Bolton Blackguards - are they worth 6pts for pure neutral armies?

[Mutter]

I think the "cut them down" ability has to cost 2pts (The Hound). Ramsay has it as well (plus theon) for 3pts. That said, Prey on Fear would definitely be something new.

Not sure about 'Cut them down', since the Hound also makes the unit a Clegane unit, which is quite important (and powerful) with Gregor as C. And I think Theon could well be worth 2 points, too.

[Oakwolf]

You might be right, in fact let's hope so, because the Black Guards definitely need an extra "omph" to help with the killing.

[Mutter]

..., because the Black Guards definitely need an extra "omph" to help with the killing.

Although with the attachment being neutral, it also means everybody else gets that extra oomph.
Not easy to balance, I think.

[Oakwolf]

Although with the attachment being neutral, it also means everybody else gets that extra oomph.
Not easy to balance, I think.

That's what i am afraid of with neutrals as more factions are released. Each unit or attachment must be balanced with every other unit or attachment in the game...even tactic decks combos. I know they are good at what they do, but it's quite an ordeal. I do wonder if, at one point, they ought to release a "neutral faction" starter set which would include variation stats/rules for when playing solely as a neutral player, like when playing "House Bolton".

[Tony4095]

I really hope these guys are finally available to buy at GenCon. Worth 6 pts or not, I'll be buying a unit as soon as I cam find one for sale. Awesome looking minis.

[Warlax]

I've used them w/ proxies my last 6 games and found them pretty underwhelming. It's a shame their abilities were changed. Their current ability almost never applies, and doesn't do much even when it does proc. Their base stats are barely worth 5 points, and the ability isn't worth 1. Sure, it has a chance to screw an attacker over completely (if your opponent is a dolt or unlucky) but most of the time it doesn't apply. It's a reactive ability on a 4 movement unit, which means the opponent will almost always get to chose the conditions under which he will have to take the panic test. He'll charge something into them that has good morale, or avoid them and their 4 movement entirely. Their attacking ability is on par with that of ranged units. Adding an attachment to them seems even worse - 9 points for them w/ ramsey. Probably the least cost-effective combination of unit/attachment in the game, honestly. Roose w/ them is just about as bad. You're WAY over-paying for a unit with mediocre stats, and abilities that rarely apply, and do pretty little when they do. Maybe other neutral attachments to come will make them better, but I doubt it.
Bolton armies need to be fast and hit hard IMO. This unit just doesn't sync up well with them. They don't even seem good as a neutral unit in another army - Starks have Tully Sworn Shields, and Lannisters have gaurdsmen / captain, both of which are better for holding objectives.
Will continue to test them, however my expectations for them are low. It seems like they don't even hold objectives well.

[Tony4095]

If true, it's a real shame as the minis look great. I did like their spiked armor ability better than the current panic mechanic ability.

[Oakwolf]

I come to the same conclusions as Warlax above: The ability is too easy to control by the opponent.

Plus the coming factions will have great morale: Dothraki have like 5+ across the board, and well...Baratheons should be as hardy as Starks.

With a 3pts attachment, the unit becomes a puffer fish: it does not fight like a 9pts unit.

Right now they have what seems to be the exact same stats as Baratheon Wardens, a 5pt unit, but trading "Warhammer" with "Horrific Visage". Horrific visage does not seem to be much better, unless you play with Lannisters.

[Oakwolf]

It seems that CMON sometimes partially previews cards, like what just occured with the Baratheon Wardens. The first time we saw their card, they didn't have their second ability "target opening". I am thinking that there's still hope for "vicious" to be in there for the black guards. If that's the case, then they'll be great.

[Tony4095]

I really hope that we havent seen the unit yet because even more changes/additions were made from the latest card we've seen.

[Tony4095]

So Blackguards are officially in War Council app. Come w 1 pt unit attachment Bolton Flayer who has Prey on Fear (enemy unit he is engaged w fails panic test & flayer's unit restores 2 wounds). I think it's good on Blackguards since they already force extra panic tests, but still think thus unit is a base 5 unit, and not 6 (7 with Bolton Flayer).

[Oakwolf]

Yeah, i honestly think it's Cercei's and "Hear me Roar!" tax for that unit. We both agree on its value, this unit is a 5 pointer if you take the Neutral faction alone.