Using the original Flayed Men in the context of a Bolton Army - Page 2
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Thread: Using the original Flayed Men in the context of a Bolton Army

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kraken View Post
    I think the neutral faction is having a bit of an identity crisis right now. When it was just the Westeros-based factions, the Boltons being the only Neutrals felt fine (even if Flayed Men in particular were problematic for being just about better than every faction's equivalently priced and performing unit). Now, though, with the addition of Bloody Mummers and Stormcrows they're at risk of losing their identity as their own faction and are starting to have to worry about every Neutral unit added having a domino effect that ripples outward.

    While I personally am in favor of utterly removing the Neutral faction as a playable faction and limiting the access of the other Neutral units to specific factions (e.g. Stormcrows only with Targaryens, Bloody Mummers only with Lannisters, etc.), I don't think that's strictly fair to people who have invested in all-Neutral forces and would suddenly make a lot of players' existing Neutral units potentially worthless since they're not allowed in the faction anymore.

    I've been bouncing a couple ideas around in my head on how to tackle the issue of limiting the prevalence of Neutrals and making sure they still have their own flavor, and largely it revolves around giving Boltons their own faction since the aggressive, morale test-based playstyle and feel is pretty unique to Boltons and wouldn't step on any other faction's toes.

    For other Neutral units, I think something as simple as adding a mechanic similar to some of the other honor guard style units/the Loyalty mechanic would probably help even things out a bit and stop a proliferation of Neutral units everywhere in all sorts of situations. For example, you could only take Stormcrows with Daario in your army and doing so precluded you from taking Bloody Mummers. Neutral heroes could probably stay as-is, especially the NCUs since that can represent any number of things.

    Regardless, though, whatever ends up happening with Neutrals I hope Mummers are the last Neutral release we see. It'll be hard to balance so many units for the Neutral faction as a whole and the ripple effect of the Neutral roster being larger than most existing faction rosters. Plus, the more Neutrals that come out to make up for existing faction weaknesses the less those factions have an identity of their own so all in all I prefer that Neutrals be limited and start to either break off into separate sort of subfactions or become part of parent factions.
    Anyone could have seen a Neutral faction becoming a problem once you add more and more units from different lands. It would become the faction that is most versatile in selection and the more theme broken. Freys and Boltons with War Elephants.

    Once they release version 2 after a few more years that Greyjoys has been released, CMON should scrap the Neutral faction and make Freys and Boltons as minor factions, and continue with a themed loyalty/ally structure. GW's Middle Earth SBG has hit their allied matrix structure on the head.

  2. #22

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    Okay the best idea i have seen is a penalize for taking mercs in non neutral. It's a strange balancing act to be sure. I am not a fan of a merc/ neutral army and even less happy for everyone ( okay almost everyone) can take all mercs.
    Having said all this flayed men in boltons or not were broken version 1 too strong to be allowed to be taken in non Bolton armies in 2 and are not a horrible unit now. 8 attacks all the time and panic is so much better now and more predictable. On a charge you are almost guaranteed to panic the enemy unit so assuming not disorganized you get 7 hits and on a 4 plus armor save unit 3 to 4 dead and with panic 3 more dead so 6 models. Lannister knights charge same 7 hits and they will kill 5 the bad comes after the charge. Flayed men keep killing stuff and will get that shattered unit killed. Lannister knights will just sit there and be expensive guardsmen without a guard captain.
    Boltons were the great evil in the story, should just be northman with different leaders and were absolutely created to allow lannister and stark armies to have some flexibility in the early days. The merc army exists to stop the winging about why can't we play a merc army. I say make the FM 7 points or take them to edition 2 and make them bolton or neutral only.

  3. #23

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    I believe that making Boltons mercenaries - is a bad idea.
    They should be Starks with alternative card that allows Lannisters to take them (as Jaquen Hagar).

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenae View Post
    I believe that making Boltons mercenaries - is a bad idea.
    They should be Starks with alternative card that allows Lannisters to take them (as Jaquen Hagar).
    In a way i agree with you, they are starks bannermen after all. Stormcrows should be Targaryen only for all i know. But we need to find a solution with what we have now. The main issue right now is that Bolton units are being balanced for use by all faction, which is killing their theme and uniqueness...not to mention that the objective that "no neutral unit should be a better option than in-faction units for something that faction focuses on" means we'll end up with vanilla mercs.

    Vanilla mercs is fine...but not for Boltons, who are one of the major villains of the lore.

    The best solution imho is as follow:


    a) Keep the current model availability with the current stat card for the neutral units. Rename all bolton units with more generic names such "Cutthroats into "wildmen", Black Guards into "Palace Guards", Flayed Men into "Landless Knights" and Bolton Bastard Girls as "War Dog Handlers".

    b) Then produce a Bolton Tactic deck, and unit cards as it's own mini-faction...balanced for its own theme.


    That means no one loose anything. If you bought Bolton units as mercenaries, you'll still get to use the models as such, but if you really want to play House Bolton, then you can and what is on the table will represent that, not a stale collection of rules made for all factions to pick.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakwolf View Post
    In a way i agree with you, they are starks bannermen after all. Stormcrows should be Targaryen only for all i know. But we need to find a solution with what we have now. The main issue right now is that Bolton units are being balanced for use by all faction, which is killing their theme and uniqueness...not to mention that the objective that "no neutral unit should be a better option than in-faction units for something that faction focuses on" means we'll end up with vanilla mercs.

    Vanilla mercs is fine...but not for Boltons, who are one of the major villains of the lore.

    The best solution imho is as follow:


    a) Keep the current model availability with the current stat card for the neutral units. Rename all bolton units with more generic names such "Cutthroats into "wildmen", Black Guards into "Palace Guards", Flayed Men into "Landless Knights" and Bolton Bastard Girls as "War Dog Handlers".

    b) Then produce a Bolton Tactic deck, and unit cards as it's own mini-faction...balanced for its own theme.


    That means no one loose anything. If you bought Bolton units as mercenaries, you'll still get to use the models as such, but if you really want to play House Bolton, then you can and what is on the table will represent that, not a stale collection of rules made for all factions to pick.
    I think that is a really good idea. I'd be totally fine with Boltons getting unique faction cards when they are not being used as mercs.

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