"A unit may never declare a charge action it cannot complete"
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: "A unit may never declare a charge action it cannot complete"

  1. #1

    Default "A unit may never declare a charge action it cannot complete"

    Does the rule "A unit may never declare a Charge action it cannot complete" on page of 18 of the rule book apply to the entirety of the charge sequence or only when determining if there is a valid target for the charge?

    Example: A unit of Mountain Men with with Gregor Clegane non-commander attachment has Greywind in is Line of Sight, with no intervening terrain or units, just over 10 inches away (within the 5 movement plus 1d6 die roll). Gregor's ability requires a mandatory charge in that situation, but can Gregor's unit declare Greywind as a valid target, keep Greywind in Line of Sight, and Pivot Attacker (per the bullet on Page 18) to intentionally miss Greywind, effectively eating a panic test from the charge's failure to gain better positioning.

    Is this permitted? There is nothing in the "Pivot Attacker" bullet that provides the player must still be able to hit the valid target after the pivot, only that the valid target must remain in LOS. The phrase "A unit may never declare a Charge action it cannot complete" is located in the section of the rules that determines a valid target, so may or may not apply following the charge pivot.

    In simple terms, do you need to charge at the valid target or do you just need a valid target as a precondition to be able to charge any direction within LOS. I'm interested in thoughts.

    (Note that the question, while phrased as a question about Gregor's compulsory charge, also has general applicability, particularly on the new Dance with Dragon's scenario.)

  2. #2

    Default

    You are declaring a charge against an enemy, ergo you charge it, not to try and get an advantageous move.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hithero View Post
    You are declaring a charge against an enemy, ergo you charge it, not to try and get an advantageous move.
    As we are in rule question area, please quote the relevant part that says so. I cannot find that directly said in the rule book.

  4. #4

    Default

    Name:  Screenshot_20190111-131955.jpg
Views: 236
Size:  12.6 KB

    Under DETERMINE LINE OF SIGHT ARC, the rule says that if the charge is successful, you will come into contact with the enemy tray. Therefore, you must be heading in a direct line to contact the enemy tray. You select a target of the charge and, if successful (distance wise) you will contact that chosen enemy tray. Therefore, you cannot target an enemy and move in a direction that will make you miss them.

    Actually, as I type this am changing my mind. The rules here do NOT say that "the attacker must move in a straight line directly toward it's chosen target". That specific line is missing. I personally think that the missing line is intended to be understood however, I can understand the confusion. I will house rule that you must move directly toward the target until further clarification from CMON.

    (Not sure why my screen shot is so tiny. Lol)

  5. #5

    Default

    Strictly "as written" it seems to be allowed but its definitely not intended. If this was their intention they wouldnt have forced Gregor to charge in the first place.
    And thematically its just...nope.

  6. #6

    Default

    By pivoting so that your charge action will not be able to contact the enemy you are charging you are then effectively declaring a charge action that you cannot complete. So this would be an illegal move.

    Picture the captain saying to his men, "you see that unit in front of us, I want you all to get ready to charge but we are going to angle so that we can miss contacting it, now let's charge that open field over there".

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul67 View Post
    By pivoting so that your charge action will not be able to contact the enemy you are charging you are then effectively declaring a charge action that you cannot complete. So this would be an illegal move.

    Picture the captain saying to his men, "you see that unit in front of us, I want you all to get ready to charge but we are going to angle so that we can miss contacting it, now let's charge that open field over there".
    Your still declaring a charge that you CAN complete and when you are allowed to pivot/move the charge has already been declared and theres nothing saying you must pivot in such a way the charge can be completed.

    Strictly RAW this is allowed but of course its not intended.

  8. #8

    Default

    And at the start of the section for "Charge" it states "The charge action allows a unit to rapidly advance forward into an enemy,.." by doing the above you are not meeting this.

    I hope never to play against someone so blatantly trying to play the game system and avoid all logic.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul67 View Post
    And at the start of the section for "Charge" it states "The charge action allows a unit to rapidly advance forward into an enemy,.." by doing the above you are not meeting this.

    I hope never to play against someone so blatantly trying to play the game system and avoid all logic.
    Me too as I hate when people try to rulesmonger their way into advantage. Thats why I never play competitively because RAW takes precedence over RAI in competition.
    Just trying to answer a question here...

  10. #10

    Default

    This has now been changed in v1.2:

    Before, it was allowed (pre-v1.2 rules). Now it is different, errataed so that above is not anymore possible:

    Pivot Attacker:
    The attacker may then pivot, so long as the
    targeted enemy remains in its Line of Sight and it would
    potentially contact the target during its move.

  11. #11

    Default

    Also,

    "The attacker is then moved directly forward itstotal charge distance, stopping only if it would contact anotherunit it cannot cross or a Terrain piece it cannot cross"

    The tray has to move directly forward. This is extremely important when you are using units to block for your squishy units. Do not hesitate to remind your opponent about this rule.

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    This has now been changed in v1.2:

    Before, it was allowed (pre-v1.2 rules). Now it is different, errataed so that above is not anymore possible:

    Pivot Attacker:
    The attacker may then pivot, so long as the
    targeted enemy remains in its Line of Sight and it would
    potentially contact the target during its move.
    Yup. I agree that this resolves the issue. The clear intention of the design team is that CHARGE is to be used as an attempt to move directly toward the enemy target unit.

    Another tricky usage here could be something like a player choosing to stop his charge short of contacting an enemy for the purpose of ending in an advantageous position, for example, on top of an objective that would have been otherwise unreachable with a move or March order. Clearly, this isn't the intended use of a CHARGE. The intent is ONLY to rush into combat with an enemy (or fall short trying to do so).

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zzzman74 View Post
    Yup. I agree that this resolves the issue. The clear intention of the design team is that CHARGE is to be used as an attempt to move directly toward the enemy target unit.

    Another tricky usage here could be something like a player choosing to stop his charge short of contacting an enemy for the purpose of ending in an advantageous position, for example, on top of an objective that would have been otherwise unreachable with a move or March order. Clearly, this isn't the intended use of a CHARGE. The intent is ONLY to rush into combat with an enemy (or fall short trying to do so).

    You don't get an option on how far you move with a charge. It is not up to the distance rolled, you move the total distance.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Privacy Policy  |   Terms and Conditions  |   Contact Us  |   The Legion


Copyright © 2001-2018 CMON Inc.

-->