Need Veteran Stark Help - 1st Stark List featuring Stalwart Tully
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Thread: Need Veteran Stark Help - 1st Stark List featuring Stalwart Tully

  1. #1

    Default Need Veteran Stark Help - 1st Stark List featuring Stalwart Tully

    So, I'm fairly new to ASOIAF and have only played a few games with Nights Watch and Neutrals. I would like to paint up a small Tully centric Stark force (30-40pts) featuring units/characters that I like from the books and/or show. Not sure if they would mesh well together as a united force and/or have any synergy. I would like them to both hit hard (Umbers) and have some resilience (Sworn Shields and Stalwart). Being fairly resistant to Morale/Panic checks due to Stalwart units is what I'm thinking of as an initial direction. As I read up on Stark tactics and attempt to learn about the Blackfish and how he plays (in all his forms), I though some veteran Stark players may have some hard fought battlefield lessons or wisdom to share. Can I make a fairly competitive list from the following? If there is an obvious improvement that stays close to my goals/theme, I'm open to any and all advice.

    Commanders/NCUs/Attachments:
    Brynden Tully (Any version, but preferrably as a Commander)
    Maege Mormont
    Brienne of Tarth (optional, but like Stalwart theme)
    Other character attachments/NCUs open to suggestion

    Units:
    Umber Berserkers
    Umber Great Axes
    Stark Outriders
    Tully Sworn Shield
    Other Units open to suggestion

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to avoid any obvious problems/issues with my initial plan. Thanks.

  2. #2

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    From what you want to be playing, you can absolutely make a competitive list.

    First of all, I'll say that the choices for units have got one great thing in common, they all want to be right in the thick of the fighting, though for different reasons. The Tully Sworn Shields are an amazing anvil unit, good defense saves and the ability to block hits from the front make them a very hard unit to move. Umber Berserkers are different from every other unit in that they're rolling more dice as they lose units, so you want them dug in and attacking or charging every round you can. The Umber Greataxes are my favorite unit to field and since they've come out I've never played a game without them, their Mighty Cleave is glorious against units with poor defense, but the Executioner's Fury is what will have you inviting charges, the ability to ignore defense saves entirely is absolutely game changing, especially when directed against units used to being nearly invincible, like the Bolton Flayed Men. Stark Outriders are very good, the ability to retreat when attacked is great, but I'll go over them more in a bit.

    For your commander, both versions of Brynden are good, and will serve you well, but my preference is for Outrider Commander because of his commander cards, and because you can keep a unit of Outriders in reserve and drop them onto the field turn 1, then have your NCU take the maneuver space on the tactics board, and BOOM, first turn charge from an enemy's flank and a threat in their deployment zone that your opponent will not be able to ignore, leaving you in a better position to advance the rest of your forces upfield. The Blackfish by contrast is about holding the line, his commander cards are more defensive in nature and he can restore a wound on a successful morale check, worth noting is that this is not an order, so it can be done as many times as you want, and given his Stalwart granting a +2 to morale checks, he's hard pressed to fail those tests. So which Commander you take will be determined by how you want to play the game.

    For NCUs and Attachments, I'd definitely recommend Catelyn Stark as an NCU, both because she was born a Tully (for your Tully theme) and because everyone always wants to be rolling as many dice as possible. If no one's hurt, I usually have her target the Umber Berserkers since she lets whoever she's influence roll their maximum attack dice, not their unharmed value, an important distinction. Maege can go with any unit, her ability is universal, and can really go anywhere. Brienne I'd put with the Greataxes since +2 dice on Executioner's Fury is ridiculous in damage output.

    I hope that all made sense.

