Savage Giants and Blocked hits.
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Thread: Savage Giants and Blocked hits.

  1. #1

    Default Savage Giants and Blocked hits.

    It is my understanding that anything that grants Blocked hits (Tully Sworn Shields etc) doesn't stop the wounds from the Savage Giant's attack. However reading Umber Great axes ability to circumnavigate saves it is worded differently, so is harder to explain/convince to people. The FAQ doesn't mention the interplay of the Savage Giant's attack and Blocked Hits. How can I explain this to people as it isn't worded very clearly, and it would be great to have something to direct people to in order to clear up the confusion.

  2. #2

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    Giants' Mighty Swing is triggered by a Hit being generated, which then replaces that Hit with the effect of causing direct Wounds. A Blocked Hit is still a Hit that was generated- blocking the Hit doesn't change that it was still generated, which is all Mighty Swing cares about.

    Executioner's Fury says it doesn't allow Defense Saves. Blocking Hits is not rolling a Defense Save.

  3. #3

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    I understand this, but it is not easy to explain to people as it is counter intuitive. The giant rolls to hit, causes a hit then does wounds, however the blocked hits part can quite easily be read as blocking the hit so not allowing the wounds to happen as the hit has been stopped, and thus not generated.

    Some people in my gaming group don't have English as their native tongue, so nuances may be being missed in the process.

    Is there a handy flow chart that helps to show how the attack process works?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by stonehorse View Post
    I understand this, but it is not easy to explain to people as it is counter intuitive. The giant rolls to hit, causes a hit then does wounds, however the blocked hits part can quite easily be read as blocking the hit so not allowing the wounds to happen as the hit has been stopped, and thus not generated.

    Some people in my gaming group don't have English as their native tongue, so nuances may be being missed in the process.

    Is there a handy flow chart that helps to show how the attack process works?
    Well in this situation you have people literally making up rules that do not exist in the book, so can't really help you there.

    Blocking a Hit does not negate the fact the Hit was generated. Saying that "blocking a Hit meant it wasn't generated" is not supported by anything in the rules. A Hit has to be generated to be Blocked or saved.

    The "chart" would be the steps outlined in the rule book: Roll to Hit, for each Hit Defender rolls a Defense Save, unsaved Hits become Wounds.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alliser Thorne View Post
    Well in this situation you have people literally making up rules that do not exist in the book, so can't really help you there.

    Blocking a Hit does not negate the fact the Hit was generated. Saying that "blocking a Hit meant it wasn't generated" is not supported by anything in the rules. A Hit has to be generated to be Blocked or saved.

    The "chart" would be the steps outlined in the rule book: Roll to Hit, for each Hit Defender rolls a Defense Save, unsaved Hits become Wounds.
    It isn't about making up rules, it is about understanding of the same word (hit) that has two different interactions. Having gone over the steps in the rules it isn't clear to players in my group, because again English isn't their native tongue and the same word is being used.

    You and I may not have any issue with understanding the rule interaction, but that isn't to say it is clear to some. Hopefully CMON add this into the next FAQ.

  6. #6

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    Point out to your friends the line "For each unblocked Hit, the defender suffers 1 Wound." on page 17 of the rulebook and the line "If this attack generates any Hits," from the Savage Giant's Might Swing ability. Note the absence of the qualifier "unblocked" in the giant's ability.

  7. #7

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    I hope this doesn't sound too insensitive. In my personal life, I try to be as multilingual as possible.

    But an issue with languages isn't what makes an FAQ. We want to avoid large and convoluted official documents such as FAQs, as to have a larger document actually causes more areas that people can find loopholes.

    It's when something doesn't make sense in the native language itself that further clarification is required.

    Now, there are cases where things have been poorly translated in the multi language versions. That's a completely separate issue, but still an issue. Sadly, as with anything, the original language should be treated as official. The rest defer to that.

    I work in a couple languages. The struggle is real.

  8. #8

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    While not always a perfect solution, I do try to find illustrative examples that might help explain a rule.

    For example, rolling attack dice could be equated to shooting your bow, thrusting with your halberd, or what have you. A success on the die means it has scored a hit. A success with the defense save means that the defender has prevented that hit from wounding, either with shield, a parrying weapon, etc.

    Giants are so strong, however, that a defender simply cannot stop a hit from doing damage--to the point that a defense save roll isn't even made.
    "I did warn you not to trust me." -Littlefinger

  9. #9

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    I agree with Ser Baelish that perhaps showing it from a different perspective could be helpful.

    Rolling a Hit means that physical contact was made.

    Rolling Defense checks to see if that physical contact hurt anyone.

    The giant’s ability basically says - “It’s a freaking GIANT!! If it hits you, it’s going to hurt no matter what!” All they need to do is make contact. Their superhuman strength does the rest.
    House - Ravenhurst
    Sigil - Black raven on a copper field, clutching paintbrushes
    Words - “We do not Highlight”

  10. #10

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    The key term here is "generate hits". Although I don't think it is defined in the rule book, it has been talked about at length by Shinnal on podcasts, and maybe even elsewhere in this forum, I'm not sure.

    -Essentially after you roll your attack, all dice that show a successful value are dice that have "generated hits".
    -After you've generated hits, you'd then go on to roll defense saves, or block with things like wealth of rock.
    -But with the giant, as long as you generate at least 1 hit, the target suffers d3 + X wounds, no matter how many of those hits are blocked.

    Funnily enough I believe the counter attack order can be used against a giant attack. After hits are generated, the defending unit will take the wounds, but they can still roll defense saves to see if any get bounced back to the giant. Usually wont do anything since giants only roll 1 die, but could occur with harma or the weeper.


    Side rant, I find it really annoying that giants and stone throwers work the exact same way, but they use different wording! Need to up the QC!

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