Ride-By-Attack
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Ride-By-Attack

  1. #1

    Default Ride-By-Attack

    You play this card when you activate a friendly cavalry.

    In my mind, you immediately do what the card says. As in, all of it. My reasoning is simple, do what the card says when you play it. All of it.

    Some think, or maybe most and I'm crazy, that the card is actually giving you another option for WHEN it's time to take an action. So you would play the card, then the effect would not take place until it is time to declare an action.

    How do you read it?


  2. #2

    Default

    I read it the 2nd way you listed.

    You play the card when the unit activates, but the card says what the unit can do as its action. The main question is do they still get their free maneuver, and I think yes because the maneuver is free and occurs before their action.

  3. #3

    Default

    I agree with wesg92. The phase “As its action..”, to me, says that it is adding this to the action options available for the unit to choose from. I also agree that the unit would still get the free Maneuver action prior to doing this.

    The other bit that adds to my interpretation is that it says “may”. If you did not get the free Maneuver prior, you would know before playing the card whether or not the action on the card would be doable. Therefore there would be no reason to play it without already knowing if it was a viable option. The free Maneuver adds the poosibility that you might not be able to get into position to take advantage of the new action option.
    House - Ravenhurst
    Sigil - Black raven on a copper field, clutching paintbrushes
    Words - “We do not Highlight”

  4. #4

    Default

    My answer is yes, you could change your mind and not do that effect even after you played this card, and can choose other actions instead, and you could do other things also (whatever you can do during a turn).

    But, there is more to this. I'll take a leap of faith, and assume this is subtly asking about Free Maneuver: I though the answer would be clear "yes you get Free Maneuver when you play this card", but then I read both again, and clear RAW is you cannot Free Maneuver if you play this card, due to both being voluntary actions on same trigger!


    Ride-by Attack has trigger "When a friendly cavalry Unit activates". Tactics Cards played from hand are by default voluntary effects.
    Cavalry Free Maneuver innate ability trigger is "At the start of this unit's activation, it may..." Making it voluntary action.
    (There is no FAQ or errata stating, that innate abilities are mandatory, only that they cannot be removed).

    => They share same trigger, and are both voluntary. As per rules, you can only play one, not both.
    You cannot Free Maneuver, if you chose to play Ride-by Attack Tactics Card instead on that trigger.
    Personally, I start to feel that Brynden Tully - Outrider Commander has quite weak Tactics Cards (even when I assumed earlier that you could Free Maneuver before Ride-by Attack). Ride-by Attack will be quite impossible to setup without the Free Maneuver, extremely rare to setup for play (especially as enemy can be aware that two such cards exist in your deck).

    I do hope I'm wrong on some account?

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    Cavalry Free Maneuver innate ability trigger is "At the start of this unit's activation, it may..." Making it voluntary action.
    (There is no FAQ or errata stating, that innate abilities are mandatory, only that they cannot be removed).
    This is the same as Stark/Hound's Fury; they're innate Abilities and as such can be used with other effects/Abilities that trigger at the same time because they're always active and cannot be cancelled.

    Name:  Innate Abilities.jpg
Views: 63
Size:  64.3 KB

    [Edit] OK ignore this as I've used the incorrect language.
    Last edited by Dean Rothwell; 03-13-2019 at 08:39 AM.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Rothwell View Post
    This is the same as Stark/Hound's Fury; they're innate Abilities and as such can be used with other effects/Abilities that trigger at the same time because they're always active and cannot be cancelled.

    Name:  Innate Abilities.jpg
Views: 63
Size:  64.3 KB
    OK, not to sound disrespectful here but there is A LOT wrong with your post.

    1. Stark Fury/Hounds Fury are NOT innate abilities. They do not have the Innate Ability Icon. They are Weapon Abilities, and absolutely 100% can be cancelled.

    2. An Innate Ability not being able to be cancelled has no bearing at all on activating multiple Voluntary Triggers at the same time. Those rules in-no-way interact.

    3. Cavalry is an Innate Ability, as marked by the Innate Ability Icon, but again, this has no bearing on the actual question being asked.