  3. #3

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    THANK YOU Starkadia for your response & advice. I was beginning to think the North was dead. I'd written off Catelyn for my initial plans, but may reconsider. Have you (or anyone else) had any opinions or experience (good or bad) w Sansa, Arya, or Ned as NCUs (especially with the units I plan to field)? Ned seems really good for keeping your units topped off and at full strength, and Sansa and Arya both have powerful abilities (albeit only once per game). Really wish they could do their special actions 2-3 times per game, maybe on a 2+ or 3+ like Varys. I also lament that Brienne's ability has to designate an enemy unit before deployment. Makes it really easy to nullify, I think. Brienne might get bumped in favor of Bran & Hodor.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony4095 View Post
    THANK YOU Starkadia for your response & advice. I was beginning to think the North was dead. I'd written off Catelyn for my initial plans, but may reconsider. Have you (or anyone else) had any opinions or experience (good or bad) w Sansa, Arya, or Ned as NCUs (especially with the units I plan to field)? Ned seems really good for keeping your units topped off and at full strength, and Sansa and Arya both have powerful abilities (albeit only once per game). Really wish they could do their special actions 2-3 times per game, maybe on a 2+ or 3+ like Varys. I also lament that Brienne's ability has to designate an enemy unit before deployment. Makes it really easy to nullify, I think. Brienne might get bumped in favor of Bran & Hodor.
    I’m going to go on a limb and state that currently you can’t really go wrong with Starks units you mentioned as far as we found out. They are all great for the job they’re made for, and sort of “foolproof” with good morale.

    Brandyn Tully is quite the cockroach really. Both his versions are really hard to dislodge, one via tenacity, the other with speed and cunning.

    For the foot version of him, there’s a classic trick of using 2 units of Tully Sworn Shields, with the Blackfish and Maege Mormont as their respective attachments.Their goal is to move forward to tactical positions and engage the best the enemy can muster. They’ll tough it out. Then they would be supported by Stark Bowmen (one or two unit) who proceed to shoot into the melee. Given the 4+ morale of the Sworn Shields units,their capacity to take punishment like few other, and their attachment’s order triggering on morale checks from their own arrows, the volleys just improve the Tully’s “Shield Wall”.

    You do have to protect those bowmen though, which could be a liability in some situations. I’d support the force with Outriders if possible. It’s a medium cavalry but very quick and often able to push or delay units that would try to outflank the sworn shields.

    For the cavalry version of Brandyn Tully, I’d say that the Tully Cavaliers might change the whole game for him, as it’ll be possible to get a full mounted force. The Outriders are already good as stated above.

    As for NCUs I’d go with either Catelyn Tully or Eddard Stark. Catelyn is more popular, but considering the theme of outlasting enemies, Eddard’s order tokens can help hold against the odds for even longer. If you wish 2 NCU I’d go for Sansa, as getting the right tactic card with Brandyn Tully can save theday. You have to know exactly when to use it though.

    That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t hire Sworn Swords, Greataxes, Berserkers with Brandyn Tully either. Depending on the faction I’d face, these units can really push a lot of weight for their cost. The Berserkers are great vs Boltons and Lannisters, and the Greataxes would definitely have a field day against Free Folks (btw if you get greataxes, make sure you bring something to get the vulnerable condition on their target, then use Mighty Cleave for hilarity). Actually the Greataxes are one of the more threatening unit I see in the Starks army at the moment.


    Last but not least, the Sworn Swords are really good too, and flexible as you’re not forced to use Stark’s Fury. They can be used as a tag team with the Tully Sworn Shields much like hammer and anvil.

    The fun part with the Tully theme is that they are really resilient, which is not exactly the Stark’s usual strong point (they suffer from attrition with their own offense), and able to actually do damage too (unlike some Lannister units). In addition, so far Brandyn Tully is the only character in the game that we have 4 versions of (2 commanders, 2 attachments), so you can vary your force a lot while still keeping in theme.

    (Issues with the editor of this forum)
    Last edited by Oakwolf; 06-27-2019 at 07:47 AM.

  5. #5

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    I absolutely second the use of the Bowmen/Sworn Shields combo. It can be devastating for the opponent, and has earned their points in more battles than not. I like to use the Sworn Shields as the protection for the Bowmen. That way they have to fall into the trap set to get to the archers.

    Catelyn is fantastic if you also take Berserkers. Influence them until they get hurt, then shift to influencing the archers as they take damage.

