Walder Frey vs Builder Stone Thrower?
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Thread: Walder Frey vs Builder Stone Thrower?

  1. #1

    Default Walder Frey vs Builder Stone Thrower?

    Title says it all really, how much of an effect would Frey have on the Stone Throwers attacks?

  2. #2

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    Presuming Walder player is 1st player or controlling Crown: Everything from the text box labeled ”Stone Thrower” is removed, excluding the range (Range cannot be removed as per rulebook). Everything else (stats, Innate abiilities in the box with the heart icon) remain normal.

  3. #3

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    Hmmm not sure this will hold up. If it does nw just effectively lost a unit. Frey has become a must take..i hate him so will not use him but man is he popular.

  4. #4

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    Yeah, as Fronx noted, the 1.5 update clarified that anything other than the range of a weapon is not considered an innate ability and can be shut off. However, that doesn't mean it can't be fired.

    So while you'll now have to take terrain and other units into account, and your opponent will get defense saves, you can now fire it multiple times a round, target solo units and anything in long range or closer.

    Like a really, really expensive BB gun.
    "I did warn you not to trust me." -Littlefinger

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion=Heroes View Post
    Hmmm not sure this will hold up. If it does nw just effectively lost a unit. Frey has become a must take..i hate him so will not use him but man is he popular.
    Why would it not hold up? It's the exact same way it works on everything else.

  6. #6

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    what about its actual attack, the whole instead of hits roll d6

  7. #7

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    Walder is particularly unpleasant against Stone Throwers.
    Since he blanks all their abilities (except their range) their attack is just 1 dice, hitting on a 3+ that does 1 wound and allows a defense save.

    Waldo is a bit of an NPE NCU in my opinion, but then again the Stone Thrower can be equally bland to play against :P

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad3theimpaler View Post
    Why would it not hold up? It's the exact same way it works on everything else.
    If this is true than cav lose cav? So 1 wound and no free maneuver? If it turns everything blank than frey becomes the must ncu. I know one unit at time and only on half the game plus crown control but man it gets dumb.
    I just think we could use some clarity and guard rails for the power. I hate the stone thrower so kind of okay with it but just feels not well thought out.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion=Heroes View Post
    If this is true than cav lose cav? So 1 wound and no free maneuver? If it turns everything blank than frey becomes the must ncu. I know one unit at time and only on half the game plus crown control but man it gets dumb.
    I just think we could use some clarity and guard rails for the power. I hate the stone thrower so kind of okay with it but just feels not well thought out.
    Innate Abilties, the ones with the Heart Icon, cannot be removed by anything, period.

    Everything else printed on the card can be lost. This is all defined in the rulebook.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alliser Thorne View Post
    Innate Abilties, the ones with the Heart Icon, cannot be removed by anything, period.

    Everything else printed on the card can be lost. This is all defined in the rulebook.
    Yep, so in the context of the Stone Thrower, it would still have 6 wounds, would still be unable to retreat and charge, would still be unable to be given condition tokens, and would still automatically pass morale tests (since all of this is under the War Machine ability, which has the heart symbol)

    Basically, after being Walder'd (or affected by Tywin, or anything else that gets rid of abilities) it's card would look like this:
    Name:  nw-builder-stone-thrower.jpg
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  11. #11

  12. #12

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    Below isn't really rules discussion. Sorry for off-topic:

    Workarounds against Walder Frey as NW with Stone Thrower (but applies to any other Unit also):
    - In your second list (that you bring to the game as per rule book), have a list that does not have Stone Thrower. You get to see opponents both list with current rules, so you can estimate if Walder is likely to come or not. Don't bring Rock, when you see that opponent has Paper. Bring Scissors instead.
    - Negate Walder with Varys, or some other NCU nullifying means (Available in game modes like DwD and sometimes GoT. Latter workaround naturally cannot be the main method, as you cannot control the game modes always).
    - If opponent is not 1st player this turn, activate Stone Thrower as your 1st Unit before Walder, or block the Crown (unless opponent has means to get it anyway, like Joffrey NCU or Alester Florent, then do the forementioned).
    - If opponent will be 1st player next turn, build a situation in the battlefield where at the start of that round he/she does not want his first play to be NCU play (Walder), but something more pressing in the battlefield. Then activate Stone Thrower before opponent activates Walder.

    These are the main methods. Smaller options also exist, but are more situational.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion=Heroes View Post
    If this is true than cav lose cav? So 1 wound and no free maneuver? If it turns everything blank than frey becomes the must ncu. I know one unit at time and only on half the game plus crown control but man it gets dumb.
    I just think we could use some clarity and guard rails for the power. I hate the stone thrower so kind of okay with it but just feels not well thought out.
    No. Innate abilities (the ones with the heart symbol) are not lost. Everything else is.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fronx View Post
    Below isn't really rules discussion. Sorry for off-topic:

    Workarounds against Walder Frey as NW with Stone Thrower (but applies to any other Unit also):
    - In your second list (that you bring to the game as per rule book), have a list that does not have Stone Thrower. You get to see opponents both list with current rules, so you can estimate if Walder is likely to come or not. Don't bring Rock, when you see that opponent has Paper. Bring Scissors instead.
    - Negate Walder with Varys, or some other NCU nullifying means (Available in game modes like DwD and sometimes GoT. Latter workaround naturally cannot be the main method, as you cannot control the game modes always).
    - If opponent is not 1st player this turn, activate Stone Thrower as your 1st Unit before Walder, or block the Crown (unless opponent has means to get it anyway, like Joffrey NCU or Alester Florent, then do the forementioned).
    - If opponent will be 1st player next turn, build a situation in the battlefield where at the start of that round he/she does not want his first play to be NCU play (Walder), but something more pressing in the battlefield. Then activate Stone Thrower before opponent activates Walder.

    These are the main methods. Smaller options also exist, but are more situational.
    Thanks heaps that's really useful.

  15. #15

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    As noted, per rulebook, when a unit loses all Abilities, it loses all Abilities that are not Innate Abilities.
    Designer and Senior Developer
    A Song of Ice and Fire, Dark Age, Rum & Bones, World of SMOG: Rise of Moloch, Wrath of Kings, Xenoshyft

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