    OK, onto the actual question....

    The Cavalry move triggers at the Start of the Unit's Activation, Ride-By is "When a Cavalry unit activates". The question here is: is this the same trigger?

    Unfortunately, I can see it being either way. This is not the same as two effects triggering at the Start of a Unit's Activstion, as one is stating "when", usually placing it before, and the other is after/during their actual activation.

    Given that though, I would be led to believe you can play both of these, for the reason I stated above. Unfortunately this would come down to your own view of if activating and "start of activation" are different points in the process (which to me they are, as you have different effects that trigger on each).

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alliser Thorne View Post
    The question here is: is this the same trigger?
    This is definitely the question where it boils down to.
    (Unless there is second option, where rules need to be clarified on Cavalry Free Maneuver being actually mandatory, but no use to speculate on such, as we do not have such info, and with that logic all rules can be questioned).

    By RAW, we are only left with that question. Are the triggers same or not.

  8. #8

    Default

    The card says "As its action, this unit may..."

    The "Free Manuever" is not the cavalry action, it is a free manuever before its action at the start of its turn. Then you perform its action "As its action the unit may"

  9. #9

    Default

    Even if the triggers are different, my original post remains. In my view, the entirety of the card is resolved as the units action, it is not giving another option for the action step later. Hence the need for this post, and not a repeat of another thread. Cheers.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedGod View Post
    Even if the triggers are different, my original post remains. In my view, the entirety of the card is resolved as the units action, it is not giving another option for the action step later. Hence the need for this post, and not a repeat of another thread. Cheers.
    Thats not what the card says.


    "As the units action"
    The free manuever is before that. Then it makes its action and resolves the card

  11. #11

    Default

    Main question was:
    How does Ride-by Attack work?

    Boils down to two (sub-)questions:

    A) Is the trigger for Cavalry's Innate Ability's Free Maneuver and Ride-by Attack same or different?
    Can you activate both effects (Ride-by Attack and Free Maneuver), or only one?

    B) Is the Cavalry's Innate Ability's Free Maneuver mandatory or voluntary?
    Can you activate both effects (Ride-by Attack and Free Maneuver), or only one?

    (And now TheRedGod adds one more to the mix. That is not how the card reads, but listing it here as it has been stated above as interpretation):
    C) Does playing Ride-by Attack, remove Free Maneuver and option to choose any other action for the Unit?
    Are you committed to doing only what the card says immediately after you played it and nothing else?




    Quote Originally Posted by Daboarder View Post
    The card says "As its action, this unit may..."

    The "Free Manuever" is not the cavalry action, it is a free manuever before its action at the start of its turn. Then you perform its action "As its action the unit may"
    Incorrect partly. Correct that Free Maneuver is not Action. That is why I agree that The RedGod's interpretation is clearly incorrect, as the card says "As it's action" (thus the card only replaces or gives another option to use as the Unit's Action, nothing else).

    But, words matter: Free Maneuver very clearly has a trigger "at the start of the Unit's activation", not "at the start of turn" as you claim above. Trigger "at the start of turn" is past when activation has been declared, any "at the start of turn" effects should have been be played before activation was declared (in friendly games, this can be easily omitted, but this is rules discussion, so important to pay attention to details).

    Free Maneuver does not start at the start of the turn. It happens at the start of the units activation. Clear difference.

  12. #12

    Default

    If the cavalry innate ability is a different trigger, and you do the card immediately, you would actually get to maneuver afterwards. So theres that. Lol

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedGod View Post
    If the cavalry innate ability is a different trigger, and you do the card immediately, you would actually get to maneuver afterwards. So theres that. Lol
    You resolve it exactly as it tells you too.

    in this case, when the model makes its action, with no mention of it being able to do or not do anything else in the turn.

    Just like cards or rules that happen after a card arent cancelled by playing a tactics card, nothing in the rules says this would be either

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Privacy Policy  |   Terms and Conditions  |   Contact Us  |   The Legion


Copyright © 2001-2018 CMON Inc.

-->