    I know you want to use Brynden as the Commander, and I’m not sure who you’ll use to stick with your theme if you go this route, but the mounted attachment version with the heal on retreat coupled with the Outriders Free retreat order has possibly given my opponent more heartache than the Bowmen/Sworn Shields combo. And saved my bacon on many occasions. Charge in for the attack, get attacked back, retreat and heal while often being able to get better position for the next charge, wash, rinse, repeat. It usually forces the opponent to focus multiple attacks against them to overcome the healing, which allows your other units more freedom.

    The only other advice id give a new Stark player, which doesn’t fit here but I’ll say it anyway, just in case. Should you play armies that include Direwolves, don’t over extend them. They may look like they can take a hit, but they go down quick to lucky/bad rolls. Remember that they are support units.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlxRaven View Post

    I know you want to use Brynden as the Commander, and I’m not sure who you’ll use to stick with your theme if you go this route, but the mounted attachment version with the heal on retreat coupled with the Outriders Free retreat order has possibly given my opponent more heartache than the Bowmen/Sworn Shields combo. And saved my bacon on many occasions. Charge in for the attack, get attacked back, retreat and heal while often being able to get better position for the next charge, wash, rinse, repeat. It usually forces the opponent to focus multiple attacks against them to overcome the healing, which allows your other units more freedom.
    Oh god...yeah, the annoyance! I lost a siege game solely due to that awesome bastard. And you can use your NCU to add insult to injury with the Maneuvre/wealth zone. With Eddard they can heal on both retreat and the charge...

    The unit is pretty much impossible to kill unless a mistake occurs or the Stark player lets it happen due to other priorities.
    Last edited by Oakwolf; 06-26-2019 at 03:24 PM.

  7. #7

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    That's some great and obviously some hard-won advice. I like all versions of the Blackfish & cant wait to try them each out. I'm painting up my two units this coming weekend, as a matter of fact. I am very excited for the Tully Cavaliers to hit the shelves for the options and list diversity they'll provide.
    Do you guys ever find any of the Neutral NCUs more useful in a Stark list than the Stark ones? Varys & Littlefinger seem pretty powerful, but maybe not so much for what the Starks are trying to do??????

  8. #8

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    They are both very strong, with Varys being more popular due to his obvious effect. I'd say Littlefinger might be less used but it's simply a matter of practice. There are ways to create very nasty comboes with Littlefinger, like have him take the crown to block circei, then use the manoeuvre effect on your Outriders. That'll get them to charge. If they're attacked they can retreat for free, then use another NCU to claim the manoeuvre zone for a 2nd charge. That being said, the Starks are not short of great NCUs. All of them are good...which seems to be a running trend with this faction. If you're playing Howland Reed, i'd consider Arya Stark to get that "surprise" free maneuvre at the right time, which is key for the Crannogmen.

  9. #9

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    Good info, but I think the Littlefinger claiming a diff zone but using maneuver zone effect to trigger Rapid Charge was FAQed to not work like that anymore. I think I saw it in FAQ 1.4.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony4095 View Post
    Good info, but I think the Littlefinger claiming a diff zone but using maneuver zone effect to trigger Rapid Charge was FAQed to not work like that anymore. I think I saw it in FAQ 1.4.
    Quite correct for the Outriders's ability. Littlefingers still creates some unique combos like getting 2x the effect of a zone in the same turn.
    Last edited by Oakwolf; 07-10-2019 at 07:40 AM.

  11. #11

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    Yes, that possibility can be really intriguing, especially attack, maneuver, and wealth zones. I think I'll paint my Littlefinger up & try him out soon to see how it affects a game.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony4095 View Post
    Yes, that possibility can be really intriguing, especially attack, maneuver, and wealth zones. I think I'll paint my Littlefinger up & try him out soon to see how it affects a game.
    Let us know how this goes. The situation or opportunity for a "double-zone" combo is not that frequent or optimal, but it's there.

    You need to be sneaky in hiding your true intentions, as you need to leave the desired zone open for your 2nd NCU to claim it. When it works...it does provides a unique force multiplier. The more powerful the double-tag becomes, the more "obvious" it is for your opponent to block...however that could be your plan.
    Last edited by Oakwolf; 07-10-2019 at 01:23 PM.

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