact destroyed. Worth noting this feels "wrong" to me, but just going off of wording and rulings, that's how it works.

  3. #3

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    Lash out can only be played after the attack is resolved. Destroyed unit cannot be targeted.

    Last Stand is a little bit interesting. It all comes down to the wording. Last stand says "when a unit is destroyed". So when is a unit destroyed? the rule book says "when the last model is removed, the unit is destroyed and removed from the battlefield".
    So it looks like you can only play this card after the attachment is removed. This seems to be valid.
    However, an interesting issue is that the card also says "if this unit contains Greatjon". If the former rule is valid, this condition can never be met because a destroyed unit cannot possibly contain any attachment. This seems to be an unreasonable penalty to the use of this card.
    Thematically I certainly think that you should be able to use your attachment, otherwise it is not a last stand. If the card says "before the last model being removed from the unit", things would be much clearer.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingyuan View Post
    Lash out can only be played after the attack is resolved. Destroyed unit cannot be targeted.

    Last Stand is a little bit interesting. It all comes down to the wording. Last stand says "when a unit is destroyed". So when is a unit destroyed? the rule book says "when the last model is removed, the unit is destroyed and removed from the battlefield".
    So it looks like you can only play this card after the attachment is removed. This seems to be valid.
    However, an interesting issue is that the card also says "if this unit contains Greatjon". If the former rule is valid, this condition can never be met because a destroyed unit cannot possibly contain any attachment. This seems to be an unreasonable penalty to the use of this card.
    Thematically I certainly think that you should be able to use your attachment, otherwise it is not a last stand. If the card says "before the last model being removed from the unit", things would be much clearer.
    The card says "If targeting a House Umber unit", not one containing Greatjon. If you see that version, you're looking at an old one.

    This was discussed on the discord though. The FAQ says a unit loses the Abilities of an Attachment as soon as they are removed. Last Stand triggers when the unit would be destroyed, meaning the Attachment has been killed.

    Following this, by RAW, Last Stand can't benefit from Attachment Abilities, but I will say this doesn't "feel" correct, but is how it would currently play out, again, based on FAQ rulings.

    This one could use a more official answer, however.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    Greatjon Umber Tactics Cards questions.

    LASH OUT:
    - Does this card have effect, if the attacked unit was destroyed?
    Reason: is there anymore "this unit" to to count how many ranks are destroyed?

    LAST STAND:
    - Are Attachment(s) Abilities counted for this Attack?
    Reason: Is the Attachment dead, as to destroy Unit all models must be removed?

    Lash Out: Unit must survive for this card to be used. Eg, if there is no unit left, there is nothing for this card to target.

    Last Stand: This one actually does have an unintentional interaction with the FAQ. As mentioned, by strictest wording, the Attachment i destroyed at this point and thus doesn't contribute. This interaction is not intentional, however, and will be addressed in future FAQ, as to keep the Attachment Abilities active for the duration/timing of Last Stand.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by CMON Michael Shinall View Post
    Last Stand: This one actually does have an unintentional interaction with the FAQ. As mentioned, by strictest wording, the Attachment i destroyed at this point and thus doesn't contribute. This interaction is not intentional, however, and will be addressed in future FAQ, as to keep the Attachment Abilities active for the duration/timing of Last Stand.
    I think this was not included in the FAQ update of v1.2.
    https://asoiaf.cmon.com/docs

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    I think this was not included in the FAQ update of v1.2.
    https://asoiaf.cmon.com/docs
    It was neither included in the followed FAQs.

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