Engaging multiple enemies vs. close battle line
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Thread: Engaging multiple enemies vs. close battle line

  1. #1

    Default Engaging multiple enemies vs. close battle line

    3 Units stand in close formation, at the same hight and flank edges touching each other.

    A unit charges from the front and alignes 100% (red arrow).
    As the charging unit also contacts the units left and right of the charged unit (touching with the left and right corner) "Engaging multiple enemies" applies.
    Because the side arc is 45° the infantry units left and right have more than 50% of their trays in the flank of the charging unit and will therefor align in the flank of the charging unit (black boxes).


    OR

    The corners of the trays touching each other are no contact and therefor "Engaging multiple enemies" doesn't apply




    How is it done correctly?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2

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    Thanks for posting this. As you've pointed out the crux of the issue stems from whether or not the 2 side trays are actually touching the charger on the corner tangent or not. If they are, RAW they would snap 50% to the chargers side if able.

  3. #3

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    To (try to) summarize rationales why the 1st argument seems to be most Rules As Written (RAW) interpretation:

    - Corners do not have facings, or they have two facings, but cannot say it has only one certain facing (other than the corner itself). This is basic geometrical definition of (two dimensional) corner. It could be said that both are at the same time touching flank and front (as it is the corner where flank and front meet), or that they are not touching any sides of each other at all (as it is only corner touching). But it cannot be said that they are exclusively touching only front, or only flank, due to nature of corner to corner connection.

    - Page 5 of rule book defines that even corner touch is an engagement:
    "ENGAGED: A unit is engaged when it is in contact with one or more enemy units." By clear english terminology, even corner contact is .. a contact. So even if Units are not touching by sides, but only corners, they are engaged.

    - By flanking rules (RAW), they are in each others flanks, due to tray not being square: Tray is wider (5.5") than it is long (4.5"), and LoS line is not from corner to corner, but it is in 45 degrees angle. Thus, majority of both Units is in flank for both Units by definition of flanking rules in Rule book.

    - by RAW, to push in above scenario 1” away would mean you break the rules as written, as rules state that you must first try to move it to 50% aligning, which is possible in above image as shown, including above rationales, so pushback by rules is out of the question. So, what remains? Only to follow the rules as written, and 50% align on flanks.
    Last edited by Fronx; 12-13-2019 at 05:41 AM. Reason: Removed repetition in corner case

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    ....... LoS line is not from corner to corner, but it is in 45 degrees angle. ......
    Is this somehow official, because rulebook p.12 only mentions corners and no 45 degrees??

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohun242 View Post
    Is this somehow official, because rulebook p.12 only mentions corners and no 45 degrees??

    Actually, rule book does not say that, but it says following (in page 12):
    "On each unit’s tray, there are notches used to denote its Line of Sight Arcs."
    Anyone can check the angle of the notches, which seems to be 45 degrees.
    To the discussed topic this does not actually matter that much (only a bit). Even if it was 50%-50% (both Front and Flank), it could be claimed that then the legal option must be chosen instead of the "illegal" (or, that attacker chooses). But. moot point, as that is not the case.

  6. #6

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    We have a tournament on saturday and would welcome a decision from CMON.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    To (try to) summarize rationales why the 1st argument seems to be most Rules As Written (RAW) interpretation:

    Tray is wider (5.5") than it is long (4.5"), and LoS line is not from corner to corner, but it is in 45 degrees angle. Thus, majority of both Units is in flank for both Units by definition of flanking rules in Rule book.
    Update on this regard: The front/side arcs are 45° only on cavalry and warmachine trays. The notches on infantry trays are aligned diagonally.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychopath View Post
    Update on this regard: The front/side arcs are 45° only on cavalry and warmachine trays. The notches on infantry trays are aligned diagonally.
    Good check, also checked my-self, and agree. The "center dot" is not in center though. So it affects that discussion also.

    But, this would be a separate topic: the matter does not change even if the situation is 50-50%, everything above (and the question) stays the same.

  9. #9

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    Psychopath’s move does not appear to be the best choice here.

    Upon contacting with the middle unit surely the best approach is to go 50:50 with another unit as this avoids at least 1 charge in the flank and forces the unengaged unit to try and charge (although they’re likely to make it).

    I see no reason why a charger should contact the middle unit and expect the defenders units to be pushed away.

    A lone charge into a battle line is rarely a good idea, which I think the question clarifies
    No easy dice role too difficult......

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joken View Post
    A lone charge into a battle line is rarely a good idea, which I think the question clarifies
    If the charging unit was (just for example, other options also apply) Warrior's Sons with few faith tokens, I would take that 3 unit tying Charge in a hearbeat, and consider it a smart move to tie 3 enemy units with my best defense save unit, preventing those units from charging anything else (before handling the said Warriors sons).

  11. #11

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    Upon contacting with the middle unit surely the best approach is to go 50:50 with another unit as this avoids at least 1 charge in the flank and forces the unengaged unit to try and charge (although they’re likely to make it).
    It depends greatly on the ruling. If the corner to corner contact is "not engeged" then the straightup charge is perfect for Berzerkers, KoCR etc. which kill units with one charge and then use surge forth to move backwards.
    If it is ruled as engaged it is good to pull the defender out of formation and for the defender to stop the charging unit from surge forth.

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