Question about charge
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  1. #1

    Default Question about charge

    Is such situation possible?

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    Lannisters attack stark and intentianally touch other stark unit to engage it.

    Can small Stark unit use attack after first die and not choose to align

  2. #2

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    I'd rule this an illegal charge as you've shown here.

    First, charging in a straight line is going to put them in contact with the small Stark unit first. Assuming that they'd declared the large Stark unit the target of the charge, that would make the charge illegal.

    Since the rules state that you must declare a target (singular) of your charge, the Lannisters would have to pivot in order to hit the large Stark without hitting the small one, and then align at 50%. Otherwise, they'd be engaged with two targets, which I believe is also not permitted.
    "Distrusting me was the wisest thing you've done since you climbed down off your horse." -Littlefinger

  3. #3

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    Actually, the FAQ contradicts some of what I just wrote. You *can* be touching multiple units as a result of a charge, in which case the small Stark unit would not be forced to align, but is still considered engaged.

    The rules are still not specific on whether or not you can finish your alignment touching two units if it can be avoided by aligning at 50%, as in your example. The Starks will have an advantage if the Lannisters must align at 50%, since they'll be able to charge into the flank. But the Lannisters will have an advantage if they align at 100%, since they'd be denying that charge.

    What I noted about charging straight in would still apply. The Lannisters should pivot to avoid contacting the small Stark unit before they come in contact with the larger one.
    Last edited by serbaelish; 06-12-2019 at 12:01 AM.
    "Distrusting me was the wisest thing you've done since you climbed down off your horse." -Littlefinger

  4. #4

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    Thank you.

    Rules certainly need more clarification about such situations when engaged units cannot stay face to face

  5. #5

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    What you think about intentially engaging second unit?

    After charge (via pivoting as you say) can Lannisters align to engage second unit?

  6. #6

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    This should be now clear with the FAQ/Errata/Rule book v1.3 and v1.4, these exact items were clarified in these:
    Legal charge and end point, that is how it would go.

    However, it is not clarified if the corner to tray connection counts as engagement or not.

    Though, very clear RAW interpretation is that it is an engagement: See page 7 of rule book, where term "Engagement" is defined: if there is "contact", it is engagement. And English word "contact" should be quite clear, even corner touch is a touch, or in other word, a "contact").
    Ugly, but must read rules as they are written.


    Thus, RAW is for all intents and purposes, that the small unit and large unit are now engaged, and they can do all the things that engaged units can do (and cannot do things that only unengaged units can do).
    In example,they could hit each other via that corner touch, wihtout re-align (as re-aling is optional part of attack). If either Unit would choose to re-align as part of their melee attack, then they would have to obey the rules about 50% or center-to-center contact align. But as long as neither does it, they are engaged like that, hitting each other with no problems.
    Last edited by Fronx; 06-12-2019 at 04:20 AM.

  7. #7

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    Funny note by the way, if the small tray would attack the large tray, it would be clearly in the flank of the large tray. But is large tray in flank or in front of the small tray? Rule book doesn't really tell us how to determine which flank the unit is in with such strrange corner engagements, when resolving melee attacks (Melee Attack is not Charge!).

    I would use the same mechanic as in Charge / Ranged Attack, but that is not said so in the rule book. With that, it would seem that both are in each others flanks (majority of the large tray is in the flank of the small tray).

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    Funny note by the way, if the small tray would attack the large tray, it would be clearly in the flank of the large tray. But is large tray in flank or in front of the small tray? Rule book doesn't really tell us how to determine which flank the unit is in with such strrange corner engagements, when resolving melee attacks (Melee Attack is not Charge!).

    I would use the same mechanic as in Charge / Ranged Attack, but that is not said so in the rule book. With that, it would seem that both are in each others flanks (majority of the large tray is in the flank of the small tray).
    You use the same rules for line of sight/arcs for everything, It even says on page 14 that is it used for other things.

    "A unit’s Line of Sight (LoS) determines what it can and cannot see. This is important for a number of reasons, but it is mostly used to determine what it can target when making attacks, as well as where it will contact an enemy when Charging."

  9. #9

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    Actually, in the above example the Charge would result in a failed charge. For a charge to be successful the unit has to come into contact with their target before any other enemy, and by the picture, by moving directly forward, the unit will contact the small base first.

    Of course, that can be easily avoided by a minor pivot beforehand, but it's worth noting that.

    So assuming they pivoted first to avoid, then, after the charge, aligned 100%, which would then put them in contact with the small tray, they would then be engaged.

    This is also almost a mathematical impossibility to happen without being intentionally set up, however. If the small tray is even 1mm to the right, the charger couldn't align 100% and thus would have to align 50%, and if it's 1mm to the left then it won't be engaged.

  10. #10

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    Alliser's answer is the most comprehensive and correct here, including the likelihood of this scenario actually existing

    But in the case of some weird "corner-connect" engagement (which, again, as Alliser stated, would be a near "mathematical impossibility" to happen with regularity) the unit would be engaged, per rulebook definition. When it activates it could choose to align 50/100, per the rules, or stay in its position.
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